Beliefs with no evidence

[CabriniGreen]

I actually have a good one.

I think the real wealth in the Sicilian Mafia might be concentrated in a few powerful surnames.

I don't think they HOLD a lot of ACTUAL liquidity.

I think they control and or co-op businessmen who operate within territory they reside in. But I don't know if they possess billions, or rather.... this wealth is not distributed in a homogeneous way amongst the families.

[Brovelli]

I have deep down suspicions that Cefalu isn't the official and hasn't been for 10plus years (don't start with your Pete Gotti crap)

Brain just refuses to accept that a BOSS of one of the five could be unindicted for what, 15/20 years and free on the streets having final say.

I think John Gambino WAS the boss. Cali and now Mannino.

Now hit me with you best Barney is da boss and unindicted retorts...

Do we know where the claim cefalu is boss came from? Is that fbi or did a rat confirm it? I personally lean towards he is the boss and conceals himself behind the others but maybe I give too much credit lol. Pennisi spoke as if frank cali was always thought of as leader of the gambinos when he was a member. Regardless though whoever boss is of both gambino and Genovese families there have been no indicted bosses for 10 years + whoever it is!

The feds identified him as the boss a decade ago.

Thank you

[CabriniGreen]

One more....

Benny Squint being the boss was the worst kept secret in the mafia. Everyone knew.

[JakeTheSnake630]

These ones might be foregone conclusions to most but-

Guys like Kevin Weeks, Johnny Martorano, maybe even guys like Jimmy Mantville and Paul Moore were completely aware of Whitey giving info to the FBI. They have admitted to knowing about Whitey's relationship with Connolly, I believe they just assumed that when the indictments came they would all be shielded.

Joe Mac definitely killed Jimmy Simms. Simms had been saying Mac was unstable b/c of his drinking and did not want to do anymore work with him. They had some sort of falling out and Mac killed him. However, I believe Joe was sober when he killed Simms because Simms body was never found.

[Hired_Goonz]

These ones might be foregone conclusions to most but-

Guys like Kevin Weeks, Johnny Martorano, maybe even guys like Jimmy Mantville and Paul Moore were completely aware of Whitey giving info to the FBI. They have admitted to knowing about Whitey's relationship with Connolly, I believe they just assumed that when the indictments came they would all be shielded.

Joe Mac definitely killed Jimmy Simms. Simms had been saying Mac was unstable b/c of his drinking and did not want to do anymore work with him. They had some sort of falling out and Mac killed him. However, I believe Joe was sober when he killed Simms because Simms body was never found.

Yea reading between the lines of Martorano's book it's so obvious that he knew what the deal was. Flemmi gets bail after being on the lam for blowing up a lawyer where his codefendant got 30 years and he pretends that he thought Stevie just got "lucky"? Think about the horse racing case for a second. Martorano claims that he believed that Connolly as a corrupt agent on their payroll kept Bulger and Flemmi out of the case - how the FUCK would he be able to swing that with his superiors unless those 2 guys were informants? It's ridiculous. Then Johnny himself goes on the run for like 18 years to avoid this chickenshit case? Johnny never noticed that Whitey and Stevie never did any time in 30 years despite being so active? The Boston Globe outs Bulger as an informant and Martorano seriously is convinced that it's nothing but a smear job on Whitey's brother? Gimme a break.

Johnny knew exactly why he and his partners had lived such a charmed criminal life and when the time came he made a sweetheart deal. Can't knock the hustle, but it's insulting to our intelligence to pretend that he didn't find out until 96 or whatever it was when it came out in court.

[JakeTheSnake630]

100% Well said HG

[Amershire_Ed]

There is an old saying that Vegas was better and more fun when the mob was in charge. In that same token, I think if you gave truth serum to law enforcement officials in the tri state area—specifically ones that worked organized crime any time within the last 40 years—they’d tell you they preferred it when a centralized organization like the mafia was essentially the ruling body of the underworld. And while the “dis-organized” crime that has arisen since is easier to prosecute and investigate, it’s harder to contain.

