General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Antiliar]

I watched an entire podcast (not naming names) where this Wild Bunch was discussed and how so and so was the "capo" of this crew and Nick cleared it right up here:

Q. Mr. Calabrese, you mentioned the Wild Bunch not too
long ago and I believe you mentioned them yesterday. Who
was, I guess for a lack of a better term, the boss of the
Wild Bunch?
A. Joe Ferriola.
Q. And I think you may have said that he wasn't exactly a
capo?
A. No.
Q. What was his role in the Outfit structure?
A. He had these guys, the Wild Bunch, under him, and he
used to -- when Turk was the capo, he used to go deal
directly with Turk, he would turn in to Turk.

Q. You also mentioned the Wild Bunch.
You mentioned the Wild Bunch, Mr. Calabrese, can you
tell us whether the Wild Bunch had a leader, a capo or a
captain?
A. The guy that was in charge of them but wasn't a capo was
Joe Ferriola.

I don't understand what's so hard about this. I don't even know what the Wild Bunch is but I can read transcripts. Do they think Nick Calabrese is lying or is it that the structure is boring so lets describe things differently than what it is? This "family-building" stuff is a detriment to understanding this topic, especially in the case of Chicago.

Piggybacking on what Tony wrote, here's some things to keep in mind:

1) New information has to be interpreted in comparison to previous information. Tony mentioned Gerry Scarpelli, who was not only a made member (although for only a short time), but a member of the Ferriola's own crew. This means Scarpelli had intimate knowledge of Ferriola and his crew. Frank Cullotta, although he probably was never made, interacted with Ferriola and believed he was not only a capo, but boss of the entire Outfit. It's possible that the FBI had other sources that named Ferriola as a capo as well. So this is a serious discrepancy.

2) New information also has to be interpreted in the totality of its historical context. In court testimony lawyers expect direct answers to direct questions. Calabrese was giving direct answers to what he knew or came to believe during an earlier time period. He was often hesitant and sometimes struggled to give answers, suggesting that he wasn't comfortable testifying.

Likewise, we see on direct questioning that he was asked about the hierarchy and structure of the Outfit from 1969 to 2002. Calabrese answered according to what stood out in his mind. "Johnny Bananas" headed Elmwood Park, Vincent Solano headed Rush Street, The Wild Bunch was another crew, but he didn't immediately say who led the crew. He said there was a crew in the Heights, but didn't say who headed it either until the prosecutor followed up. He then said it was Pilotto followed by Palermo. Mitch Mars asked if there were any other crews. He said James Marcello had a crew. Mars had to follow up again to find out who was the boss of the crew. He said it was Sam Carlisi, although Carlisi became boss in 1986, and in 1996 Carlisi, Marcello and others were sent to prison, leaving John DiFronzo, the underboss, in charge. DiFronzo then designated Johnny Apes Monteleone to run the Outfit and Al Tornabene of the Carlisi crew as his underboss. So the historical context in Calabrese's mind must have been during Aiuppa's reign.

Although Mitch Mars asked if there were other crews, Calabrese only named one, but there were others. So Mars asked him if there was a crew around Grand Avenue. Calabrese said there was. Mars asked asked who the capo was and Calabrese said it was Joey Lombardo. So we can see that Calabrese wasn't volunteering complete answers. It was like pulling teeth. Mars returned to asking about the Wild Bunch and if it had a capo or captain. He said it was led by Ferriola, but he wasn't a capo. Although Mars should have known how this conflicted with previous information, he didn't follow up. As we've noted about government agents before, they're interested in prosecutions, not history. On the other hand, a follow up could have opened up a can of worms and diminished the credibility of the witness, so Mars went on to his next question.

Mitch Mars then asked about Louis Eboli. For some reason Calabrese suddenly had trouble hearing the questions and giving answers. He said he believed Eboli was a captain because he had direct access to Aiuppa and acknowledged that he had a crew, but name only one associate of Eboli, Jeeps Daddino. Other sources reveal that Eboli had been a member of Joey Lombardo's crew. Eboli died in 1987 when Calabrese was on the street (Lombardo was in prison). Anthony Centracchio allegedly replaced Eboli until his death in 2001, but Calabrese never mentioned him. All of this suggests that Calabrese's experience in the Outfit was very insulated. I imagine if someone from another crew testified he wouldn't have named Calabrese since he probably wouldn't have been aware of him. Information on other members was passed on a need-to-know basis. At any rate, Mars then went on to ask about the so-called Last Supper photo.

