General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Ivan]

Crime in Chicago does not really pique my interest. Unless, you have some details on this one

Bridgeport is an Outfit stronghold. Body in the trunk of a burning Audie. Outfit invented the term trunk music. One of the last major Outfit hits was Ronnie Jarrett that happened in Bridgeport. Just saying. Could be cartel but would not be surprised if it’s Outfit.

Would be funny if it's a present-day gang copying the Outfit's old style.

[Patrickgold]

Crime in Chicago does not really pique my interest. Unless, you have some details on this one

Bridgeport is an Outfit stronghold. Body in the trunk of a burning Audie. Outfit invented the term trunk music. One of the last major Outfit hits was Ronnie Jarrett that happened in Bridgeport. Just saying. Could be cartel but would not be surprised if it’s Outfit.

Would be funny if it's a present-day gang copying the Outfit's old style.

Very well could be. I remember about 5 or so years ago a burning body was found in a car in Franklin Park and everyone was thinking it was Outfit but ended up being cartel.

[Ivan]

Crime in Chicago does not really pique my interest. Unless, you have some details on this one

Bridgeport is an Outfit stronghold. Body in the trunk of a burning Audie. Outfit invented the term trunk music. One of the last major Outfit hits was Ronnie Jarrett that happened in Bridgeport. Just saying. Could be cartel but would not be surprised if it’s Outfit.

Would be funny if it's a present-day gang copying the Outfit's old style.

Very well could be. I remember about 5 or so years ago a burning body was found in a car in Franklin Park and everyone was thinking it was Outfit but ended up being cartel.

Did the Outfit ever do the burning car thing? In all the cases I can think of, they served the trunk music cold.

[Snakes]

Crime in Chicago does not really pique my interest. Unless, you have some details on this one

Bridgeport is an Outfit stronghold. Body in the trunk of a burning Audie. Outfit invented the term trunk music. One of the last major Outfit hits was Ronnie Jarrett that happened in Bridgeport. Just saying. Could be cartel but would not be surprised if it’s Outfit.

Would be funny if it's a present-day gang copying the Outfit's old style.

Very well could be. I remember about 5 or so years ago a burning body was found in a car in Franklin Park and everyone was thinking it was Outfit but ended up being cartel.

Did the Outfit ever do the burning car thing? In all the cases I can think of, they served the trunk music cold.

They did it a couple of times. Butch Petrocelli was supposed to be that way but because they left the windows up, the fire didn't have enough oxygen to spread. Butch still got burnt up, though.

[Ivan]

They did it a couple of times. Butch Petrocelli was supposed to be that way but because they left the windows up, the fire didn't have enough oxygen to spread. Butch still got burnt up, though.

Oh yeah, forgot about him. I didn't know they burned the car though; I always thought they blowtorched his face to torture him.

[Snakes]

They did it a couple of times. Butch Petrocelli was supposed to be that way but because they left the windows up, the fire didn't have enough oxygen to spread. Butch still got burnt up, though.

Oh yeah, forgot about him. I didn't know they burned the car though; I always thought they blowtorched his face to torture him.

I think that was something the media guessed but they found empty cans of lighter fluid in the car and Nick Calabrese later confirmed that they attempted to torch the car.

Nick D'Andrea (alleged co-conspirator in the failed Al Pilotto hit) was also found in a burning car after being beaten to death.

[Ivan]

OK all this raises an interesting question that just came to mind. Can't believe I had never thought to ask before, but what is the practical reason for leaving a dead body in a trunk in the first place? Wherefore trunk music?

[PolackTony]

Yeah I doubt Fischetti put his hands on Coppola even in a drunken moment of anger over perceived disrespect. He says Coppola reacted by asking him why he was blowing his top which seems like a mild reaction to a Chicago captain assaulting a Genovese captain, let alone one with Coppola's reputation. Valachi told his proteges that if someone from Coppola's crew ever messed with them at a bar or restaurant to go get a gun and just kill the guy because Coppola's crew was so unhinged (one time the Paganos tried to do exactly that when Joe Tortorici beefed with them at Lanza's restaurant but Lanza intervened when the Paganos returned with a gun). Even outside of Coppola's immediate reaction, he could have pursued the issue "legally" and gotten Fischetti killed or at least shelved

The transcript does read like he physically attacked Coppola but maybe he was saying he struck someone else (Eder) or was exaggerating his reaction. No question Fischetti was having a meltdown and it was a tense confrontation, violence or not.

Yeah, although the transcript at face value reads like Fischetti attacked Coppola, he did say that Elder was present with Coppola at that moment and it’s much more plausible that he assaulted Elder than assaulted a guy like Coppola (lying to Cerone about it, while obviously not nearly as serious as assaulting a member, could also be a violation if he was found to be lying; though he may have been exaggerating rather than lying, he specifically does tell Cerone that he hit someone). Possible that Fischetti could’ve been demoted, though clearly not shelved given that he was meeting with Cerone in 1962, over whatever the actual incident was and we just wouldn’t know about it. I’d tend to think that if a Chicago captain physically assaulted a Genovese captain in a public place like this, while multiple powerful leaders were in the next room, it would have been an issue that we’d probably otherwise have heard about, but who knows.

Assaulting a top associate direct with Coppola in front of Coppola would in and of itself have been a pretty big deal. If that’s what happened, Coppola probably wouldn’t have jumped in so as to not physically tangle with a member, but I’d have to think that the issue still would have been a serious beef. Fischetti died of a heart attack two years after the conversation with Cerone. I imagine that he was a pretty high strung guy.

