General Mob Questions

[gohnjotti]

THEORETICALLY .....
Gene gets out..
says he wants rank....
tells his brother whos still boss to step back....
.... does he listen???

no I'm joking...
but it'd interesting

Pete Gotti could not possibly "step back" any further. It's been proven that he holds absolutely zero power in the family. His title is just that... a title.

[Selig]

This is just my opinion, so don’t take too much stock into what I’m about to say: The thing with the Colombo family that sets them apart from the rest is the fact that Carmine Persico runs the show like its North Korea. Carmine wanted his son-in-law made, so his son-in-law was made, against the best wishes of a lot of his men. That sort of regime is great for the Persico family and anyone close to them, but not so great in terms of the meritocracy which the mob is supposed to be. Other families don’t have that same level of control. The Bonannos are always changing hands. The Gambinos only recently got out of the Gotti administration. Vic Amuso only debatedly has control over his family. We don’t know too much about the higher up levels of the Genoveses.

The Genovese's have pretty much always been a meritocracy: When there's one guy that stands out; He's the Boss. When power is diffused the power is spread among the most powerful/influential capos.

[gohnjotti]

This is just my opinion, so don’t take too much stock into what I’m about to say: The thing with the Colombo family that sets them apart from the rest is the fact that Carmine Persico runs the show like its North Korea. Carmine wanted his son-in-law made, so his son-in-law was made, against the best wishes of a lot of his men. That sort of regime is great for the Persico family and anyone close to them, but not so great in terms of the meritocracy which the mob is supposed to be. Other families don’t have that same level of control. The Bonannos are always changing hands. The Gambinos only recently got out of the Gotti administration. Vic Amuso only debatedly has control over his family. We don’t know too much about the higher up levels of the Genoveses.

The Genovese's have pretty much always been a meritocracy: When there's one guy that stands out; He's the Boss. When power is diffused the power is spread among the most powerful/influential capos.

I agree, and my point was that the only way to get anywhere in the Colombo family is to be a Persico or a relative. Look at Skinny Teddy, Carmine's nephew. The kid spent all of two total years on the street as a soldier before being promoted to ruling panel member and heir apparent.

[slimshady_007]

This is just my opinion, so don’t take too much stock into what I’m about to say: The thing with the Colombo family that sets them apart from the rest is the fact that Carmine Persico runs the show like its North Korea. Carmine wanted his son-in-law made, so his son-in-law was made, against the best wishes of a lot of his men. That sort of regime is great for the Persico family and anyone close to them, but not so great in terms of the meritocracy which the mob is supposed to be. Other families don’t have that same level of control. The Bonannos are always changing hands. The Gambinos only recently got out of the Gotti administration. Vic Amuso only debatedly has control over his family. We don’t know too much about the higher up levels of the Genoveses.

The Genovese's have pretty much always been a meritocracy: When there's one guy that stands out; He's the Boss. When power is diffused the power is spread among the most powerful/influential capos.

I agree, and my point was that the only way to get anywhere in the Colombo family is to be a Persico or a relative. Look at Skinny Teddy, Carmine's nephew. The kid spent all of two total years on the street as a soldier before being promoted to ruling panel member and heir apparent.

Doubt persico sr has any more influence on the fam by this point tho. Maybe michael uvino is a top player now?

[gohnjotti]

This is just my opinion, so don’t take too much stock into what I’m about to say: The thing with the Colombo family that sets them apart from the rest is the fact that Carmine Persico runs the show like its North Korea. Carmine wanted his son-in-law made, so his son-in-law was made, against the best wishes of a lot of his men. That sort of regime is great for the Persico family and anyone close to them, but not so great in terms of the meritocracy which the mob is supposed to be. Other families don’t have that same level of control. The Bonannos are always changing hands. The Gambinos only recently got out of the Gotti administration. Vic Amuso only debatedly has control over his family. We don’t know too much about the higher up levels of the Genoveses.

The Genovese's have pretty much always been a meritocracy: When there's one guy that stands out; He's the Boss. When power is diffused the power is spread among the most powerful/influential capos.

I agree, and my point was that the only way to get anywhere in the Colombo family is to be a Persico or a relative. Look at Skinny Teddy, Carmine's nephew. The kid spent all of two total years on the street as a soldier before being promoted to ruling panel member and heir apparent.

Doubt persico sr has any more influence on the fam by this point tho. Maybe michael uvino is a top player now?

Teddy Persico Sr. died last year.
You’ve mentioned Uvino before. What makes you think that other than the fact that he’s below the age of 60, and a capo.

