What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Angelo Santino
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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B. wrote:Masseria's quick rise isn't that strange when you consider Joe Bonanno and Al Capone rose almost as quickly and there are other examples after that. Rarely do you hear of seniority being an issue. Some of the old timers had an issue with Angelo Bruno's rise from soldier to boss which happened somewhere between seven to nine years, but earlier and more powerful bosses rose faster without issue.

What sets Masseria apart to me is that he rose that quickly to become boss of a seemingly new family. It makes you wonder what the circumstances were for some other families' creation and first boss. Bootlegging wealth was definitely a big part of Masseria's rise, but surely there was a lot more at play we'll never know about both his rise and the reasons for other families getting created. You have to wonder too if the earliest mafiosi in America were largely independent and affiliated strictly with their original Sicilian family, or if the mafia immediately began installing bosses in the US once the first mafiosi came here.
It wasn't so much a new family as much as it was a split of an already previously existing one. It wasn't like Morello/Masseria/Yale didn't have a base to start with, a base which was entrenched already in E Harlem and the Lower East Side. Same goes for Reina with his loyalists in E Harlem and the Bronx. Some of these members on both sides were already in NY 20-30 years. It just allowed for both groups to recoup what they lost with Morello/Masseria recruiting mainlanders and Reina recruiting Palermitan Americans.

As far as the early groups formations and their affiliations go, the mafia wasn't as capitalism centered then. Someone leaving Palermo to become a player in the new world wasn't seen as losing an "earner" but gaining a connection in America. And given that the Palermitan mafia was connected to the citrus industry, having these new world connections allowed for further money making opportunities. Many of the early American Mafiosi from Palermo were fruit dealers, wine sellers as well as other citrus related fields. As more and more Sicilians "took over" the lower French quarter from previous Italian immigrants, it made sense to have a Representative which would be in contact with Representatives in Sicily. Today we call them bosses. But the way communication flowed was by way of letters. If a mafioso moved from Palermo to New Orleans and wished to be active with the mafiosi there, a letter would have to be sent from his representative in Sicily to the rep in New Orleans to confirm that so and so is a member in good standing and to "take him into the house." Now let's say a member came from Sciacca or Trapani to Palermitan dominated New Orleans, he would be afforded the same respect as a Palermitan. In most of the US cities these families were heterogenius but again, Families weren't meant to be gargantuan and if a group got too large they would split into two groups amicably. It happened in Palermo in 1910 and NY in 1912.

But then, not to contradict myself, 1912 NY was the last time there was an agreed upon split and that was because the three families had no control over immigration and as more and more mafiosi came into the new world these groups got beefed up to numbers unheard of in Sicily. And given that Palermo was the port of exit as well as the largest city, more members came from there than anywhere else and if landing in NY would have went with the Lupo/D'Aquila Palermitan mob which explains why it split into two. I would imagine that the Gambinos outnumbered the Gen/Luc and Bonannos 2 to 1. And the mafia tries to prevent internal monopolies.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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B. wrote:Masseria's quick rise isn't that strange when you consider Joe Bonanno and Al Capone rose almost as quickly and there are other examples after that. Rarely do you hear of seniority being an issue. Some of the old timers had an issue with Angelo Bruno's rise from soldier to boss which happened somewhere between seven to nine years, but earlier and more powerful bosses rose faster without issue.

What sets Masseria apart to me is that he rose that quickly to become boss of a seemingly new family. It makes you wonder what the circumstances were for some other families' creation and first boss. Bootlegging wealth was definitely a big part of Masseria's rise, but surely there was a lot more at play we'll never know about both his rise and the reasons for other families getting created. You have to wonder too if the earliest mafiosi in America were largely independent and affiliated strictly with their original Sicilian family, or if the mafia immediately began installing bosses in the US once the first mafiosi came here.
This is another area of speculation. We don't know if DiMatteo was correctly understood when he said that Masseria was brought in in 1921 (or 23), or was just made a boss then. It's possible he could have been made earlier, either with Schiro or the Morellos, and if so, he could have been a soldier or a capodecina. We just don't know. I do seem to recall a case where someone was made somewhere and almost immediately became a boss. Could have been Philadelphia or New England. Again, not sure that was the case with Masseria since we have insufficient information.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Antiliar wrote:
B. wrote:Masseria's quick rise isn't that strange when you consider Joe Bonanno and Al Capone rose almost as quickly and there are other examples after that. Rarely do you hear of seniority being an issue. Some of the old timers had an issue with Angelo Bruno's rise from soldier to boss which happened somewhere between seven to nine years, but earlier and more powerful bosses rose faster without issue.

