Gang Land Sep 8 2022

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Charlie
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by Charlie »

chin_gigante wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:50 am
With major help from state prosecutors, federal prosecutors in Manhattan and Brooklyn were able to file racketeering indictments against eleven family gangsters, including three capos who've allegedly been running lucrative gambling and loansharking rackets for Bellomo, and sending thousands of dollars up the chain to their family boss each month.
Well, that is certainly interesting. The prevalent theory so far had been that Chin and Bellomo barely took any money off their captains. From the looks of it Bellomo expects monthly envelopes from them.
Any sources that we know of as to west side captains having more leeway as far as kicking up ?
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SonnyBlackstein
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

Charlie wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:46 am
chin_gigante wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:50 am
...sending thousands of dollars up the chain to their family boss each month.
Well, that is certainly interesting. The prevalent theory so far had been that Chin and Bellomo barely took any money off their captains. From the looks of it Bellomo expects monthly envelopes from them.
Any sources that we know of as to west side captains having more leeway as far as kicking up ?
I'd be a little leery of this and likely putting it down to an offhand Capeci-ism vs verified info Barney requests envelopes every month. At least at this stage.

No one's flipped, certainly no Capo so how would they know? Wiretapps?? It's extraordinary unlikey associates would know who got what kick, soldiers either. I can't imagine Polito discussing with Macario how much gets funneled up and more specifically to who in the administration. Would Polito be caught on a bug discussing his kick with another Capo? With Brescico? Possibly. Even then it likely be more phrased in terms of 'I/We have to kick $X monthly' vs 'Barney specifically wants $X every month'. I can't imagine anyone in the Westside talking like that, especially a Caporegime. To name how much is going specifically to Barney, I cant see it. Acting or not.

More likely IMO, an offhand Capeci comment. I'd be cautious about reading in without some further explanation.

My opinion.
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Ryan98366
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by Ryan98366 »

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:38 pm
Charlie wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:46 am
chin_gigante wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:50 am
...sending thousands of dollars up the chain to their family boss each month.
Well, that is certainly interesting. The prevalent theory so far had been that Chin and Bellomo barely took any money off their captains. From the looks of it Bellomo expects monthly envelopes from them.
Any sources that we know of as to west side captains having more leeway as far as kicking up ?
I'd be a little leery of this and likely putting it down to an offhand Capeci-ism vs verified info Barney requests envelopes every month. At least at this stage.

No one's flipped, certainly no Capo so how would they know? Wiretapps?? It's extraordinary unlikey associates would know who got what kick, soldiers either. I can't imagine Polito discussing with Macario how much gets funneled up and more specifically to who in the administration. Would Polito be caught on a bug discussing his kick with another Capo? With Brescico? Possibly. Even then it likely be more phrased in terms of 'I/We have to kick $X monthly' vs 'Barney specifically wants $X every month'. I can't imagine anyone in the Westside talking like that, especially a Caporegime. To name how much is going specifically to Barney, I cant see it. Acting or not.

More likely IMO, an offhand Capeci comment. I'd be cautious about reading in without some further explanation.

My opinion.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by AntComello »

:P
Ryan98366 wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:33 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:38 pm
Charlie wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:46 am
chin_gigante wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:50 am
...sending thousands of dollars up the chain to their family boss each month.
Well, that is certainly interesting. The prevalent theory so far had been that Chin and Bellomo barely took any money off their captains. From the looks of it Bellomo expects monthly envelopes from them.
Any sources that we know of as to west side captains having more leeway as far as kicking up ?
I'd be a little leery of this and likely putting it down to an offhand Capeci-ism vs verified info Barney requests envelopes every month. At least at this stage.

No one's flipped, certainly no Capo so how would they know? Wiretapps?? It's extraordinary unlikey associates would know who got what kick, soldiers either. I can't imagine Polito discussing with Macario how much gets funneled up and more specifically to who in the administration. Would Polito be caught on a bug discussing his kick with another Capo? With Brescico? Possibly. Even then it likely be more phrased in terms of 'I/We have to kick $X monthly' vs 'Barney specifically wants $X every month'. I can't imagine anyone in the Westside talking like that, especially a Caporegime. To name how much is going specifically to Barney, I cant see it. Acting or not.

More likely IMO, an offhand Capeci comment. I'd be cautious about reading in without some further explanation.