[slimshady_007]

This is just my opinion, so don’t take too much stock into what I’m about to say: The thing with the Colombo family that sets them apart from the rest is the fact that Carmine Persico runs the show like its North Korea. Carmine wanted his son-in-law made, so his son-in-law was made, against the best wishes of a lot of his men. That sort of regime is great for the Persico family and anyone close to them, but not so great in terms of the meritocracy which the mob is supposed to be. Other families don’t have that same level of control. The Bonannos are always changing hands. The Gambinos only recently got out of the Gotti administration. Vic Amuso only debatedly has control over his family. We don’t know too much about the higher up levels of the Genoveses.

The Genovese's have pretty much always been a meritocracy: When there's one guy that stands out; He's the Boss. When power is diffused the power is spread among the most powerful/influential capos.

I agree, and my point was that the only way to get anywhere in the Colombo family is to be a Persico or a relative. Look at Skinny Teddy, Carmine's nephew. The kid spent all of two total years on the street as a soldier before being promoted to ruling panel member and heir apparent.

Doubt persico sr has any more influence on the fam by this point tho. Maybe michael uvino is a top player now?

Teddy Persico Sr. died last year.
You’ve mentioned Uvino before. What makes you think that other than the fact that he’s below the age of 60, and a capo.

When i said persico sr i meant carmine sr. Not teddy ik he’s dead. About uvino, i never said he was a top player. Just sayin its possible since rlly theres no one left in the colombos. Besides maybe william russo ive heard his name thrown around.

[gohnjotti]

When i said persico sr i meant carmine sr. Not teddy ik he’s dead. About uvino, i never said he was a top player. Just sayin its possible since rlly theres no one left in the colombos. Besides maybe william russo ive heard his name thrown around.

Who the hell is Carmine Sr.? You mean Junior’s dad? Pretty sure he was fully legit.
Or do you mean Junior?

And about Uvino. You said he might be a top player. I asked what made you think that. My question still stands and I don’t understand you’re response...

And yes, Billy Russo has been named in the past as a capo and possible heir apparent. He is Andy Russo’s son who managed to avoid life sentences like his other two sons. Ralph Lombardo has also been named as a possible heir apparent due to the fact that he was previously the acting consigliere, he was a good earner, and he very rarely gets busted. However, he is elderly and there might still be some bad blood with the administration since there was a contract on his head and a plan to whack him while he was consigliere.
Once Teddy Persico Jr. gets out, he’s probably going to climb to the rank of boss. He was a member of the ruling panel before his 2010 bust and has frequently been called the ‘heir apparent’ to the family. It seems the Persicos at the top want him to take over and, from tape recordings, we know that he is a violent, devoted gangster through and through. Kenny Gallo, who helped cause the 2005 bust against Teddy, would sometimes mistake him as ‘acting boss’ in his book if I remember correctly.

[slimshady_007]

When i said persico sr i meant carmine sr. Not teddy ik he’s dead. About uvino, i never said he was a top player. Just sayin its possible since rlly theres no one left in the colombos. Besides maybe william russo ive heard his name thrown around.

Who the hell is Carmine Sr.? You mean Junior’s dad? Pretty sure he was fully legit.
Or do you mean Junior?

And about Uvino. You said he might be a top player. I asked what made you think that. My question still stands and I don’t understand you’re response...

And yes, Billy Russo has been named in the past as a capo and possible heir apparent. He is Andy Russo’s son who managed to avoid life sentences like his other two sons. Ralph Lombardo has also been named as a possible heir apparent due to the fact that he was previously the acting consigliere, he was a good earner, and he very rarely gets busted. However, he is elderly and there might still be some bad blood with the administration since there was a contract on his head and a plan to whack him while he was consigliere.
Once Teddy Persico Jr. gets out, he’s probably going to climb to the rank of boss. He was a member of the ruling panel before his 2010 bust and has frequently been called the ‘heir apparent’ to the family. It seems the Persicos at the top want him to take over and, from tape recordings, we know that he is a violent, devoted gangster through and through. Kenny Gallo, who helped cause the 2005 bust against Teddy, would sometimes mistake him as ‘acting boss’ in his book if I remember correctly.

My bad about the carmine thing. I meant junior persico. Doubt he has called any shots within the past 10 years. And about univo i worded my response wrong. Id say it’s possible he is a top player due to how, as far as i know, the colombos dont have to many guys on the streets. One article i read I believe on the new york post said the colombos had only like 50 wiseguys on the street. With that little competition in the family it wouldn’t be hard to rise through the ranks. Plus he’s young with a long career a head of him, has done time (8 years), and has worked for some serious guys like sonny franzese. Id say its very likely uvino is on a panal that runs the colombos.

[slimshady_007]

When i said persico sr i meant carmine sr. Not teddy ik he’s dead. About uvino, i never said he was a top player. Just sayin its possible since rlly theres no one left in the colombos. Besides maybe william russo ive heard his name thrown around.

Who the hell is Carmine Sr.? You mean Junior’s dad? Pretty sure he was fully legit.
Or do you mean Junior?