What sets Masseria apart to me is that he rose that quickly to become boss of a seemingly new family. It makes you wonder what the circumstances were for some other families' creation and first boss. Bootlegging wealth was definitely a big part of Masseria's rise, but surely there was a lot more at play we'll never know about both his rise and the reasons for other families getting created. You have to wonder too if the earliest mafiosi in America were largely independent and affiliated strictly with their original Sicilian family, or if the mafia immediately began installing bosses in the US once the first mafiosi came here.
This is another area of speculation. We don't know if DiMatteo was correctly understood when he said that Masseria was brought in in 1921 (or 23), or was just made a boss then. It's possible he could have been made earlier, either with Schiro or the Morellos, and if so, he could have been a soldier or a capodecina. We just don't know. I do seem to recall a case where someone was made somewhere and almost immediately became a boss. Could have been Philadelphia or New England. Again, not sure that was the case with Masseria since we have insufficient information.
While not a 100% black and white thing, given that the Masserias came from Menfi in Agrigento, that should have put him in with the Sciaccatani network of E 39th and Elizabeth. Licata is not that far from the other cities that the Sciaccatani came from and Calogero Masseria fell in with the Lonardos of Licata in Cleveland. And for B., Ribera is nestled in this area as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Sciacca ... 581785!3e0

The Lower East Side is a mess. Guilt by association only goes so far. In the 1920's one of the highest ranking Bonanno members - Benny Gallo - was in partnership with Morello member Antonio Cecala from the 1910 counterfeiting trial. Giuseppe Fontana (the 1910 one from Villabate killed in 1913, not the 1900 one from Resuttana) had some share in Morello's Ignazio Florio Association of Corleone. Members like to congregate and form alliances and when the wars of 1913, 1921 and 1931 occurred, I wonder the impact it had on those cross-family member alliances in neighborhoods like James St, E13th or Elizabeth. There were murders there to be sure, I just imagine some of them wanted nothing to do with it. Clemente seems to have been one example, he was known but kept a safe distance from the politics it appears.

As for instant elevations:
Al Capone - Associate to Gen Capo to Chicago Boss
Yale - associate to capo (most likely)
Pellegrino - associate to capo (most likely)
Fresolone - associate to capo (according to him)
Merlino/Natale - soldier to under/boss

Most of these rapid/instant promotions came at times of unrest.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Chris Christie wrote: It wasn't so much a new family as much as it was a split of an already previously existing one. It wasn't like Morello/Masseria/Yale didn't have a base to start with, a base which was entrenched already in E Harlem and the Lower East Side. Same goes for Reina with his loyalists in E Harlem and the Bronx. Some of these members on both sides were already in NY 20-30 years. It just allowed for both groups to recoup what they lost with Morello/Masseria recruiting mainlanders and Reina recruiting Palermitan Americans.

As far as the early groups formations and their affiliations go, the mafia wasn't as capitalism centered then. Someone leaving Palermo to become a player in the new world wasn't seen as losing an "earner" but gaining a connection in America. And given that the Palermitan mafia was connected to the citrus industry, having these new world connections allowed for further money making opportunities. Many of the early American Mafiosi from Palermo were fruit dealers, wine sellers as well as other citrus related fields. As more and more Sicilians "took over" the lower French quarter from previous Italian immigrants, it made sense to have a Representative which would be in contact with Representatives in Sicily. Today we call them bosses. But the way communication flowed was by way of letters. If a mafioso moved from Palermo to New Orleans and wished to be active with the mafiosi there, a letter would have to be sent from his representative in Sicily to the rep in New Orleans to confirm that so and so is a member in good standing and to "take him into the house." Now let's say a member came from Sciacca or Trapani to Palermitan dominated New Orleans, he would be afforded the same respect as a Palermitan. In most of the US cities these families were heterogenius but again, Families weren't meant to be gargantuan and if a group got too large they would split into two groups amicably. It happened in Palermo in 1910 and NY in 1912.

