General Mob Questions

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

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InCamelot
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by InCamelot »

HairyKnuckles wrote:Usually, the underboss is the one who is the closest to the boss. He shares the boss´s views in many things. Because the position is appointed by the boss, he can choose someone he feels comfortable with as his second in command. The underboss is supposed to act in the boss´s place whenever it´s needed, if the boss is temporarily incapacitated for example it´s the underboss´s function to meet with the captains or meet with bosses of other Families. In many ways, the underboss is the alter ego of the boss. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Sometimes, the boss appoints a leader of a powerful opposing faction as his number two, to please two wings of the Family. That has to do with the gruop dynamics within a Family. Some could argue that having two rival factions in a Family represented by the boss and the underboss respectively is a smart move. But It´s my opinion that strong leadership starts with the boss/underboss and having an underboss who represents different policy views undermines the boss´s authority. This can result in clashes, just like the one we saw with the Castellano and Dellacroce/Gotti factions.

One more thing, the underboss, due to his closeness to the boss, was not meant to be part of the administration. The original idea of an administration is to make big decisions using consensus. If the underboss is the boss´s alter ego, that would mean the boss´s view would prevail most of the times during voting for example. So the administration would normally (back in the day) consist of the boss, the consigliere and a number of powerful captains. And according to Bill Bonanno, although member of the administration, the consigliere had no vote at the administration meetings, probably because his closeness to the troops, especially the captains. I don´t know when the inner workings and rules of a Family administration changed (if it did at all) but it is said that the administration of a Family today, consists of the boss, the underboss and the consigliere.


Thanks HK! I really feel like the political dynamic is what the underboss does for the family. But in terms of the other roles such as acting in the bosses place temporarily, and not voting in admin meetings, couldn't that be all covered by the consigliere?

I mean, it seemed like families appointed street bosses and acting bosses when the boss couldn't be around, but also made sure there was at least an acting underboss (like Paul Vario at some point right?), which means that the role of the underboss seemed to be really necessary day-to-day, yet was significantly different than the street/acting/front boss(es).

What might those differences be?
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HairyKnuckles
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by HairyKnuckles »

InCamelot wrote:
Thanks HK! I really feel like the political dynamic is what the underboss does for the family. But in terms of the other roles such as acting in the bosses place temporarily, and not voting in admin meetings, couldn't that be all covered by the consigliere?

I mean, it seemed like families appointed street bosses and acting bosses when the boss couldn't be around, but also made sure there was at least an acting underboss (like Paul Vario at some point right?), which means that the role of the underboss seemed to be really necessary day-to-day, yet was significantly different than the street/acting/front boss(es).

What might those differences be?
Well there is no need for a consigliere to cover the underboss´s role during administration meetings. However, a consigliere can certainly be appointed the acting boss of a Family whenever the boss is away. He is very often a popular and therefore a powerful figure within a Family because he is supposed to be elected by the captains to the position. That´s how it used to be anyway. This system worked for many years and contributed to the bosses having a long and pleasent tenure where they actually shared some of their powers with the members of the administration. As we have seen the last 20, 25 years or so, that´s not the case anymore. The bosses of today last not that long. Being a boss today, is definitely not the same as being the boss back in the 1930s to the 1970s. The change of the system that worked for so long has a part in the misery and headaches that goes along being a boss today.

A "street boss" is whoever is the boss on the street. A captain, a consigliere, an underboss can be "street boss" if the official boss is away. I think the reason why a "street boss" is mentioned in that Capeci article regarding Barney Bellomo is probably because the Genoveses probably don´t have a fully functioning underboss at the moment, or the position is vaccant. So when the sources said about DiChiarra being "street boss", they meant that he is the captain (or possibly consigliere) who is Bellomo´s conduit to the troops. "Street boss" is a media invention for acting boss basically, but the term has been used by the mobsters themselves lately apparently. It´s life imitating art. Do you understand?
There you have it, never printed before.
InCamelot
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by InCamelot »

HairyKnuckles wrote:
InCamelot wrote:
Thanks HK! I really feel like the political dynamic is what the underboss does for the family. But in terms of the other roles such as acting in the bosses place temporarily, and not voting in admin meetings, couldn't that be all covered by the consigliere?

