UTC wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 9:11 pm
I don't know why my post became imbedded like that above. Anyway, I negotiated with Local 1814 for decades on the port. I've bargained with federal monitors there and have been subpoenaed to testify in corruption cases regarding my counterparts on the labor side. I deposed Anthony Scotto about a secondary boycott when he was in prison. On the other side of the river yes there is still some, but bush league in comparison. I have also headed multi-employer construction bargaining in Westchester and the Bronx for heavy equipment operators, and tried the major manning grievance for the New York and Baltimore Shipping associations. Some people on the forums have known that in detail. So I have a little flavor of it myself.
Bush league in comparison to what? Nobody is saying the influence is like it was decadea ago but the ILA locals on the Jersey waterfront have continued to be among the most mobbed up over the last 20 years. And repeated cases show that. Hell, the president of the ILA and Local 1804-1 is a known Genovese associate. If you want to argue labor racketeering isn't a core racket for the mob anymore, that's not a good place to start.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 10:06 pmNow the Violis, I just dont have enough info on them. I have no idea WHO they answer to, an American family, or are they an Ndrangheta ndrine. And I have no clue exactly what " Todaro family" means. But I dont automatically assume it HAS to be what was traditionally
WAS/IS the Buffalo family.
I wanted to see what everyone else thought, I still do actually....
I think it's obvious that when the Feds refered to "members of the Todaro organized crime family" in that press release, they were talking about formally initiated members of the Buffalo LCN.
But that's all it was - some Buffalo members among those caught up in that bust. And it shouldn't be stretched or construed to the point where some would like to use it as a reason to argue there is still a viable family there.
Last edited by Wiseguy on Wed May 09, 2018 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
UTC wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 10:56 pm
You have absolutely no perspective on the issue at all. And to even mention a few no show jobs as part of "core".
Perspective huh? I'll take the evidence I can actually show and people can examine over your anecdotal claims any day.
The mob's drug trafficking amounts to selling some pills and it's labor rackets amount to a few no show jobs huh? That's some perspective there.
The more you talk, the more you sound like blindman.
And I said 1814 (Scotto, Scollo, Pernice) not 1804-1. Hell, the President of Howland Hook Terminal might as well have been an associate years ago.
I realize you were talking about Local 1814 in Brooklyn. I brought up Local 1804-1 because of your "bushleage" comment about the Jersey side.
You are so into this rain man style persona that you think passes for debating or "truth saying" that it's absurd. And yes, I consider the activity bush league. And you consider the same stuff big time. What a shocker. And you know nothing about it at all, anecdotal or otherwise, other than the scattered things you read over the last ten years which you have determined shows something momentous.
And you don't have a monopoly on newspapers. I have all that information, and so does the rest of the world. You're not adding. You just have a different opinion on the same stuff, made with no perspective.
UTC wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 11:16 pm
You are so into this rain man style persona that you think passes for debating or "truth saying" that it's absurd. And yes, I consider the activity bush league. And you consider the same stuff big time. What a shocker. And you know nothing about it at all, anecdotal or otherwise, other than the scattered things you read over the last ten years which you have determined shows something momentous.
I consider it to be a case of what I originally said - while being much reduced from the past (in some areas more than others) labor/business racketeering is still a core racket for the mob. The evidence shows as much, no matter how much you try to deny it or minimize it. As if anyone should ignore the evidence and just take your word for it just because you say so. We're online, pal. Your anecdotal info counts for shit.
Mob labor racketeering a few no show jobs. Mob drug trafficking selling some pills. What's next, mob gambling is a few card games in the back of a Pizza Hut after hours?
And you don't have a monopoly on newspapers. I have all that information, and so does the rest of the world. You're not adding. You just have a different opinion on the same stuff, made with no perspective.
That's just it. The evidence - as shown not only in news articles but in indictments as well statements by law enforcement and OC experts - is there for all to see. It can be independently viewed and judged in the balance. Your claims about yourself can't. And what you say doesn't seem to be so much about perspective as having an agenda as shown by a pattern of minimization and denial.
You still don't get it. You're so into this repartee for its own sake. I'm taking the same evidence you are and we have different adjectives for it. If the mob toolbox is so tiny that this bush league stuff is a significant percentage of it than so be it. Your interpretation of the data with no perspective is sub-anecdotal. Your opinion of it, and my opinion of it, doesn't count for shit.
UTC wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 11:38 pm
You still don't get it. You're so into this repartee for its own sake. I'm taking the same evidence you are and we have different adjectives for it. If the mob toolbox is so tiny that this bush league stuff is a significant percentage of it than so be it. Your interpretation of the data with no perspective is sub-anecdotal. Your opinion of it, and my opinion of it, doesn't count for shit.
If you call it bush league in terms of comparison to the past, that's one thing. But it's hard to believe you're making an accurate assessment when you sum up mob labor racketeering as a few no show jobs. That's what leads me to believe that, although they're there for you to see, you aren't aware of many of those cases I mentioned before. You haven't bothered to actually look into them and see that it often goes beyond what you claim it does. You wouldn't be the first I have encountered on these boards that thinks their micro-level, personal experience affords them them the same insight a macro-level variety of sources covering a lot more ground does.
UTC wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 11:50 pm
"And what you say doesn't seem to be so much about perspective as having an agenda as shown by a pattern of minimization and denial."
Actually that's interesting. theoretically, what would be the motive for anyone to have such an agenda?
That's a good question. Regarding blindman, I wondered if he was simply in denial because he felt ongoing mob activity with the unions was an insult to his chosen profession and he wanted to whitewash the whole thing. One might assume that could be your reasoning too but, given what you think mob involvement in the drug trade is, it seems more likely you're just not up to speed with the modern day mob.
maninblack wrote:I think New York, Montagna, Desjardins and the Ndrangheta in Canada (The Violi's ) all probably agreed to try to take Montreal and start a new arrangement.
This is how I see it too and most evidence points towards it. I do believe there were more significant players from Ontario involved than the Violis. Commisso, Coluccio and Di Maria in particular.
It's just crazy the balls Desjardins had for taking out Montagna. There is still a lot to learn about this...
Wow, I'm surprised. You know I wanted to post what I thought right away, but I figured it would get shut down. So I waited to hear from everyone, but yeah, I'm in agreement as well...
