General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[NorthBuffalo]

On the Fosco forums, it was alleged that the informant around Rosemont was the grandson of Sam Louis (Luisi) who had gotten in a fistfight with Magnafichi and was scared of the repercussions.

[Snakes]

Messino and Rick Rizzolo were also alleged to be at that meeting, which was at Armand's. Lombardo being there is very questionable to me as he was still on parole and could not associate with convicted felons, of which nearly all the other attendees were (except maybe Fratto at the time).

[Coloboy]

I've always found that report suspicious. It's like someone picked out the biggest outfit names they could think of (Difronzo, Lombardo, Andriacchi) and said they were all at a meeting. If it was true, based on the timeframe, one would also assume Monteleone would have been there.

Who knows....anything is possible, but John Difronzo and Joey Lombardo sitting down at a table with the mayor of Rosemont to discuss illegal gambling just seems unlikely in 1999.

[Patrickgold]

I've always found that report suspicious. It's like someone picked out the biggest outfit names they could think of (Difronzo, Lombardo, Andriacchi) and said they were all at a meeting. If it was true, based on the timeframe, one would also assume Monteleone would have been there.

Who knows....anything is possible, but John Difronzo and Joey Lombardo sitting down at a table with the mayor of Rosemont to discuss illegal gambling just seems unlikely in 1999.

I agree with that. No way they were all at the same table. Could they have been in the same restaurant at the same time? Now that’s possible. I could see Lombardo and Rizzolo eating there. The DiFronzos, Andriacchi, Fratto and Messino there eating at the same table. I doubt Don Stephens would have eaten with any of them but who knows.

[Snakes]

I've always found that report suspicious. It's like someone picked out the biggest outfit names they could think of (Difronzo, Lombardo, Andriacchi) and said they were all at a meeting. If it was true, based on the timeframe, one would also assume Monteleone would have been there.

Who knows....anything is possible, but John Difronzo and Joey Lombardo sitting down at a table with the mayor of Rosemont to discuss illegal gambling just seems unlikely in 1999.

I agree with that. No way they were all at the same table. Could they have been in the same restaurant at the same time? Now that’s possible. I could see Lombardo and Rizzolo eating there. The DiFronzos, Andriacchi, Fratto and Messino there eating at the same table. I doubt Don Stephens would have eaten with any of them but who knows.

Kind of an aside, but I wonder if it would be a violation if Lombardo at with say, Spina, and Spina went back and forth with the DiFronzo table passing messages? Technically, Lombardo isn't meeting with them, but is certainly communicating with them in some form or fashion.

[PolackTony]

I've always found that report suspicious. It's like someone picked out the biggest outfit names they could think of (Difronzo, Lombardo, Andriacchi) and said they were all at a meeting. If it was true, based on the timeframe, one would also assume Monteleone would have been there.

Who knows....anything is possible, but John Difronzo and Joey Lombardo sitting down at a table with the mayor of Rosemont to discuss illegal gambling just seems unlikely in 1999.

I agree with that. No way they were all at the same table. Could they have been in the same restaurant at the same time? Now that’s possible. I could see Lombardo and Rizzolo eating there. The DiFronzos, Andriacchi, Fratto and Messino there eating at the same table. I doubt Don Stephens would have eaten with any of them but who knows.

Kind of an aside, but I wonder if it would be a violation if Lombardo at with say, Spina, and Spina went back and forth with the DiFronzo table passing messages? Technically, Lombardo isn't meeting with them, but is certainly communicating with them in some form or fashion.

My impression is that Lombardo was using restaurants to circumvent his parole restrictions e.g. Bella Notte and Mike's Diner on Grand Ave. It wouldn't have been Joey's fault if some convicted felons happened to go into the same restaurant as him while he was having his Friday fish dinner like a good Catholic, now would it? And if some of them even approached his table and said a few words to him, he can't stop people from coming up to him in a public place. If you ride a CTA bus, for example, in Chicago, you are almost certainly riding with people with felony records. If someone that you are riding with, who has no record, sees some guy on the bus who is a felon and goes over and starts talking to him, does that mean you have violated the terms of your parole? Highly doubt they would or could enforce that without having clear evidence that Spina, say, was passing messages for Joey.

Having said that, I agree that the claims about the Stephens meeting have always sounded a bit too perfect to be true, though it could well have been the case that all of them passed through Armand's on the same night. Armand's was also a mobbed-up joint, so who knows if they would have used a private room or met after hours also.

[Coloboy]

This all touches on what I view as a very interesting outfit topic, which is how guys like Difronzo, Lombardo, and Andriacchi communicated with each other. Do we think that any time after his parole restrictions were over that Lombardo met, in person, with those other two? Was it too risky? Did they solely speak through messengers?

Everything we have heard about Difronzo is about the distance he put between himself and the street in his later years. Sitting at a roundtable with Donald Stephens and Joey the Clown seems pretty far fetched. The idea of passing messages along while being in the same restaurant is interesting too. I suppose it's possible.

Side note- wasn't there an FBI report from around 2006 claiming that Difronzo met at a restaurant with members of the Grand Ave Crew, including Bobby P.? I guess if that is true maybe he wasn't as cautious as we can assume. He was also meeting with D'Amico and his own brothers, along with other unidentified outfit guys as late as 2009 with the Chuck Goudie thing.

[Snakes]

This all touches on what I view as a very interesting outfit topic, which is how guys like Difronzo, Lombardo, and Andriacchi communicated with each other. Do we think that any time after his parole restrictions were over that Lombardo met, in person, with those other two? Was it too risky? Did they solely speak through messengers?