And about Uvino. You said he might be a top player. I asked what made you think that. My question still stands and I don’t understand you’re response...

And yes, Billy Russo has been named in the past as a capo and possible heir apparent. He is Andy Russo’s son who managed to avoid life sentences like his other two sons. Ralph Lombardo has also been named as a possible heir apparent due to the fact that he was previously the acting consigliere, he was a good earner, and he very rarely gets busted. However, he is elderly and there might still be some bad blood with the administration since there was a contract on his head and a plan to whack him while he was consigliere.
Once Teddy Persico Jr. gets out, he’s probably going to climb to the rank of boss. He was a member of the ruling panel before his 2010 bust and has frequently been called the ‘heir apparent’ to the family. It seems the Persicos at the top want him to take over and, from tape recordings, we know that he is a violent, devoted gangster through and through. Kenny Gallo, who helped cause the 2005 bust against Teddy, would sometimes mistake him as ‘acting boss’ in his book if I remember correctly.

My bad about the carmine thing. I meant junior persico. Doubt he has called any shots within the past 10 years. And about univo i worded my response wrong. Id say it’s possible he is a top player due to how, as far as i know, the colombos dont have to many guys on the streets. One article i read I believe on the new york post said the colombos had only like 50 wiseguys on the street. With that little competition in the family it wouldn’t be hard to rise through the ranks. Plus he’s young with a long career a head of him, has done time (8 years), and has worked for some serious guys like sonny franzese. Id say its very likely uvino is on a panal that runs the colombos.

Also, what was the plot to whack lombardo about?

[gohnjotti]

When i said persico sr i meant carmine sr. Not teddy ik he’s dead. About uvino, i never said he was a top player. Just sayin its possible since rlly theres no one left in the colombos. Besides maybe william russo ive heard his name thrown around.

Who the hell is Carmine Sr.? You mean Junior’s dad? Pretty sure he was fully legit.
Or do you mean Junior?

And about Uvino. You said he might be a top player. I asked what made you think that. My question still stands and I don’t understand you’re response...

And yes, Billy Russo has been named in the past as a capo and possible heir apparent. He is Andy Russo’s son who managed to avoid life sentences like his other two sons. Ralph Lombardo has also been named as a possible heir apparent due to the fact that he was previously the acting consigliere, he was a good earner, and he very rarely gets busted. However, he is elderly and there might still be some bad blood with the administration since there was a contract on his head and a plan to whack him while he was consigliere.
Once Teddy Persico Jr. gets out, he’s probably going to climb to the rank of boss. He was a member of the ruling panel before his 2010 bust and has frequently been called the ‘heir apparent’ to the family. It seems the Persicos at the top want him to take over and, from tape recordings, we know that he is a violent, devoted gangster through and through. Kenny Gallo, who helped cause the 2005 bust against Teddy, would sometimes mistake him as ‘acting boss’ in his book if I remember correctly.

My bad about the carmine thing. I meant junior persico. Doubt he has called any shots within the past 10 years. And about univo i worded my response wrong. Id say it’s possible he is a top player due to how, as far as i know, the colombos dont have to many guys on the streets. One article i read I believe on the new york post said the colombos had only like 50 wiseguys on the street. With that little competition in the family it wouldn’t be hard to rise through the ranks. Plus he’s young with a long career a head of him, has done time (8 years), and has worked for some serious guys like sonny franzese. Id say its very likely uvino is on a panal that runs the colombos.

In 2011 they had around 50 guys on the street by the New York Post's estimation. That was just after the bust that arrested fifteen made members. It was probably an exaggeration, but the rank of the guys arrested is important because it created some big vacancies.
90-110 is probably a better exaggeration.

[gohnjotti]

Also, what was the plot to whack lombardo about?

Acting consigliere Ralph Lombardo was consistently avoiding prosecution and investigation by the feds so Little Allie Boy Persico put a plan in motion to assassinate him. Lombardo was (conveniently) arrested with loansharking charges and actually asked to be held without bail for his own safety. He got a couple of years in prison.

[Pogo The Clown]

Here is a column that Caepci wrote up on the plots to whack Lombardo.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Jerry Capeci

Mob Prince Plotted To Whack Aging Colombo Capo


Colombo wiseguy Ralph “The Old Man” Lombardo has led a very charmed life.

First, the 80-year-old capo survived the Korean War. Then he skated through a couple of internal mob family feuds that left a score of dead bodies on the streets of New York. And in the past few years, he has evaded not one, but two assassination plots against him that were hatched by top executives of his violent crime family.

Having survived all that, Lombardo would normally be viewed today as a major player for his battered borghata. After all, the ranks of veteran Colombo family men who haven’t flipped or been flopped by the FBI lately is pretty thin. And senior statesman Lombardo has already shown leadership skills, having served on a panel of capos that helped run the family during times of strife in the late 1990s.