I mean, it seemed like families appointed street bosses and acting bosses when the boss couldn't be around, but also made sure there was at least an acting underboss (like Paul Vario at some point right?), which means that the role of the underboss seemed to be really necessary day-to-day, yet was significantly different than the street/acting/front boss(es).

What might those differences be?
A "street boss" is whoever is the boss on the street. A captain, a consigliere, an underboss can be "street boss" if the official boss is away. I think the reason why a "street boss" is mentioned in that Capeci article regarding Barney Bellomo is probably because the Genoveses probably don´t have a fully functioning underboss at the moment, or the position is vaccant. So when the sources said about DiChiarra being "street boss", they meant that he is the captain (or possibly consigliere) who is Bellomo´s conduit to the troops. "Street boss" is a media invention for acting boss basically, but the term has been used by the mobsters themselves lately apparently. It´s life imitating art. Do you understand?
Not quite, but thank you I may be almost there.
So from what you said above, it seems "acting boss" does what an underboss would do if the boss was away. But what if he wasn't? Or what if there was another acting boss in place? When let's say Fat Tony Salerno was acting boss, and Chin was the real boss, what was Sammy Santora's role?
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HairyKnuckles
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by HairyKnuckles »

InCamelot wrote:
HairyKnuckles wrote:
InCamelot wrote:
Thanks HK! I really feel like the political dynamic is what the underboss does for the family. But in terms of the other roles such as acting in the bosses place temporarily, and not voting in admin meetings, couldn't that be all covered by the consigliere?

I mean, it seemed like families appointed street bosses and acting bosses when the boss couldn't be around, but also made sure there was at least an acting underboss (like Paul Vario at some point right?), which means that the role of the underboss seemed to be really necessary day-to-day, yet was significantly different than the street/acting/front boss(es).

What might those differences be?
A "street boss" is whoever is the boss on the street. A captain, a consigliere, an underboss can be "street boss" if the official boss is away. I think the reason why a "street boss" is mentioned in that Capeci article regarding Barney Bellomo is probably because the Genoveses probably don´t have a fully functioning underboss at the moment, or the position is vaccant. So when the sources said about DiChiarra being "street boss", they meant that he is the captain (or possibly consigliere) who is Bellomo´s conduit to the troops. "Street boss" is a media invention for acting boss basically, but the term has been used by the mobsters themselves lately apparently. It´s life imitating art. Do you understand?
Not quite, but thank you I may be almost there.
So from what you said above, it seems "acting boss" does what an underboss would do if the boss was away. But what if he wasn't? Or what if there was another acting boss in place? When let's say Fat Tony Salerno was acting boss, and Chin was the real boss, what was Sammy Santora's role?
Yeah, according to rules and regulations. But, if he feels like it, a boss can appoint some other member of his Family to act for him when he is away too. This other member can be a captain, consigliere or underboss. Salerno was the underboss, but it seems to me that Chin delegated tasks for him to carry out for example induction ceremonies, represent the Genovese Family during Commission meetings, meet with other bosses or members from other Families etc. In this regard, it was standard La Cosa Nostra protocol. A boss can delagate these kind of tasks to his underboss if he feels like it. Sammy Santora was a captain who headed the 116th Street crew. It appears that he filled in for Salerno when needed. So at times, he was the acting underboss and possibly the official underboss later when Salerno was indicted.
There you have it, never printed before.
InCamelot
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by InCamelot »

HairyKnuckles wrote:
InCamelot wrote:
HairyKnuckles wrote:
InCamelot wrote:
Thanks HK! I really feel like the political dynamic is what the underboss does for the family. But in terms of the other roles such as acting in the bosses place temporarily, and not voting in admin meetings, couldn't that be all covered by the consigliere?

I mean, it seemed like families appointed street bosses and acting bosses when the boss couldn't be around, but also made sure there was at least an acting underboss (like Paul Vario at some point right?), which means that the role of the underboss seemed to be really necessary day-to-day, yet was significantly different than the street/acting/front boss(es).