Calabrese was out on the street until 1995 when he was indicted. He was sentenced to 5 - 10 years in 1997. He was due to come out in early 2003 when his prison records suddenly disappeared and it was suspected he went into witness protection. We know what happened from there.

[PolackTony]

I watched an entire podcast (not naming names) where this Wild Bunch was discussed and how so and so was the "capo" of this crew and Nick cleared it right up here:

Q. Mr. Calabrese, you mentioned the Wild Bunch not too
long ago and I believe you mentioned them yesterday. Who
was, I guess for a lack of a better term, the boss of the
Wild Bunch?
A. Joe Ferriola.
Q. And I think you may have said that he wasn't exactly a
capo?
A. No.
Q. What was his role in the Outfit structure?
A. He had these guys, the Wild Bunch, under him, and he
used to -- when Turk was the capo, he used to go deal
directly with Turk, he would turn in to Turk.

Q. You also mentioned the Wild Bunch.
You mentioned the Wild Bunch, Mr. Calabrese, can you
tell us whether the Wild Bunch had a leader, a capo or a
captain?
A. The guy that was in charge of them but wasn't a capo was
Joe Ferriola.

I don't understand what's so hard about this. I don't even know what the Wild Bunch is but I can read transcripts. Do they think Nick Calabrese is lying or is it that the structure is boring so lets describe things differently than what it is? This "family-building" stuff is a detriment to understanding this topic, especially in the case of Chicago.

Piggybacking on what Tony wrote, here's some things to keep in mind:

1) New information has to be interpreted in comparison to previous information. Tony mentioned Gerry Scarpelli, who was not only a made member (although for only a short time), but a member of the Ferriola's own crew. This means Scarpelli had intimate knowledge of Ferriola and his crew. Frank Cullotta, although he probably was never made, interacted with Ferriola and believed he was not only a capo, but boss of the entire Outfit. It's possible that the FBI had other sources that named Ferriola as a capo as well. So this is a serious discrepancy.

2) New information also has to be interpreted in the totality of its historical context. In court testimony lawyers expect direct answers to direct questions. Calabrese was giving direct answers to what he knew or came to believe during an earlier time period. He was often hesitant and sometimes struggled to give answers, suggesting that he wasn't comfortable testifying.

Likewise, we see on direct questioning that he was asked about the hierarchy and structure of the Outfit from 1969 to 2002. Calabrese answered according to what stood out in his mind. "Johnny Bananas" headed Elmwood Park, Vincent Solano headed Rush Street, The Wild Bunch was another crew, but he didn't immediately say who led the crew. He said there was a crew in the Heights, but didn't say who headed it either until the prosecutor followed up. He then said it was Pilotto followed by Palermo. Mitch Mars asked if there were any other crews. He said James Marcello had a crew. Mars had to follow up again to find out who was the boss of the crew. He said it was Sam Carlisi, although Carlisi became boss in 1986, and in 1996 Carlisi, Marcello and others were sent to prison, leaving John DiFronzo, the underboss, in charge. DiFronzo then designated Johnny Apes Monteleone to run the Outfit and Al Tornabene of the Carlisi crew as his underboss. So the historical context in Calabrese's mind must have been during Aiuppa's reign.

Although Mitch Mars asked if there were other crews, Calabrese only named one, but there were others. So Mars asked him if there was a crew around Grand Avenue. Calabrese said there was. Mars asked asked who the capo was and Calabrese said it was Joey Lombardo. So we can see that Calabrese wasn't volunteering complete answers. It was like pulling teeth. Mars returned to asking about the Wild Bunch and if it had a capo or captain. He said it was led by Ferriola, but he wasn't a capo. Although Mars should have known how this conflicted with previous information, he didn't follow up. As we've noted about government agents before, they're interested in prosecutions, not history. On the other hand, a follow up could have opened up a can of worms and diminished the credibility of the witness, so Mars went on to his next question.