But in another example of its seemingly endless ability to take its best shots at its own feet, the Colombo family can’t seem to decide whether to whack Lombardo or to promote him.

This mob indecision surfaced recently in newly uncovered court documents which reveal that the mob honcho who caused much of the family turmoil back then, Alphonse Persico, was also the prime mover in the plots to kill Lombardo in the 1990s. The documents also suggest that wiseguys might still be sneaking around looking to kill the old man.

Either way, though, it’s hats off to Ralph Lombardo. He not only kept his name out of the newspapers – and Gang Land until now – he also escaped the massive Mafia Takedown that snared 127 mobsters and associates in January. And through wisdom or dumb luck, he evaded a cutthroat trio of murderous mob leaders who wanted him dead, according to court papers.

“He always was a low-key guy,” said one Gang Land source, noting that Lombardo managed to avoid taking part in any wartime strategy sessions for either of the two rival factions during the bloody Colombo war that left 12 dead from 1991 to 1993.

Indeed, one FBI report from that time-frame has him as a Persico loyalist; another has him aligned with the upstart rebels under then-acting boss Victor (Little Vic) Orena.

Lombardo earned his mob stripes in Middle Village, Queens under Joe Colombo crony Vincent Aloi during the 1960s and ‘70s. Following five years behind bars for a 1974 stock fraud conviction, he relocated to North Babylon, while maintaining a social club in Middle Village. The club’s gone now, and Lombardo has since hunkered down in Bellmore.

In late 1999, shortly after Allie Persico orchestrated the killing of then-underboss William (Wild Bill) Cutolo, the imprisoned mob prince set in motion a sinister murder plot against Lombardo for imagined – or cunningly contrived assertions – that he was a snitch, according to papers filed last month against onetime Colombo street boss Thomas (Tommy Shots) Gioeli.

In the papers, prosecutors wrote that Persico ordered Gioeli and consigliere Joel (Joe Waverly) Cacace to reward Dino (Big Dino) Calabro, the triggerman in the Cutolo hit, by inducting him into the crime family. Then, they were to place him in Lombardo’s crew so he could “get close to Lombardo” and whack him, wrote prosecutors Cristina Posa, James Gatta and Elizabeth Geddes.

Joe Waverly, who had used Calabro and Gioeli to carry out the execution murder of NYPD cop Ralph Dols two years earlier, “suggested luring Lombardo to Cacace’s boat and killing him there,” wrote the prosecutors. But the plotters were unable to get the job done.

Prosecutors state that testimony about the Lombardo murder plot will enable jurors to understand how Cutolo’s murder “enhanced Persico’s faith” in the killing ability of Gieoli’s crew, and help them better understand the murderous, “mutually beneficial relationship” that Persico enjoyed with Gioeli and Cacace.

In January 2003, Joe Waverly was arrested and jailed for four 1987 murders. With Tommy Shots consumed by the responsibilities of street boss, he “conveyed the order to another Colombo family member, but the murder was never committed,” the prosecutors wrote.

Twice more during the Aughts Decade, Lombardo would be blessed with good fortune that enabled him to become an octogenarian last August.

The first time came several months after Cacace was incarcerated – in May 2003.

That’s because Lombardo ended up safe behind bars on racketeering charges of running a major bookmaking and loansharking ring. Operating in Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island, it raked in conservatively, according to court papers, $150,000 a week interest from loans and more than $20,000 a week from the gambling end of the business.

And the way The Old Man, as his crew members were calling him then, engineered his way into prison indicates that the savvy gangster may have gotten an inkling that he was a marked man.

When he copped a plea deal in February, 2004, Lombardo asked the judge to revoke his bail immediately and send him off to federal prison. In August 2006, The Old Man was released and signed an agreement to stay away from 135 listed mobsters and associates for the next three years, something he lived up to, according to court records.

Sources say that in 2008, a year before his supervised release ended, Lombardo caught his second big break of the decade when capo Paul (Paulie Guns) Bevacqua, who had gotten the Lombardo murder contract from Tommy Shots, began cooperating.

Not only did Paulie Guns tell his FBI handlers about The Old Man murder plot, he wore a wire and enabled the feds to indict the family’s current Administration, by tape-recording chats with the family's top three wiseguys, leaving Ralph Lombardo to shift for himself, and evade the feds’ most recent assault on the mob.

The next moves are up to Lombardo, and another geezer gangster, 77-year-old Carmine (Junior) Persico, the official family boss who’s calling the Colombo family shots these days from his window seat overlooking the spacious federal prison hospital complex in Butner, North Carolina.

[SonnyBlackstein]

When was that GL dated please P?

[gohnjotti]

When was that GL dated please P?

May 26, 2011 - just after Mafia Takedown Day

[SonnyBlackstein]

When was that GL dated please P?

May 26, 2011 - just after Mafia Takedown Day