Rocco wrote:It was also rumored that plenty of NY Bonanno's were turned away by the Feds because they had so many rats they didn't need of course with no evidence or names we really can take it for what its worth...hearsay. But I do not doubt it either.
I think the Feds did confirm this in one of their indictments. That several Bonannos offered to flip but they had so many flip that they didn't need them. It was during that crazy 2003-2004 period where it seemed every other week a made Bonanno was flipping. Capeci may have mentioned it as well.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Lupara wrote:And that's because the Canadian justice system is a joke compared to the US. If Canada would introduce similar jail sentences you'd probably see a lot more guys flip along with it.
I still dream of Desjardins flipping, he would offer so much info that any speculation on our part would be a thing of the past.
Hard to say ... There are plenty of OC criminals in Canada that draw 20yr sentences and don't flip.
Like who? Guys with 20 year sentences get out in 10. Also, you're comparing 20 made guys in Montreal with a thousand in New York.
Yea with their softer laws on organized crime there is less to flip above the border, but like Lupara said you can't make the difference due to the numbers.
I would love to see Desjardins flip too and we could find out the true story, but word is he lives in prison like a king or did during his earlier stints. I imagine him taking that many years on the chin he must know he can live pretty well and of course stay out of Rizzuto's hit list. We still don't know if Rizzuto got to DeVito with that poison or if he done it on his own. Hard to say with him being so bad after his wife killed his two girls.
Last edited by dixiemafia on Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
dixiemafia wrote:We still don't know if Rizzuto got to DeVito with that poison or if he done it on his own. Hard to say with him being so bad after his wife killed his two girls.
That fucking threw me when I first read it. Cynanide poisoning. In prison. While being at odds with the Rizzuto's and despondent with the death of his daughters. Good luck solving that one Pure speculaction on my part, but if there was ever a candidate for being "suicided"...
Lupara wrote:Like who? Guys with 20 year sentences get out in 10. Also, you're comparing 20 made guys in Montreal with a thousand in New York.
i think in montreal there are by far more than 20 made members or they have a huge number of associates the operation colisee only indicted about 90 people
Rocco wrote:It was also rumored that plenty of NY Bonanno's were turned away by the Feds because they had so many rats they didn't need of course with no evidence or names we really can take it for what its worth...hearsay. But I do not doubt it either.
I think the Feds did confirm this in one of their indictments. That several Bonannos offered to flip but they had so many flip that they didn't need them. It was during that crazy 2003-2004 period where it seemed every other week a made Bonanno was flipping. Capeci may have mentioned it as well.
Pogo
I know. I said I do not doubt it. But no names were issued for obvious safety reasons of those inmates.
Lupara wrote:And that's because the Canadian justice system is a joke compared to the US. If Canada would introduce similar jail sentences you'd probably see a lot more guys flip along with it.
I still dream of Desjardins flipping, he would offer so much info that any speculation on our part would be a thing of the past.
Hard to say ... There are plenty of OC criminals in Canada that draw 20yr sentences and don't flip.
Like who? Guys with 20 year sentences get out in 10. Also, you're comparing 20 made guys in Montreal with a thousand in New York.
I am not arguing that Canada laws are more Liberal. But I was Comparing the Montreal Crew to the rest of the Bonnanos in NY. But if you want to include all NY and NJ guys there are plenty of guys who flipped rather then face 20yrs state time with parole at 8yrs. Or just plain old 10yr Fed sentences from RICO Gambling cases. Or they became Dry snitches just providing info like Frank Langano etc. And if you want to throw in just long time associates in NJ NY then you are adding hundreds of guys who cooperated. I am just comparing Nick Sr to a throw back guy like Anthony Spero. Guys like MAssino and Sal Vitale would throw their own mothers under a bus to get out from under.
The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
Lupara wrote:Like who? Guys with 20 year sentences get out in 10. Also, you're comparing 20 made guys in Montreal with a thousand in New York.
i think in montreal there are by far more than 20 made members or they have a huge number of associates the operation colisee only indicted about 90 people
It is well documented that the Montreal crew consisted of aproximately 20 made members. There are probably a couple Sicilian and Calabrian mafiosi operating in Montreal who belong to other families, but even then the total numbers of fully inducted members of the Mafia in Montreal would probably not be more than a couple dozen.
Lupara wrote:The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
It's strange. The Genovese family had the first member to publically flip but came to be considered the most secretive family with the least amount of turncoats. Meanwhile, the Bonanno family was the last to have a member flip but, once they did, many came shortly after.
If I'm not mistaken, Canada also has a strong N'Drangheta presence...and the Calabrians are fucking BRUTAL.
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
Lupara wrote:The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
It's strange. The Genovese family had the first member to publically flip but came to be considered the most secretive family with the least amount of turncoats. Meanwhile, the Bonanno family was the last to have a member flip but, once they did, many came shortly after.
Perhaps because they had the first member to flip they were also the first to take precautions.
i've always looked at montreal as #2, although granted a very distant 2nd place, in terms of north american italian organized crime cities. pretty amazing the level the small amount of guys up there are able to operate at, even with weak law enforcement and turf wars considered!
JCB1977 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Canada also has a strong N'Drangheta presence...and the Calabrians are fucking BRUTAL.
That's correct, especially Ontario and the GTA which homes several clans. The Calabrians were actually a factor in the Montreal war. Several ranking figures in the Rizzuto circle were/are Calabrian.
Lupara wrote:The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
There were CIs, but you're right there were no CWs.
Though I wouldn't say everything fell apart when Massino flipped. Everything had already fallen apart and a number of important capos and the underboss all flipped leading up to that. Massino was just the icing on the cake.
Pure speculaction on my part, but if there was ever a candidate for being "suicided"...