There was a major heroin dealer from DC in the 70s and 80s named Michael “Fray” Salters. When he was top dog in the city, he kept the violence at a minimum. Not just with his own crew but with the other crews as well. The Feds and DC Metro police actively chose to go after his rivals because they knew if Salters was killed or taken off the street, the violence would explode. And that’s exactly what happened. He got killed, crack hit, and DC became the murder capital.

[Boatdrinks]

I do not trust Nick Gentile!

[B.]

There is a social club in South Philly called Palizzi Social club, there is a video on YT about it, that originally opened in 1918 for italians from a certain town (Vasto in/near Abbruzzo). After seeing this, I thought it could possibly be one of the early "different" Families that Harry Riccobene talked about.

Good info. Philly had one of the largest Abruzzesi populations which is why we see so many of them in that Family.

They definitely wouldn't have had their own Family early on, though. Celeste Morello thought the early Families were divided between the Belmontesi, Caccamesi, Castrogiovannesi, and the Campobellesi, all Western Sicilians, and I suspect that's fairly accurate. Less confident about the guys from Campobello di Mazzara as there were fewer (known) members from there than the other three towns but who knows.

Very possible there were early Abruzzesi in Philly affiliated with the Camorra though by the 1920s when Philly had one Family we have guys like Marco Reginelli named by Rocco Scafidi as a member, who was given the names of 1920s members from his brother. If any guys from Abruzzo were made before that it would have been with one of the Sicilian groups, not a separate Abruzzese Family.

[Wiseguy]

I actually have a good one.

I think the real wealth in the Sicilian Mafia might be concentrated in a few powerful surnames.

I don't think they HOLD a lot of ACTUAL liquidity.

I think they control and or co-op businessmen who operate within territory they reside in. But I don't know if they possess billions, or rather.... this wealth is not distributed in a homogeneous way amongst the families.

That's interesting. Any particular reason for the theory? Specifically the wealth being concentrated in a few families.

There is an old saying that Vegas was better and more fun when the mob was in charge. In that same token, I think if you gave truth serum to law enforcement officials in the tri state area—specifically ones that worked organized crime any time within the last 40 years—they’d tell you they preferred it when a centralized organization like the mafia was essentially the ruling body of the underworld. And while the “dis-organized” crime that has arisen since is easier to prosecute and investigate, it’s harder to contain.

There was a major heroin dealer from DC in the 70s and 80s named Michael “Fray” Salters. When he was top dog in the city, he kept the violence at a minimum. Not just with his own crew but with the other crews as well. The Feds and DC Metro police actively chose to go after his rivals because they knew if Salters was killed or taken off the street, the violence would explode. And that’s exactly what happened. He got killed, crack hit, and DC became the murder capital.

Medellin refers to a time when one group controlled every aspect of the drug trade, providing a measure of order that we could control.

[jmack]

There is an old saying that Vegas was better and more fun when the mob was in charge. In that same token, I think if you gave truth serum to law enforcement officials in the tri state area—specifically ones that worked organized crime any time within the last 40 years—they’d tell you they preferred it when a centralized organization like the mafia was essentially the ruling body of the underworld. And while the “dis-organized” crime that has arisen since is easier to prosecute and investigate, it’s harder to contain.

There was a major heroin dealer from DC in the 70s and 80s named Michael “Fray” Salters. When he was top dog in the city, he kept the violence at a minimum. Not just with his own crew but with the other crews as well. The Feds and DC Metro police actively chose to go after his rivals because they knew if Salters was killed or taken off the street, the violence would explode. And that’s exactly what happened. He got killed, crack hit, and DC became the murder capital.

Wasn’t it alleged that Alpo paid to have him killed? I think it was in Alpo and Wayne Perry’s indictment, yet they were never charged with it. I seem to recall that both Alpo and Perry admitted it during interviews. Alpo really was a piece of shit.

[CabriniGreen]

One more....

Benny Squint being the boss was the worst kept secret in the mafia. Everyone knew.

I actually wanna make a clarification here.