[PolackTony]

OK all this raises an interesting question that just came to mind. Can't believe I had never thought to ask before, but what is the practical reason for leaving a dead body in a trunk in the first place? Wherefore trunk music?

My guess is that it was because they wanted to leave a message but also have some distance between the murder and discovery of the corpse. Unlike leaving a guy in the street or a vacant lot somewhere, bodies in the trunk didn’t usually get discovered until they began to decompose enough to garner attention from someone; depending on time of year, days, weeks. So the trail for investigators is a bit colder, but there is still a gruesome memento left behind of what happened to some guy who fucked around and found out. Offhand, trunk music seems to have become more common during the 70s. In prior decades, they often just dropped a guy where he was, or dumped him somewhere in public out in the suburbs. So could have been a response to changes in LE pressure.

[funkster]

Not saying its definitely an Outfit thing obviously, but Bridgeport would be an odd choice for the cartels to leave a body.


It will be interesting to see if they ever ID the body, I think there's very little chance a 27 year old Cartel guy knows the story behind BP unless they have some sort of understanding simply based on crossing paths with another criminal organization.

[Ivan]

OK all this raises an interesting question that just came to mind. Can't believe I had never thought to ask before, but what is the practical reason for leaving a dead body in a trunk in the first place? Wherefore trunk music?

My guess is that it was because they wanted to leave a message but also have some distance between the murder and discovery of the corpse. Unlike leaving a guy in the street or a vacant lot somewhere, bodies in the trunk didn’t usually get discovered until they began to decompose enough to garner attention from someone; depending on time of year, days, weeks. So the trail for investigators is a bit colder, but there is still a gruesome memento left behind of what happened to some guy who fucked around and found out. Offhand, trunk music seems to have become more common during the 70s. In prior decades, they often just dropped a guy where he was, or dumped him somewhere in public out in the suburbs. So could have been a response to changes in LE pressure.

Great answer Tony, I think that about explains it now that I think about it some more.

It's usually the victim's car or some stolen car, right?

[PolackTony]

Not saying its definitely an Outfit thing obviously, but Bridgeport would be an odd choice for the cartels to leave a body.


It will be interesting to see if they ever ID the body, I think there's very little chance a 27 year old Cartel guy knows the story behind BP unless they have some sort of understanding simply based on crossing paths with another criminal organization.

Who knows, they could’ve just stopped on a quiet block at night to torch the vehicle and bounce. Impossible to say without further info coming out. Given Chicago’s abysmal homicide clearance rate, it may well never be solved. Wentworth Gardens is just on the other side of that viaduct there too, and at least in past years that was a very nasty little area. Back in the day, people from the PJs would have known to not cross the tracks, but I highly doubt that the guys on the street today know or care much about Bridgeport’s history and I’m sure have absolutely no fear of that neighborhood now. How many Italians even live in that section of Bridgeport now anyway, as compared to Chinese?

Could be the mob, cartels or other OC, a gang hit, a robbery, drug deal gone wrong, or some personal beef. As you know, there’s no shortage of people in Chicago ready and willing to kill someone. Maybe if/when the body is identified there will be some clue, but maybe not.

Two bodies were found in a torched car recently by me. Given the part of the Bronx, it has the same historical considerations as Bridgeport, in terms of LCN. But it turned out to just have been some degenerate street criminals (one of them living in a homeless shelter) robbing people. Point being is that this kind of thing isn’t necessarily a hallmark of any sort of sophisticated criminal organization.

[funkster]

Is it weird to hope it's Outfit related just because i want to have things to discuss? lol

[Snakes]

Is it weird to hope it's Outfit related just because i want to have things to discuss? lol

May as well, not like the guy would be any less dead if it was something else!

[B.]

Not saying its definitely an Outfit thing obviously, but Bridgeport would be an odd choice for the cartels to leave a body.


It will be interesting to see if they ever ID the body, I think there's very little chance a 27 year old Cartel guy knows the story behind BP unless they have some sort of understanding simply based on crossing paths with another criminal organization.

Who knows, they could’ve just stopped on a quiet block at night to torch the vehicle and bounce. Impossible to say without further info coming out. Given Chicago’s abysmal homicide clearance rate, it may well never be solved. Wentworth Gardens is just on the other side of that viaduct there too, and at least in past years that was a very nasty little area. Back in the day, people from the PJs would have known to not cross the tracks, but I highly doubt that the guys on the street today know or care much about Bridgeport’s history and I’m sure have absolutely no fear of that neighborhood now. How many Italians even live in that section of Bridgeport now anyway, as compared to Chinese?

Could be the mob, cartels or other OC, a gang hit, a robbery, drug deal gone wrong, or some personal beef. As you know, there’s no shortage of people in Chicago ready and willing to kill someone. Maybe if/when the body is identified there will be some clue, but maybe not.

Two bodies were found in a torched car recently by me. Given the part of the Bronx, it has the same historical considerations as Bridgeport, in terms of LCN. But it turned out to just have been some degenerate street criminals (one of them living in a homeless shelter) robbing people. Point being is that this kind of thing isn’t necessarily a hallmark of any sort of sophisticated criminal organization.

Trunk music is a language understood by all peoples the world over. Cue "It's a Small World".