Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Newyorkempire]

Right and he got made before he went to jail, so theres another making ceremony.

I also know first hand still about 5 legit associates (any made? Not sure) in Niagara, NY that go back to Maggadino days, legit guys that know the ropes. Does the status of being made mean as much all the way around at the national level? Less and less. But the Canadian guys still love the NY guys.

Youre right. Just want him to know I think hes as much nonsense as he thinks I am in my theories.

[Newyorkempire]

Why is he the one asking questions? Ive already gave my reasons. Not sure but is he the Bible? Not to me.

[Pogo The Clown]

Name one other positively identified member besides the 12 currently listed. You can't.

Former RCMP Sgt Stephen Metelsky identified Pat Musitano and Pino Avignone as made members recently in that Mob Museum presentation he did a couple months back. Neither were listed in the charts. Although he said they were made after Papalia's murder so pre-2006.

That was a dubious claim since the chart that they put out from their own investigation shows the Mustinaos as their own separate group. On top of that Musitano's name doesn't appear on the FBI list of members despite being a well known name at the time.


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And I'm believe that this Newyorkempire is Rooster from GBB.


Pogo

[OcSleeper]

That was a dubious claim since the chart that they put out from their own investigation shows the Mustinaos as their own separate group. On top of that Musitano's name doesn't appear on the FBI list of members despite being a well known name at the time.

Fair enough but the RCMP always act as if the Papalias, Rizzutos, Musitanos and Luppino/Violis are their own entity under the umbrella of Buffalo/Bonanno. Which in a way they kinda are. I don't think it's enough to discredit what he said about Pat and Pino being Made Men though.

As Newyorkempire pointed out, the FBI doesn't know everything. It wouldn't be the first time a name has been left out. I also have never seen Pat or Pino's name listed anywhere until the Sgt's presentation.

[B.]

We discussed it before, but that RCMP chart identifies the Luppino-Violis as their own "crime family" as well and we know they are Buffalo members. That chart can't be used one way or another to prove anything about the Musitano faction's formal affiliation. It doesn't conflict with the sergeant's claim about Musitano/Avignone becoming Buffalo members given it identifies known Buffalo members the same way right next to them.

[CabriniGreen]

Name one other positively identified member besides the 12 currently listed. You can't.

Former RCMP Sgt Stephen Metelsky identified Pat Musitano and Pino Avignone as made members recently in that Mob Museum presentation he did a couple months back. Neither were listed in the charts. Although he said they were made after Papalia's murder so pre-2006.


@Newyorkempire I don't appreciate with what Wiseguy (or Pogo for that matter) have said since I think a lot of times they just come in and shut down any theories people are trying to explore. Imo if you disagree that's fine, just don't tell everyone else they're wrong every chance you get. But now you're just kinda filling the thread with nonsense and rambling on in multiple little posts which could be sent in one when Wiseguy has asked you some very valid questions.

We don't have to go back and forth repeating the same arguments every time new information comes out. It's not helping anyone actually interested in this and it's just burying the actual important posts that people come to read.

He kinda identified Pat. We assume Avignon because he was present, but he didnt really identify him.

[Wiseguy]

Name one other positively identified member besides the 12 currently listed. You can't.

Former RCMP Sgt Stephen Metelsky identified Pat Musitano and Pino Avignone as made members recently in that Mob Museum presentation he did a couple months back. Neither were listed in the charts. Although he said they were made after Papalia's murder so pre-2006.

I'd argue they weren't positively identified as made. Metelsky obviously believes they are but his evidence was rather circumstantial and why haven't we seen them identified anywhere else over the years since that meeting?

@Newyorkempire I don't appreciate with what Wiseguy (or Pogo for that matter) have said since I think a lot of times they just come in and shut down any theories people are trying to explore. Imo if you disagree that's fine, just don't tell everyone else they're wrong every chance you get. But now you're just kinda filling the thread with nonsense and rambling on in multiple little posts which could be sent in one when Wiseguy has asked you some very valid questions.

That's fair. Which is why I want going to even respond to Nickle's original post and only did when NYempire brought us up.