Mitch Mars then asked about Louis Eboli. For some reason Calabrese suddenly had trouble hearing the questions and giving answers. He said he believed Eboli was a captain because he had direct access to Aiuppa and acknowledged that he had a crew, but name only one associate of Eboli, Jeeps Daddino. Other sources reveal that Eboli had been a member of Joey Lombardo's crew. Eboli died in 1987 when Calabrese was on the street (Lombardo was in prison). Anthony Centracchio allegedly replaced Eboli until his death in 2001, but Calabrese never mentioned him. All of this suggests that Calabrese's experience in the Outfit was very insulated. I imagine if someone from another crew testified he wouldn't have named Calabrese since he probably wouldn't have been aware of him. Information on other members was passed on a need-to-know basis. At any rate, Mars then went on to ask about the so-called Last Supper photo.

Calabrese was out on the street until 1995 when he was indicted. He was sentenced to 5 - 10 years in 1997. He was due to come out in early 2003 when his prison records suddenly disappeared and it was suspected he went into witness protection. We know what happened from there.

Yes, and all important points.

Calabrese’s info was clearly limited, even as a member, by internal compartmentalization and insulation within the organization. This was a Family where, as Nick testified, it was all rental considered inappropriate for an acting captain to tell one of his soldiers who had been made in the most recent ceremony. One was only supposed to know that a guy was made if they were introduced as such. And they didn’t send memos, of course, when guys got bumped up or transferred, etc.

Also important to keep in mind that Nick had previously himself been an associate of the Buccieri crew, before LaPietra was put in as capo of Chinatown. So Nick had likely known Ferriola as a solider in that crew and the “Wild Bunch” as associates under Ferriola. From the late 70s on, Nick was no longer with that crew, so in his mind, maybe Ferriola was never a capo, so far as he had been told. If Mars had drilled down on him like “Yes, but after LaPietra became capo of Chinatown and Torello died, what capo were the other guys who had been under Torello under?”. Maybe Nick would’ve replied that he wasn’t sure, as he wasn’t sure about Eboli (but could only “surmise” that the latter was a capo), but who knows. The question was never put to him like that.

With Grand Ave, Nick was only able to name one guy under Lombardo, a “tall guy named Jimmy”, obviously Legs D’Antonio. And Nick was originally from that neighborhood, but again, this stuff was on a need-to-know basis and for the stuff that Nick was doing, he didn’t need to know.

[cavita]

And for the same reason "Gumba" Saladino was never boss of Rockford as I've been saying all along. Nick's "threat assessment" which included Gumba, stated that information indicated he was boss of Rockford but as I've stated, that's what Nick believed or was led to believe. I knew Frank, knew he was made and that he was afforded much respect around Rockford but he never had the intelligence to be boss. Now, I believe at the very least he was a capo, street gambling boss, or what have you after Sebastian Gulotta died.

[PolackTony]

And for the same reason "Gumba" Saladino was never boss of Rockford as I've been saying all along. Nick's "threat assessment" which included Gumba, stated that information indicated he was boss of Rockford but as I've stated, that's what Nick believed or was led to believe. I knew Frank, knew he was made and that he was afforded much respect around Rockford but he never had the intelligence to be boss. Now, I believe at the very least he was a capo, street gambling boss, or what have you after Sebastian Gulotta died.

Yeah, for sure. One really wonders, given that Nick had such little insight into Lombardo's crew, what he even would've known about Rockford.

IIRC, the only time that Nick even mentioned Gumba in his actual testimony was when he noted that Gumba was with them during their attempt to set up and whack Sam Annerino. Nothing about Saladino's ties to Rockford came up at all. Nick briefly mentioned Rockford only to note that they once tailed Michael Cagnoni up there when he went to a funeral home (wonder if it had been Oliveri?). Richie Mara mentioned Gumba in his testimony, of course, and noted that he came to Chicago from Rockford via his friendship with Ronnie Jarrett, as Gumba and Ronnie had been locked up in Pontiac together.

As with a lot of these questions, I'd really very much like to see what Nick's 302 has in it.

[Antiliar]

For context on Tony's new avatar: https://youtu.be/pJy9EFf-tiM

Now go order some new windaz from Super Sash because sometimes the old ones have an unfortunate way of getting broken - just like arms and legs.

[Ivan]

For context on Tony's new avatar: https://youtu.be/pJy9EFf-tiM

Now go order some new windaz from Super Sash because sometimes the old ones have an unfortunate way of getting broken - just like arms and legs.

thought this was Toots Caruso for a second

[Angelo Santino]

Tony and Antiliar, thank you both for your responses. They were both interesting, informative and enlightening. Thank you for providing context.