My opinion.
On behalf of everyone on this board, I would like to extend our deepest condolences for the lose of your Queen Elizabeth II. I know your country of England loves the royal family.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by johnny_scootch »

I don’t know why anyone would be surprised Barney takes money from some of his Captains, it’s literally how Cosa Nostra works.
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SonnyBlackstein
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

johnny_scootch wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:52 am I don’t know why anyone would be surprised Barney takes money from some of his Captains, it’s literally how Cosa Nostra works.
Most bosses are known to get a monthly tribute, but some have requested little to no kick or a mere annual/Christmas 'gift'.

Barney was/is assumed to be one who doesn't demand a monthly kick. Hence, if true, it is somewhat surprising.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by newera_212 »

I think the Barney not taking money thing is just a continuation of the same rumors or prevalent theory that reporters gave about Gigante, and pretty much every other sitting Genovese boss that came after Vito Genovese himself. They were all allegedly 'reluctant' bosses, bucking the greedy mob boss stereotype.

I'm not sure how the Gigante not taking money thing was even substantiated or came about - but it was the ruling theory with guys like Selwyn Raab, Larry McShane, Capeci, etc. - the reporters - whenever they spoke about Gigante or were on a show giving biographical info about him.

He was "well liked" (was he though? seems like the Giovanelli and Condo wire tapped convos show at least a couple guys thought he was a miserable fuck) because he didn't demand tribute from all of his captains, on account of already having money himself and thinking if guys can keep what they earn they'll perform better and be less likely to flip.

No idea if that was ever true - but listening to Pennisi and his experience with Modern LCN, it seems like the weekly envelope thing from solider -> capo -> administration isn't always cut and dry and people weren't basically doing that in his crew. It could be that some Bosses are plugged into a "Bosses only" type of steady income racket or scheme , or maybe take money from Capos who earns from an inherited racket/business that's belonged to the family for generations, and leave other Capos alone - instead of dealing with small percentages that trickle in each week from everyone's random schemes and scores? Who knows. Using other recent bosses as examples, it sounded like Joe Massino had his own loan book that he was collecting interest personally as a sitting boss, and also sounded like Casso and Amuso were taking both 'tribute' from Capos but also from associates who were direct with them, and also seizing generational family rackets solely for themselves.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by PolackTony »

FWIW, Anthony Arilotta has stated pretty clearly that Springfield was not kicking up to “the bosses” in NYC. Based on his account it seems that the relationship was largely concerned with organizational/representational matters. Not sure if that was true for NYC/NJ-based captains.

Worth keeping in mind that if it were actually true that several capos have been “kicking up” to Bellomo, it doesn’t follow that this is necessarily “tribute”. The captains in question could be partnered with Barney in specific racket operations and/or Barney could have been an investor who provided initial capital. IOW, ROI vs “tribute”.
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Charlie
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by Charlie »

I’ve never bought into bosses not taking money off their captains.
Especially with a guy like Gigante who kept everyone on a tight leash.

He personally handled Savino and the windows racket, you best believe he was making money hand over fist with that.
Allie Shades Malangone had the Fulton fish market and garbage, you mean to tell me he pocketed the lion’s share of the profits ?

Construction, concrete, unions, gambling, loansharking, Gigante profited from it all.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by jmack »

There is no way Barney isn’t taking money from his captains. Hell, what is the point of opening yourself up to a racketeering charge as the boss with no financial gain. It makes zero sense. I’m sure he takes a reasonable amount and that is why he’s liked.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by johnny_scootch »

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:11 am
Barney was/is assumed to be one who doesn't demand a monthly kick. Hence, if true, it is somewhat surprising.
I’m not specifically addressing a monthly tribute. Maybe he’s partners with these guys in one business or another and he’s getting his percentage.

A boss taking money from his captains whether weekly monthly or annually should surprise no one.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by Frank »

JohnnyS wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:42 am Good gangland this week thanks for posting. Interesting details on the Genovese administration. So Muscarella runs the family for Barney and Ragusa is in more of a messenger role. Capeci had previously reported that Barney had took over as official boss in around 2015 but its possible he took over earlier. My guess is he was elevated to official boss once he was off supervised release which was around 2012 or 2013. It's clear he was the heir to chin and they were saving that seat for him.