What might those differences be?
A "street boss" is whoever is the boss on the street. A captain, a consigliere, an underboss can be "street boss" if the official boss is away. I think the reason why a "street boss" is mentioned in that Capeci article regarding Barney Bellomo is probably because the Genoveses probably don´t have a fully functioning underboss at the moment, or the position is vaccant. So when the sources said about DiChiarra being "street boss", they meant that he is the captain (or possibly consigliere) who is Bellomo´s conduit to the troops. "Street boss" is a media invention for acting boss basically, but the term has been used by the mobsters themselves lately apparently. It´s life imitating art. Do you understand?
Not quite, but thank you I may be almost there.
So from what you said above, it seems "acting boss" does what an underboss would do if the boss was away. But what if he wasn't? Or what if there was another acting boss in place? When let's say Fat Tony Salerno was acting boss, and Chin was the real boss, what was Sammy Santora's role?
Yeah, according to rules and regulations. But, if he feels like it, a boss can appoint some other member of his Family to act for him when he is away too. This other member can be a captain, consigliere or underboss. Salerno was the underboss, but it seems to me that Chin delegated tasks for him to carry out for example induction ceremonies, represent the Genovese Family during Commission meetings, meet with other bosses or members from other Families etc. In this regard, it was standard La Cosa Nostra protocol. A boss can delagate these kind of tasks to his underboss if he feels like it. Sammy Santora was a captain who headed the 116th Street crew. It appears that he filled in for Salerno when needed. So at times, he was the acting underboss and possibly the official underboss later when Salerno was indicted.
Thanks HK!
Eddie mush
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by Eddie mush »

Other than opening legit business what are some other ways these guys who make serious money do with there cash ?? There is only so much u can burry in your walls lol
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DPG
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by DPG »

So I'm reading up on prohibition St Louis (Gangs on St Louis), has anyone here ever got into St Louis? Like actually put a family together? It seems kinda all over the place to me.
I get it....first rule of fight club.
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AG777
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by AG777 »

Eddie mush wrote:Other than opening legit business what are some other ways these guys who make serious money do with there cash ?? There is only so much u can burry in your walls lol
Most are degenerate gamblers so they gamble like there's no tomorrow. Then, they have at least one girlfriend "gumad" on the side who they buy a place for to live, jewelry, clothes, spending money, it all adds up. Some even have two separate families. Kids with their wife, kids with their girlfriend. They do everything lavishly, stay at the best hotels, drink the best liquor, nothing is too good or too costly for them.

Hopefully, the smart ones use that money for their kids education. 9 times out 10 a son following in his father's footsteps in that life can never live up to the father's rep. He should just stick to getting an education.

That's my 2 cents. :mrgreen:
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Sol
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by Sol »

DPG wrote:So I'm reading up on prohibition St Louis (Gangs on St Louis), has anyone here ever got into St Louis? Like actually put a family together? It seems kinda all over the place to me.
Welcome aboard the Black Hand DPG.......Soliai
Giacomo_Vacari
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by Giacomo_Vacari »

They also buy houses under their real names and start charging rent. For safe houses they use a family member who has no trouble with the law, use it as a second house to keep it stocked, furnished and make sure that members leaving and going who are on the lam are to non essent, as only the owner should be spotted.
Of course those are the smart ones. Most mobsters are degenerate gamblers who spends a lot of their money only thinking of their next score instead of saving some of their money as AG has said above.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by Angelo Santino »

DPG wrote:So I'm reading up on prohibition St Louis (Gangs on St Louis), has anyone here ever got into St Louis? Like actually put a family together? It seems kinda all over the place to me.
I did several years ago. The Sicilian Mafia goes back to 1870 in that city. However other gangs flourished which were dealt with in an amicable fashion. Egan's Rats who were predominantly Irish comes to mind.
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DPG
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by DPG »

Thanks for the welcome....From what I'm reading The Rats didn't last long but prohibition St Louis does read a lot different for the Italians than anywhere else I've read aboout.
I get it....first rule of fight club.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by Angelo Santino »

There was a book released about the St. Louis Mafia history, I don't remember the name but I believe Antiliar is in touch with him. It might also go into the other groups. Ask him.

Antiliar is Richard Warner, I don't remember his RD handle but I believe you and him spoke before. He co-authored the article I referred you to.
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SonnyBlackstein
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

Question concerning Sonny Franzese.

What role did he play in the Columbo wars? Was he a captain then? Was he aligned with Orena or Persico? Any info appreciated.

Cheers
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: General Mob Questions

Post by Pogo The Clown »

I believe he was in prison during the war. Not sure if he still held his Capo rank at the time or what role he played from behind bars.


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