My issues has less to do with Ferriola and more to do with the fact that this so-called Wild Bunch doesn't appear to be a decina but rather a "street crew" (associates I would think). My takeaway was that there was no "capo" of the Wild Bunch, they answered to a soldier, but even if they did eventually answer to a Capodecina, it wouldn't make, in this case we"ll say Ferriola, a duo capo of the formal Taylor St/Cicero and The Wild Bunch, not in a formal perspective. And seeing people speak about it like it was a formal crew with half-mexican made members just made me question why they don't look to the first and only member in Chicago's history to discuss It.

But thank you for the info on Ferriola. If by my response either of you feel there's something I'm overlooking or that I'm "still not getting it," by all means, I'm all ears.

[Snakes]

Tony and Antiliar, thank you both for your responses. They were both interesting, informative and enlightening. Thank you for providing context.

My issues has less to do with Ferriola and more to do with the fact that this so-called Wild Bunch doesn't appear to be a decina but rather a "street crew" (associates I would think). My takeaway was that there was no "capo" of the Wild Bunch, they answered to a soldier, but even if they did eventually answer to a Capodecina, it wouldn't make, in this case we"ll say Ferriola, a duo capo of the formal Taylor St/Cicero and The Wild Bunch, not in a formal perspective. And seeing people speak about it like it was a formal crew with half-mexican made members just made me question why they don't look to the first and only member in Chicago's history to discuss It.

But thank you for the info on Ferriola. If by my response either of you feel there's something I'm overlooking or that I'm "still not getting it," by all means, I'm all ears.

I don't know why Nick called it out as a crew along with other formal street crews with capos. Maybe that was his understanding at the time. Even after the Wild Bunch "broke up" around 1980, the members all still belonged to the Cicero/Taylor St crew once they got out of prison (Inendino and Scarpelli specifically).

Infelise (who was never considered part of the Wild Bunch) also paid Jerry Scalise and Harry Aleman's families a monthly stipend while they were in prison, so these guys were organizationally part of the Ferriola (and then Infelise) regime, while for a time in the late seventies, operationally belonged to an informal group of guys in the Wild Bunch.

[B.]

Beyond some of the structural details, the info I'm most interested in from Calabrese's testimony:

- There were no geographic boundaries for bookmaking, loansharking, extortion, or murder.
- Members or associates could transfer to other formal crews.
- Members or associates who failed to complete a murder could be killed for it.
- The term "sottocapo" was used, in context, to refer to an acting captain.
- Members were formally introduced as "amico nostra".
- Membership was highly secretive even among fellow members.
- Full traditional ceremony.
- Promotions could theoretically happen at induction ceremonies, hence the Spilotro ruse.
- Chicago honored Rockford's claim over a couple of associates who had been working for Chicago.
- Trusted associates like Frank Calabrese and Infelise had to wait a significant time to become members.

Also Calabrese's story implies that murder and blood relation were the biggest factors in his induction as a member. Very little about Nick jumps out as an obvious candidate beyond that.

[PolackTony]

For context on Tony's new avatar: https://youtu.be/pJy9EFf-tiM

Now go order some new windaz from Super Sash because sometimes the old ones have an unfortunate way of getting broken - just like arms and legs.

Da boys from Super Saysh. It was a winda com’pny. ‘Cause it’d be a real shame if somet’in’ were to happen to yer old windas.

[Coloboy]

Beyond some of the structural details, the info I'm most interested in from Calabrese's testimony:

- There were no geographic boundaries for bookmaking, loansharking, extortion, or murder.
- Members or associates could transfer to other formal crews.
- Members or associates who failed to complete a murder could be killed for it.
- The term "sottocapo" was used, in context, to refer to an acting captain.
- Members were formally introduced as "amico nostra".
- Membership was highly secretive even among fellow members.
- Full traditional ceremony.
- Promotions could theoretically happen at induction ceremonies, hence the Spilotro ruse.
- Chicago honored Rockford's claim over a couple of associates who had been working for Chicago.
- Trusted associates like Frank Calabrese and Infelise had to wait a significant time to become members.

Also Calabrese's story implies that murder and blood relation were the biggest factors in his induction as a member. Very little about Nick jumps out as an obvious candidate beyond that.

It's my hunch that in the outfit when someone was inducted formally as a capo, meaning an official boss of one of the street crews, it meant that they were now on the board of directors, and were going to have some degree of authority over the bigger pictures moves of the organization. Hence the high degree of caution exhibited in promoting someone to that role. For example, our best intel indicates that Difronzo took over the EP crew, most likely in acting capacity ("sottocapo") sometime around 1976. We know he was assuredly an official boss or capo by 1983 when the well documented induction of Nick Calabrese happened, so he likely became official sometime between say 78-80.