But then, not to contradict myself, 1912 NY was the last time there was an agreed upon split and that was because the three families had no control over immigration and as more and more mafiosi came into the new world these groups got beefed up to numbers unheard of in Sicily. And given that Palermo was the port of exit as well as the largest city, more members came from there than anywhere else and if landing in NY would have went with the Lupo/D'Aquila Palermitan mob which explains why it split into two. I would imagine that the Gambinos outnumbered the Gen/Luc and Bonannos 2 to 1. And the mafia tries to prevent internal monopolies.
I guess I have a hard time accepting the idea of the Masseria family as a true split without more info. I could understand it if ~half the known membership had been confirmed members of the Corleonesi family, but it doesn't sound that way. It sounds like only the remnants of the Morello faction, who were a minority of the Corleonesi family by the early 1920s and possibly no longer recognized as members of that family, were confirmed from the Corleonesi. Like you said, Morello/Masseria/Yale had established powerbases so it's not like the family came out of thin air, but as far as we know these were distinct powerbases so the family was more like an amalgamation of separate groups (maybe this is where the "combination" comes in) rather than one that directly split off from another. It's mostly just splitting hairs and there are too many unknowns to say for sure, plus you've done original research on all this and I'm just interpreting the research of others, that's just how I interpret it.

What you said about immigration and the creation of the Mineo(Colombo) family makes more sense to me based on what you guys have shared about Mineo's apparent status in Sicily, his rivalry with D'Aquila, and the longterm crossover between the Gambino/Colombos as strictly Sicilian (and to a slightly lesser extent Palermitani) groups with traceable relationships overseas. That said, is there specific information about this split, or just circumstantial reason to believe Mineo's members split off from D'Aquila? I guess that also raises another question about immigration -- did mafiosi have to directly link themselves to the local boss/family, or was it possible to operate much like the zips did a few decades later, where they deferred to the US bosses and usually maintained some kind of affiliation (i.e. Naimo = Lucchese, Ganci = Bonanno, Rosario Gambino = Gambino, etc.) but were in actuality independents whose loyalty was formally overseas? I know members were recommended to local bosses when they moved, but I've never seen anything stating that it was a requirement... in most cases it would be beneficial to the member, but was it mandatory? This probably can't be answered but it could tell us something about the way that families like Mineo's were formed... i.e. there were Sicilian mafiosi living in NYC with only informal affiliations in the US who then became formally aligned under Mineo for various reasons along with members who DID transfer from D'Aquila.

Semi-related to this general topic. but along with the Jewish gangsters, two of the other killers in the Maranzano hit were said to be from the "Newark mob". Would be curious if anything else is out there about this. Stefano Bedami was seemingly a Maranzano supporter and the important Newark members Monaco and Russo were killed following Maranzano, so you have to wonder what their true role was in all of this.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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At one point after Morello was killed, Steve Rannelli took Valachi and some other future Lucchese members to stay on a farm near Livingston Manor owned by a guy named Tom. Anyone know who this guy may have been? EDIT: Nevermind, he is later ID'd as Tom Gagliano.

Just to show you more about Valachi's understanding of things, when he was first told about the murders of Morello and Pinzolo, Rannelli said that "we" committed the murders and Valachi didn't understand why he would say "we", so Rannelli explained that it didn't matter who did the killing because "we are all responsible." More evidence that Valachi had a pretty steep learning curve when it came to understanding the way the mafia operates.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Good stuff guys. Speaking of Steve Rannelli does anyone have more info on him? He must have been pretty high up since Bonanno mentioned him with Gagliano, Lucchese and DicArlo as the top guys in the Reina family.


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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Pogo The Clown wrote:Good stuff guys. Speaking of Steve Rannelli does anyone have more info on him? He must have been pretty high up since Bonanno mentioned him with Gagliano, Lucchese and DicArlo as the top guys in the Reina family.


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As far as I know he was an important soldier who was helping organize some of the murders and recruiting associates. Maybe he was more if Bonanno mentioned him, though. He was around Valachi's age and according to Limey's site came to the US from Palermo, related to the Riccobonos (Gambino) by marriage. Had opposed Luciano after Maranzano's death but wasn't killed until the mid-1930s so the exact reason is unclear.

Valachi mentioned Joe Profaci being at the Bronx apartment before the Mineo hit and says Profaci gave him info on the history of the conflict. Some people, including Bonanno I believe, have questioned this... Profaci was supposed to be secretly on the side of Maranzano but publicly neutral, and some have said him being a boss makes it unlikely that he would be hanging with a hit squad in some apartment. Well thanks to articles like CC/Antiliar's, I think we can say Profaci was not a boss at this time and that makes Profaci's supposed visit more interesting. Maranzano had a number of mid-to-upper level allies secretly operating in other families, so seems Profaci was potentially one of these as well under DiBella.

Because it looks like Mineo was the former boss of what would become the Profaci family, this could be a reason Profaci showed up at the scene of this hit. Masseria was the main target, but Mineo was also up there and ended up being the main target of this hit due to circumstance. Could Profaci have been there for reasons related to this? Probably not, but an idea.