And he's spamming the thread, and dancing around the questions, because he can't answer them.

We don't have to go back and forth repeating the same arguments every time new information comes out. It's not helping anyone actually interested in this and it's just burying the actual important posts that people come to read.

Agreed.

[Newyorkempire]

Lol. I never brought you up. Wtf are you talking about?

[Newyorkempire]

Ive already given my reasons. Round and round you go.

[Wiseguy]

Lol. I never brought you up. Wtf are you talking about?

Your initial of "cue the posters..." was referring to Pogo and myself. We all know it.

[OcSleeper]

He kinda identified Pat. We assume Avignon because he was present, but he didnt really identify him.

What he said was after the Papalia murder Pat disappeared and was presumably in Buffalo. He then went on to say Pat, Pino, and Gaetano Panepinto met Vito in a coffee shop in Toronto in 1999. Plain clothes officers heard Gaetano specifically introduce Pat & Pino as our friends from Hamilton.

Whether this was the only evidence they had regarding both men being made is unclear. But it was quite clear Stephen Metelsky and the RCMP considered them both made men in the Buffalo Family.

I've also seen Paul Manning post the following on Twitter in a series of replies to someone

Pino was made long before Pat. Pino made his bones whacking Rucco. Pino was definitely a Capo when I knew him back in 2005/06. Can’t go into details yet, but he was.

We can assume he meant Domenic Racco. Pino would of been 23 at the time of this murder.

I'd argue they weren't positively identified as made. Metelsky obviously believes they are but his evidence was rather circumstantial and why haven't we seen them identified anywhere else over the years since that meeting?

Again fair enough but like I mentioned above in this post Metelsky, the RCMP and Manning clearly view them as such. They must have their reasons. Personally for me, two separate LE sources saying that is enough proof to consider them made members, until proven otherwise.

[Newyorkempire]

Lol. I never brought you up. Wtf are you talking about?

Your initial of "cue the posters..." was referring to Pogo and myself. We all know it.

"We all know it" lol. Exactly what I mean when I think your nonsense. Youre the fan boy sitting on the throne. I was generalizing and you think im wishing for you to respond. Love it.

[Newyorkempire]

Did we figure out if Panepinto in Buffalo was related to Panepinto in Toronto?

[Newyorkempire]

He kinda identified Pat. We assume Avignon because he was present, but he didnt really identify him.

What he said was after the Papalia murder Pat disappeared and was presumably in Buffalo. He then went on to say Pat, Pino, and Gaetano Panepinto met Vito in a coffee shop in Toronto in 1999. Plain clothes officers heard Gaetano specifically introduce Pat & Pino as our friends from Hamilton.

Whether this was the only evidence they had regarding both men being made is unclear. But it was quite clear Stephen Metelsky and the RCMP considered them both made men in the Buffalo Family.

I've also seen Paul Manning post the following on Twitter in a series of replies to someone

Pino was made long before Pat. Pino made his bones whacking Rucco. Pino was definitely a Capo when I knew him back in 2005/06. Can’t go into details yet, but he was.

We can assume he meant Domenic Racco. Pino would of been 23 at the time of this murder.

I'd argue they weren't positively identified as made. Metelsky obviously believes they are but his evidence was rather circumstantial and why haven't we seen them identified anywhere else over the years since that meeting?

Again fair enough but like I mentioned above in this post Metelsky, the RCMP and Manning clearly view them as such. They must have their reasons. Personally for me, two separate LE sources saying that is enough proof to consider them made members, until proven otherwise.

I would think 2 separate law sources mixed with the Jonny Catz /Musitano phone call would give it credibility no??

And Domenic Violi claiming underboss status would cement it no? Must juSt all be coincidence these guys reference positions in a crime family and the murders that helped get them there.

[Newyorkempire]

We don't need to see them listed anywhere else but in what the Sgt. Said thats the whole fing point. THESE instances with Paul Manning and the Sgt. are enough beyond anyone else saying it or putting together a list. What do you not understand Wiseguy??