Kansas City Mob Today

[7digits]

Also the FBI is literally indicting and investigating them as we speak…

[Pogo The Clown]

Sorry but 2017 is not “20 and 30 years” ago. A few years after these remarks yet another head of the Buffalo FBI field office also said the family was gone (which Wiseguy quoted earlier in this thread). So that is two of the top Feds in Buffalo outright telling you the family is gone. But go on living in your fantasy world.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Your nuts man. You keep saying confirmed members but that’s not by the feds it’s only your confirmation based on information you have access to. If you were in the FBI OC Squad in Buffalo I’m sure your list of made members in Buffalo would be much longer. Just like you have the underboss off the family describing on tape that he was just made underboss in Florida and that the family has about 30 members. Unless you’re saying he’s making that entire story up which makes 0 sense

You're going on assumptions without looking at the collective evidence. In 2006, the FBI had the family at 23 members. Since that time, 15 known members have died. Violi's "30 guys" statement is a data point but you can't look at it in isolation. If you honestly think Buffalo has made over 20 new members over that time period, not only to get back to where they were in 2006, but get to over 30 members to warrant Violi's claim, I don't know what to tell you.

As much as people have tried to overhype the Violi bust and the cases around Bongiovanni, Buffalo really hasn't been a hotbed of mob activity over the past 25 years. Since 2000, there have been a grand total of two made guys indicted, one in Buffalo and one in Canada. That's comparable to places like Rochester (2), NE PA (1), Pittsburgh (1), Detroit (2), Kansas City (3), and Tampa (2) over the same time period.

And isn't it interesting that not a single additional member can be positively named beyond the 11 we know of. Which, by the way, makes much more sense mathematically with the membership estimates over the years and the members who have died than Violi's 30+ figure. Seriously, what family has two-thirds of it's membership unknown and flying under the radar?

Until some of you guys learn to differentiate between a Mafia family and individual remnants of such engaged residual crimes, you will forever be playing catch up. in You're simply out of your depth.

[Newyorkempire]

Lmao. Keep going. Round and round. You're nauseating

[Wiseguy]

Lmao. Keep going. Round and round. You're nauseating

Facts are stubborn things.

[Newyorkempire]

Facts decided by you aren't stubborn. Not everyone believes your "facts". Get the fuck over it or come out with a book, a website, or start writing for newspapers to push your facts.

[NickleCity]

And isn't it interesting that not a single additional member can be positively named beyond the 11 we know of. Which, by the way, makes much more sense mathematically with the membership estimates over the years and the members who have died than Violi's 30+ figure. Seriously, what family has two-thirds of it's membership unknown and flying under the radar?

Masecchia, Bella and Gerace have all been identified as suspected made men according to recent court documents. Masecchia had non-member cooperators identify him as a made man in court. Perhaps they are just suspected members because there has been no cooperating member sources. Historically, there have been very few cooperating member sources in the Buffalo family. Another reason no members have been identified recently. That could mean the family is dead or its alive and there just aren't any cooperators. The recent court activity (both in US and Canada) and related documents could very well point to the family being alive and active. Documents like this one:

Not only did the Kingsmen OC member make connections with high making mafiosos and members of the Outlaws and say they wanted Prosecutor Tripi and Chief Judge Wolford executed at the Gerace trial. And latter the feds talk about the fact that "the mafia has a well-documented history of intimidating and otherwise attempting to silence witnesses thorough violence and acts of violence and/or retaliating against wintess who have provided information to law enforcement."

[NickleCity]

The Mafia, and the way of life that fostered the Mafia, is pretty much gone,” said Lee Coppola, 73, a former federal prosecutor and news reporter who grew up among mobsters and their families on Buffalo’s West Side.

And Coppola not only grew up among mobsters and their families but it is likely two of his uncles were members... One being well respected by mafia hierarchy in WNY and Southern Ontario. Additionally Coppola was recently told by the FBI that a "close family member" in the mafia had protected him. Other uncles were tied to the mafia and it even looks like his Dad was present and arrested at a mob run gambling ring bust.

Coppola was also appointed to his prosecutor position by Vacco. Fino indicates Vacco was put in his position by the mob. Vacco had his office move their attention away from the mob and look at street gangs. Makes me wonder if that is why Vocco said this:

“Vacco said he would like the task force to have more involvement in prosecutions of organized crime groups other than Italians, such as the LA Boys street gang in Buffalo.””

Also, interesting Coppola was placed in charge of drug investigations... especially given his uncle was known to have run drugs between mafioso in NYC and sell in Buffalo.

Of course this may be nothing... but it is certainly seems more than coincidence to me.

[Newyorkempire]

Amen....again

[Wiseguy]

And isn't it interesting that not a single additional member can be positively named beyond the 11 we know of. Which, by the way, makes much more sense mathematically with the membership estimates over the years and the members who have died than Violi's 30+ figure. Seriously, what family has two-thirds of it's membership unknown and flying under the radar?