I think the secret part of Lombardo's tenure as Boss was the fact he had a stroke. I think THAT was the big secret, NOT that he was calling shots.

Life Magazine laid out the whole Genovese succesion, with Lombardo as the 1st name mentioned in an issue in 1969.

[davidf1989]

These ones might be foregone conclusions to most but-

Guys like Kevin Weeks, Johnny Martorano, maybe even guys like Jimmy Mantville and Paul Moore were completely aware of Whitey giving info to the FBI. They have admitted to knowing about Whitey's relationship with Connolly, I believe they just assumed that when the indictments came they would all be shielded.

Joe Mac definitely killed Jimmy Simms. Simms had been saying Mac was unstable b/c of his drinking and did not want to do anymore work with him. They had some sort of falling out and Mac killed him. However, I believe Joe was sober when he killed Simms because Simms body was never found.

Yea reading between the lines of Martorano's book it's so obvious that he knew what the deal was. Flemmi gets bail after being on the lam for blowing up a lawyer where his codefendant got 30 years and he pretends that he thought Stevie just got "lucky"? Think about the horse racing case for a second. Martorano claims that he believed that Connolly as a corrupt agent on their payroll kept Bulger and Flemmi out of the case - how the FUCK would he be able to swing that with his superiors unless those 2 guys were informants? It's ridiculous. Then Johnny himself goes on the run for like 18 years to avoid this chickenshit case? Johnny never noticed that Whitey and Stevie never did any time in 30 years despite being so active? The Boston Globe outs Bulger as an informant and Martorano seriously is convinced that it's nothing but a smear job on Whitey's brother? Gimme a break.

Johnny knew exactly why he and his partners had lived such a charmed criminal life and when the time came he made a sweetheart deal. Can't knock the hustle, but it's insulting to our intelligence to pretend that he didn't find out until 96 or whatever it was when it came out in court.

Did Howie Winter know about Bulger and Flemmi's relationship with the Feds? As he went down on the race fixing case. Also Howie worked with Buddy McLean who was a federal informant during the gang war against the McLaughlin's. I wonder if Howie knew then about Stevie's thing with the Feds such as Paul Rico from Buddy.

[Brovelli]

One more....

Benny Squint being the boss was the worst kept secret in the mafia. Everyone knew.

I actually wanna make a clarification here.

I think the secret part of Lombardo's tenure as Boss was the fact he had a stroke. I think THAT was the big secret, NOT that he was calling shots.

Life Magazine laid out the whole Genovese succesion, with Lombardo as the 1st name mentioned in an issue in 1969.

I do find it interesting that Funzi is the one who seems to have overseen the induction ceremonies we are aware of at that time (Barone and Cafaro). Not sure if there are other examples from that time but I wondered was Funzi just a delegated front boss or was he actually the boss? When Chin was on the street, were induction ceremonies carried out by others or by him if we have any evidence?

[Don_Peppino]

There is a social club in South Philly called Palizzi Social club, there is a video on YT about it, that originally opened in 1918 for italians from a certain town (Vasto in/near Abbruzzo). After seeing this, I thought it could possibly be one of the early "different" Families that Harry Riccobene talked about.

Good info. Philly had one of the largest Abruzzesi populations which is why we see so many of them in that Family.

They definitely wouldn't have had their own Family early on, though. Celeste Morello thought the early Families were divided between the Belmontesi, Caccamesi, Castrogiovannesi, and the Campobellesi, all Western Sicilians, and I suspect that's fairly accurate. Less confident about the guys from Campobello di Mazzara as there were fewer (known) members from there than the other three towns but who knows.

Very possible there were early Abruzzesi in Philly affiliated with the Camorra though by the 1920s when Philly had one Family we have guys like Marco Reginelli named by Rocco Scafidi as a member, who was given the names of 1920s members from his brother. If any guys from Abruzzo were made before that it would have been with one of the Sicilian groups, not a separate Abruzzese Family.

Thanks for that clarification, B.
What are your thoughts on the Harry Riccobene statement about there being different Families in Philly before it being the one we know of???