Also, I wonder how long Muscarella has been the underboss. https://www.masslive.com/news/2012/04/e ... be_in.html This article claims he was the official underboss while in prison with Emilio Fusco.
I would think Muscarella became Underboss after Mangano died.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by Tonyd621 »

Ryan98366 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:35 am
Sittite wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:26 am Nothing about Grande getting sentenced???
I’m waiting for that too. Fat Dom Grande going to the big house is going to be interesting. His new wife is a piece of ass….I feel bad for the guy leaving her behind.
Yeah but who's going to want to risk it for a piece of ass? Philly is not afraid to pull the trigger. And wouldn't be the first time a rumored hit happened based on someone sleeping around with a made guys girl.
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by Browniety86 »

Tonyd621 wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:02 pm
Ryan98366 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:35 am
Sittite wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:26 am Nothing about Grande getting sentenced???
I’m waiting for that too. Fat Dom Grande going to the big house is going to be interesting. His new wife is a piece of ass….I feel bad for the guy leaving her behind.
Yeah but who's going to want to risk it for a piece of ass? Philly is not afraid to pull the trigger. And wouldn't be the first time a rumored hit happened based on someone sleeping around with a made guys girl.
Well at least he doesnt have to worry about Johnny Casasanto sniffin around...
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The Greek
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Re: Gang Land Sep 8 2022

Post by The Greek »

eboli wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:23 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:35 pm
eboli wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:01 pm I'm sure it wasn't as cut and dry, but the biggest opposition against Bellomo took place while he was still in the can and while Leo was still on the streets.
You're referring to Leo as Barneys biggest competition?
Leo was an unknown until his promo to acting, not a long term player at the top?

You had guys like Farby, Ernie, Quiet Dom, BENNY EGGS!
I'd find it a little stretch Leo had trumps on the above or Tino.

Love to hear your thoughts.
I might start a thread for a more detailed explanation, but the basic timeline is as follows:

June 1996 - Bellomo and the rest of the acting admin get indicted; Bellomo won't be a free man until December 2008 after multiple court trials
1996 - Chin creates a committee (ruling panel) with an acting boss to run the family; Dom Cirillo is the first in a series of acting bosses; Cirillo was a Chin loyalist
1998 - Cirillo steps down after suffering a heart attack; Frank Serpico, a Bellomo loyalist, takes over as the acting boss
2001 - Serpico got indicted and stepped down, died a year later in custody; Muscarella, a Bellomo loyalist, takes over as acting boss
2002 - Muscarella is demoted/stepped down after his incarceration; Arthur Nigro, a Bellomo loyalist, takes over as the acting boss
2003 - Nigro got demoted; Cirillo takes over again
2005 - the year of the three acting bosses: Cirillo, Ianniello, and Leo; the first two stepped down after facing criminal charges; Leo got promoted just before Chin passed away
2007 - Leo got indicted as the Genovese acting boss; suspicions he was on his way to becoming official before his incarceration
2007-2010 - different ruling/rotating panels with Dentico, Mangano, Fiumara, Bellomo, and Muscarella being IDd as sitting members

For half a decade between 1998 and 2003, Bellomo loyalists ran the day-to-day operations of the Genovese family. Other influential members, like Barbato, Mario Gigante, and Longo, sat on the committee, but the actual family head on the streets was always one of Bellomo's guys. Chin approved everything, of course. And Chin's brother Mario was AB for a limited time during all of this, but he was the outlier.

This deal between Bellomo and Chin likely caused friction within the family. In the Ardito-Peluso tapes, there was an in-depth discussion of how 'some guys' felt unhappy with the arrangement. Peter Peluso believed Barney was a marked man at that time if he found himself on the streets before Chin.

Then Nigro got demoted, and the Genovese had three bosses who were not Bellomo loyalists, all approved by Chin. The last one of them was Leo. Since he was the last guy appointed by Chin, and Bellomo was facing life in prison, the FBI had some info he might become official in the near future, which never materialized, but he stayed as the acting boss for 18 months after Chin passed away. After Leo's indictment, the family abandoned the committee+acting boss arrangement and established a ruling/rotating panel.

When Fiumara sat on it, he was in deep shit legally, and his health was declining. The other known members, like Dentico and Mangano, were ancient and likely semi-retired by that point. Other than them, you have Barney and Barney's guy Ernie Muscarella.

Since Bellomo took over as official boss, he's packed the administration with his friends and close associates. Petey Red was the only known 'outsider' if you can even call him that.
At one point I read that Punchy Iliano was on the ruling panel in late 90's early 2000s
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