Masecchia, Bella and Gerace have all been identified as suspected made men according to recent court documents. Masecchia had non-member cooperators identify him as a made man in court. Perhaps they are just suspected members because there has been no cooperating member sources. Historically, there have been very few cooperating member sources in the Buffalo family. Another reason no members have been identified recently. That could mean the family is dead or its alive and there just aren't any cooperators. The recent court activity (both in US and Canada) and related documents could very well point to the family being alive and active. Documents like this one:

Not only did the Kingsmen OC member make connections with high making mafiosos and members of the Outlaws and say they wanted Prosecutor Tripi and Chief Judge Wolford executed at the Gerace trial. And latter the feds talk about the fact that "the mafia has a well-documented history of intimidating and otherwise attempting to silence witnesses thorough violence and acts of violence and/or retaliating against wintess who have provided information to law enforcement."

None of them have been positively identified as a made member. Messechia, for example, was labeled either a member or associate. In other words, the feds haven't established if the local high school teacher is actually made or not. People can "suspect" until the cows come home. It doesn't mean a whole lot. That not one of the several names floated as a "suspected member" can be verified as a member should tell you something. You keep trying to carve out a grey area of maybe's and could be's where the Buffalo mob can take its last gasps. It's doomed to fail. And you're going to disappoint Newyorkempire. He's going to be like a kid at Christmas expecting a Red Ryder BB gun only to get a water pistol. Then what are you going to do?

[Newyorkempire]

Again. Due to the extremely high rate of contradictory verbiage used by the Feds for decades they aren't the primary source you hoped they are or the end all say for people who know there's a "gray" area. I loved the Super Soakers growing up by the way

Were the ones who aren't waiting for you tell use that a member is verified by an untrustworthy and inconsistent source to begin with. But keep going. This is finally headed towards a concensus.

Why do you want to spend your whole life convincing people that don't believe you to believe you?

[Pogo The Clown]

Again. Due to the extremely high rate of contradictory verbiage used by the Feds for decades they aren't the primary source you hoped they are or the end all say for people who know there's a "gray" area. I loved the Super Soakers growing up by the way

Were the ones who aren't waiting for you tell use that a member is verified by an untrustworthy source to begin with. But keep going. This is finally headed towards a concensus

Translation: The Feds have repeatedly said what I don’t want to hear so I will reject them as the best source in order to keep my fantasy alive.


This is what living in delusion looks like people.


Pogo

[Newyorkempire]

Again. Due to the extremely high rate of contradictory verbiage used by the Feds for decades they aren't the primary source you hoped they are or the end all say for people who know there's a "gray" area. I loved the Super Soakers growing up by the way

Were the ones who aren't waiting for you tell use that a member is verified by an untrustworthy source to begin with. But keep going. This is finally headed towards a concensus

Translation: The Feds have repeatedly said what I don’t want to hear so I will reject them as the best source in order to keep my fantasy alive.


This is what living in delusion looks like people.


Pogo

Federal, local and international law enforcement has actually said the exact opposite. So you're confused about the confusion? I don't get it or do I?

Just because you keep saying the same thing doesn't mean anyone believes you. Are you really this stupid to not understand that?

I love the fact you guys keep arguing this to death years and years later. Such losers

[Pogo The Clown]

Federal, local and international law enforcement has actually said the exact opposite.

Several statements from the heads of the Buffalo FBI were just posted in this very thread disproving this lie of yours.


Again this is what living in delusion looks like people.


Pogo

[NickleCity]

None of them have been positively identified as a made member. Messechia, for example, was labeled either a member or associate. In other words, the feds haven't established if the local high school teacher is actually made or not. People can "suspect" until the cows come home. It doesn't mean a whole lot. That not one of the several names floated as a "suspected member" can be verified as a member should tell you something. You keep trying to carve out a grey area of maybe's and could be's where the Buffalo mob can take its last gasps. It's doomed to fail. And you're going to disappoint Newyorkempire. He's going to be like a kid at Christmas expecting a Red Ryder BB gun only to get a water pistol. Then what are you going to do?

My point is there are no member sources…
to positively ID a member (primary criteria). Just because there are no cooperating members doesn’t mean there are no members it just means there is no members who have come to positively ID other members. This is a big issue with the Feds for families that have few cooperators. They have no way of positively identifying suspected members. Now if you couple court/fed identified suspected member along with other information released in court documents you get a (IMHO) much better picture of the Buffalo family. The Feds aren not going to bring up the history of the mob silencing witnesses of their is no case to be made that the mob is silencing witnesses… It also telling that their verbiage tends to (IMHO) emphasize the Mafia and IOC over and above the OMC’s. Yes, the fact that no member source has identified Buffalo members in years could mean the family is dead. It could also mean the family is not dead and is not talking … taking omertà seriously.