Personally I believe Valachi when he says Profaci was there. Profaci was a major figure during Valachi's whole mob career so hard to mistake, and from what he says it sounds like Profaci was at the apartment for a significant amount of time and had a lot to say while he was there.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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B. wrote:I guess I have a hard time accepting the idea of the Masseria family as a true split without more info. I could understand it if ~half the known membership had been confirmed members of the Corleonesi family, but it doesn't sound that way. It sounds like only the remnants of the Morello faction, who were a minority of the Corleonesi family by the early 1920s and possibly no longer recognized as members of that family, were confirmed from the Corleonesi. Like you said, Morello/Masseria/Yale had established powerbases so it's not like the family came out of thin air, but as far as we know these were distinct powerbases so the family was more like an amalgamation of separate groups (maybe this is where the "combination" comes in) rather than one that directly split off from another. It's mostly just splitting hairs and there are too many unknowns to say for sure, plus you've done original research on all this and I'm just interpreting the research of others, that's just how I interpret it.
There's further evidence that suggests Morello's loyalists extended beyond the Terranovas and if Luciano was made in 1917, it would have been under the old boss Loiacano and he went with Morello-Masseria. According to Agent Flynn he specifically stated Loiacano's murder caused a split in the group between those loyal to Morello and those loyal to Loiacano. I can't furnish a list of members and say it was split 30/70 or 50/50. I do have a few names of people that started in Harlem under Morello and were with the Genoveses in the 1920's on, same with some who went Lucchese. The power base of the Corleonesi was East Harlem and Lower Manhattan was the same for the Genovese 3 decades later. The Bronx was a later extension as people left NYC for the Bronx starting in the 1910's. Another subgroup under Morello since the 1900's was Bagheria and that's where Dominick Didato was from. He was killed in the 1930's because Genovese considered him a threat to his leadership following Luciano's incarceration. If the Morello-Terranovas lost Harlem and the Lower East Side and instead the Luccheses were more dominant there I'd be more inclined to think they were a rebel branch off but the Terranovas ran Harlem from 1900 to 1930 and then eventually Coppola took over that crew. Same for the Lower East side.

The Combination was reference to the mainlanders who were brought into the Genoveses.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Chris Christie wrote:
B. wrote:I guess I have a hard time accepting the idea of the Masseria family as a true split without more info. I could understand it if ~half the known membership had been confirmed members of the Corleonesi family, but it doesn't sound that way. It sounds like only the remnants of the Morello faction, who were a minority of the Corleonesi family by the early 1920s and possibly no longer recognized as members of that family, were confirmed from the Corleonesi. Like you said, Morello/Masseria/Yale had established powerbases so it's not like the family came out of thin air, but as far as we know these were distinct powerbases so the family was more like an amalgamation of separate groups (maybe this is where the "combination" comes in) rather than one that directly split off from another. It's mostly just splitting hairs and there are too many unknowns to say for sure, plus you've done original research on all this and I'm just interpreting the research of others, that's just how I interpret it.
There's further evidence that suggests Morello's loyalists extended beyond the Terranovas and if Luciano was made in 1917, it would have been under the old boss Loiacano and he went with Morello-Masseria. According to Agent Flynn he specifically stated Loiacano's murder caused a split in the group between those loyal to Morello and those loyal to Loiacano. I can't furnish a list of members and say it was split 30/70 or 50/50. I do have a few names of people that started in Harlem under Morello and were with the Genoveses in the 1920's on, same with some who went Lucchese. The power base of the Corleonesi was East Harlem and Lower Manhattan was the same for the Genovese 3 decades later. The Bronx was a later extension as people left NYC for the Bronx starting in the 1910's. Another subgroup under Morello since the 1900's was Bagheria and that's where Dominick Didato was from. He was killed in the 1930's because Genovese considered him a threat to his leadership following Luciano's incarceration. If the Morello-Terranovas lost Harlem and the Lower East Side and instead the Luccheses were more dominant there I'd be more inclined to think they were a rebel branch off but the Terranovas ran Harlem from 1900 to 1930 and then eventually Coppola took over that crew. Same for the Lower East side.

The Combination was reference to the mainlanders who were brought into the Genoveses.
Thanks for that response. I'm def starting to see why you refer to it as more of a split now. I hadn't really thought of the role territory might play in all of this.

For the Combination, I know he referred to it when discussing bringing mainlanders in, but there wasn't much else said so I thought it could have been in relation to the group coming together as a whole, since the time period it's referring to coincides with the time period Masseria became boss.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Good stuff guy's. What do you make of the interview Frank Galluccio (the guy who cut Capone) gave that shows that Masseria was a Boss of a group in 1917 with Luciano as a top member?