Everything we have heard about Difronzo is about the distance he put between himself and the street in his later years. Sitting at a roundtable with Donald Stephens and Joey the Clown seems pretty far fetched. The idea of passing messages along while being in the same restaurant is interesting too. I suppose it's possible.

Side note- wasn't there an FBI report from around 2006 claiming that Difronzo met at a restaurant with members of the Grand Ave Crew, including Bobby P.? I guess if that is true maybe he wasn't as cautious as we can assume. He was also meeting with D'Amico and his own brothers, along with other unidentified outfit guys as late as 2009 with the Chuck Goudie thing.

Burnstein said there are federal surveillance logs of DiFronzo meeting in Chicago with Albert Vena, Tony Zizzo, Panozzo, and Jeff Hollingshead in the "weeks leading up to Zizzo's disappearance in 2006." If I remember correctly, Hollingshead's wife was also there, so this may not have been a "business meeting," although they could have always sent her off to the bathroom or something so they could talk shop. I think the logs also mentioned DiFronzo hit a car in the parking lot after the meal lol

[Coloboy]

This all touches on what I view as a very interesting outfit topic, which is how guys like Difronzo, Lombardo, and Andriacchi communicated with each other. Do we think that any time after his parole restrictions were over that Lombardo met, in person, with those other two? Was it too risky? Did they solely speak through messengers?

Everything we have heard about Difronzo is about the distance he put between himself and the street in his later years. Sitting at a roundtable with Donald Stephens and Joey the Clown seems pretty far fetched. The idea of passing messages along while being in the same restaurant is interesting too. I suppose it's possible.

Side note- wasn't there an FBI report from around 2006 claiming that Difronzo met at a restaurant with members of the Grand Ave Crew, including Bobby P.? I guess if that is true maybe he wasn't as cautious as we can assume. He was also meeting with D'Amico and his own brothers, along with other unidentified outfit guys as late as 2009 with the Chuck Goudie thing.

Burnstein said there are federal surveillance logs of DiFronzo meeting in Chicago with Albert Vena, Tony Zizzo, Panozzo, and Jeff Hollingshead in the "weeks leading up to Zizzo's disappearance in 2006." If I remember correctly, Hollingshead's wife was also there, so this may not have been a "business meeting," although they could have always sent her off to the bathroom or something so they could talk shop. I think the logs also mentioned DiFronzo hit a car in the parking lot after the meal lol

Thanks, that is exactly what I was remembering.

[Ivan]

Judge Zagel has died. I always thought the things he said when sentencing Outfit guys in the Family Secrets case sounded things a judge in a movie would say.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/obituaries ... s-obituary

[funkster]

Looks like the madam Gary Gags was shaking down got two years probation.

[Coloboy]

Since this thread has been a bit quiet, I’m going to play on a theme I saw in a different thread…

Anyone care to share stories of personal interactions with outfit guys? I know many of you grew up around some of them or may live near them now.

My only run in was with Marco D’Amico, A story I have shared earlier in this thread.

[B.]

Random reports I found interesting:



- Joseph Iatarola described as a "sleeper" in the Chicago Family.



- Source believed Giancana's killer(s) would have received orders from "one of the committe".
- Suspects Blasi or English of being involved.



- I've seen the other accounts of Bonanno trying to influence Bompensiero, Fratianno, and Biagio Bonventre to take out the LA leadership but I don't think I've seen this one where Bonanno is said to have recruited John Roselli and Joe Giammona.
- Interesting in this account Roselli initially agreed to the plot but then told Frank Desimone and traveled to New York to discuss it. Makes sense that he would meet with Gambino but more likely to me is his main audience was Tommy Lucchese who was Gambino's ally.
- Roselli by this time was a Chicago member.
- Any idea who this LA informant is? It's not Piscopo.



- Two Chicago member informants in 1976. Does anyone know if those codes match any of the known / suspected informants?
- One of the member informants attended Dom DiBella's 1976 funeral.



- Same member informant. Was close to Sam Giancana.
- Tried to attend Giancana's funeral but Chicago undertaker William Marzullo told him not to attend. William Marzullo was the son of Chicago member and politician Vito Marzullo.
- A relative of the informant's who was close to Joey Aiuppa also told the informant he would get "called in" if he went to Giancana's funeral.



- A lot of bold claims here, but it's at least true that Accardo fell out of favor as boss as he said so himself on a recording.
- The cited article says Sam Battaglia, Sam Giancana, and "Jack Capone" were "representatives of Paul Ricca" who were unhappy with Accardo.
- "Jack Capone" must be Cerone, but strange to think of Cerone and Giancana being part of an anti-Accardo faction as this says.
- Is there any evidence of Accardo having a warning shot fired at him? This was published a few years before the shot fired at Frank Costello so it isn't borrowing from that.
- The CI placed Accardo, Capezio, and Giancana as the pecking order in Chicago circa 1954.

[Ivan]

OK someone explain this thing where Accardo was taken down as boss and replaced by Ricca in 1952. That's totally new to me.

Also how could Accardo be atop the hierarchy as stated later in that report if he had been taken down as stated earlier in the report?

[B.]

It's two different sources in the same report. The first part is from a newspaper article and the last part is from an informant. Who knows what the newspaper's sources were, but the CI didn't say anything here about Accardo losing his position that early.

It's possible though that issues started to develop in 1952 and were exaggerated by this article. One thing Accardo said on tape was that when he was boss he made a mistake and then his detractors started looking for him to make other mistakes. Maybe a series of issues took place in the years leading up to him stepping down even if it wasn't what was described in the 1954 article.