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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Pogo The Clown wrote:Good stuff guy's. What do you make of the interview Frank Galluccio (the guy who cut Capone) gave that shows that Masseria was a Boss of a group in 1917 with Luciano as a top member?


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Did that exist? I thought that was a Giacamo Vicari creation.

If Morello/Masseria and the Terranovas were wiped out, I imagine the remaining loyalists would have been given the option to fall in line under Reina or leave and there never would have been a Genovese Family. As for why Morello never resumed his mantle as boss, perhaps that was the agreement all parties came to in 1924 as a penalty for killing a boss (Loiacano) without the General Assembly's OK. And Masseria, as early as 1920 was described by either DiMatteo or Clemente as a "direct Lieutenant" of Morello. But remember, Morello was incarcerated for 10 years and the gap between his time on the street and when he traveled to Sicily to iron out the D'Aquila fued was 16 months. Obviously in that time Masseria must have made quite an impression.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Yeah it existed. I couldn't find the interview but here is a piece that describes the events.



https://smileandgun.wordpress.com/2015/ ... ous-scars/

But the story doesn’t end there. A few days later, Galluccio heard that some “cut-up bruiser” was out looking for him, saying he was part of “Yale’s crew.”29 Galluccio wasn’t too worried at first. As a low-level “spear-carrier in the Genovese crime family,” he had his own underworld connections.30 But when some “heavy hitters” from Yale’s gang came around to his favorite pool hall to ask where he lived, Galluccio figured he needed some extra help.31—so he went to visit his “friend from the East Side,” a small-time hood named Albert Alterio.


Alterio took Galluccio to see Giuseppe “Joe the Boss” Masseria and Charles “Lucky” Luciano to discuss the problem. After listening to his story, both crime bosses “agreed [that] nobody should insult another man in front of his own family and get away with it.”33 Luciano proposed a sit-down between himself, Joe, Yale, Galluccio and Capone at the Harvard Inn to sort things out. Once everyone showed up, the elder gangsters decreed that no more blood would be spilled on either side. There are many different stories about what exactly went down at this meeting, but as Galluccio remembers it, “Capone was ordered…not to look for revenge, and I was ordered to apologize.”34 Galluccio did so readily, especially once he got a good look at Al’s new scars: “…the look of the cuts on his face kind of shook me up, because I was really sorry for what I had done to him.”35 Later on Al apologized to Galluccio directly, admitting that he “was wrong when he insulted [Lena] in public."

Here is part of a book that goes further into detail on the sit down. It is from that guy Balsamo so who knows if it's accurate but he supsidly did know Galluccio and interviewed him in the 60s.


https://books.google.com/books?id=1_csA ... ia&f=false
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Valachi tells one story about Buster Domingo being sent out of town by Maranzano to kill two anti-Maranzano guys. Domingo requested Valachi go with him, but Maranzano instead partnered him with someone else. I guess the two other guys were led into a trap on the belief that Domingo and his partner were turning against Maranzano ans when they realized it was a trip they pleaded for their lives, saying they had children, were only following orders etc. and if Domingo let them go they would disappear and he could say he killed them. Domingo wanted to let them go, but killed them because he couldn't trust his partner to go along with the story when they got back. He wished Valachi had been with him because they could have let the guys go.

Strange story, curious where "out of town" was and who the victims and Domingo's partner were.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Just to add to Valachi's connections to the Gaglianos/Luccheses even after he joined the Genovese family, he tells a story in the Real Thing about a sitdown for something he had done that was attended by Tom Gagliano and Tony Bender at Duke's in Ft. Lee. He doesn't recall what it was about, but says that after it was over Tom Gagliano told Bender that he should watch how he treats Valachi because "we are watching over Joe" and Bender won't get away with trying to "pull anything" on Valachi. Bender claimed he was treating Valachi well, and Gagliano said "I know" but to "be careful." Valachi goes on to say that after Gagliano died he (Valachi) was "in trouble" and that he has tears in his eyes just writing about Gagliano.

Didn't realize he had stayed that close to Gagliano personally, but given that it was Gagliano who was closest to the Reinas maybe he took a personal interest in Valachi's well-being.
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Re: What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

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Interesting. This is all new to me. I don't know much about Frank Galluccio other than that GV claimed he said this, this, this and that and it was frustrating because we couldn't confirm it.

One informant in 1920 called Yale the lieutenant of Lupo (who was in prison since 1910 and seeing he had yet to be released I wondered how they could have ever met.)

I learned something new today. Awesome.
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