Why does this matter? Well my guess is that once "official", you were going to have some degree of say over things like who the next boss would be, whether the current boss should stay, who should take over a crew when there was a succession opportunity, etc. It is clear that Accardo and Ricca maintained a strong degree of control and authority over this board, and thus retained the defacto final control over all things Outfit while being able to stay away from day to day decision making.

[Angelo Santino]

Beyond some of the structural details, the info I'm most interested in from Calabrese's testimony:

- There were no geographic boundaries for bookmaking, loansharking, extortion, or murder.
- Members or associates could transfer to other formal crews.
- Members or associates who failed to complete a murder could be killed for it.
- The term "sottocapo" was used, in context, to refer to an acting captain.
- Members were formally introduced as "amico nostra".
- Membership was highly secretive even among fellow members.
- Full traditional ceremony.
- Promotions could theoretically happen at induction ceremonies, hence the Spilotro ruse.
- Chicago honored Rockford's claim over a couple of associates who had been working for Chicago.
- Trusted associates like Frank Calabrese and Infelise had to wait a significant time to become members.

Also Calabrese's story implies that murder and blood relation were the biggest factors in his induction as a member. Very little about Nick jumps out as an obvious candidate beyond that.

As boring as it is, Nick Calabrese could about have been testifying about his membership in NY, Philly, New England or even Sicily. The Chicago Family has existed since at least the 1870's and it took until the 2000's for there to be a made member of the group to testify under oath. And his revealings mirror the same info we have of other families in both the US and Sicily.

New York has this myth that Luciano murdered all the Mustache Petes and created a new "Americanized" Organization. I reckon Chicago has its own equivalent with Al Capone who, more or less, is said to have done the same thing. Both narratives are false. We're a small but growing contingent who managed to dispel the Luciano myth. That same kidney stone with Chicago's "Outfit" needs to pass too.

[B.]

Coloboy -- I don't think being a captain automatically meant joining the "board". Now that we know it was a formal consiglio, we can compare it to other councils which were typically made up of a chairman / secretary (akin to official consigliere), the boss, underboss, and select captains and / or senior soldiers or "retired" leaders.

We have some different accounts of who was on the "board" but this is what DeRose indicated at the time he cooperated:

- Paul Ricca
- Tony Accardo
- Fifi Buccieri
- Sam Battaglia
- Jack Cerone
- Ross Prio (possibly)
- Presumably Giancana was on it, making 7.

- Either Ricca or Accardo would be the chairman and the other one may have technically been a soldier but as a member of the council would be a consigliere as all council members were consiglieri if they had a seat. The others look to have been the admin and select captains. Most Families with a known consiglio typically had 5 seats but Chicago was a more significant and possibly larger Family which could have led to them having 7.

- What we don't know is whether these seats periodically changed or what the circumstances of that were. I've been operating from the belief that Ricca was the chairman and if it still formally existed post-Ricca this position was held by Accardo. I'm not sure if that's substantiated by any hard evidence offhand but Ricca or Accardo was no doubt the chairman / secretary at any given time during the periods we know it existed.

- Obviously being a captain in Chicago was a uniquely powerful position. In some small Families it could be an honorary title with little or even no operational influence (Infusino in SF) or in large NYC Families it could vary considerably and Families like the Gambinos had 20 to 25 captains which creates a much different power structure. In Chicago from the 1960s onward though it looks to have been both a major formal and operational force so whether a captain sat on the council or not it was not an arbitrary position. We can see that captains tended to be responsible for proposing members too which happened elsewhere as well but from what's available it looks like they put extra emphasis on the admin and captains taking responsibility for admitting new names.

[B.]

As boring as it is, Nick Calabrese could about have been testifying about his membership in NY, Philly, New England or even Sicily. The Chicago Family has existed since at least the 1870's and it took until the 2000's for there to be a made member of the group to testify under oath. And his revealings mirror the same info we have of other families in both the US and Sicily.

New York has this myth that Luciano murdered all the Mustache Petes and created a new "Americanized" Organization. I reckon Chicago has its own equivalent with Al Capone who, more or less, is said to have done the same thing. Both narratives are false. We're a small but growing contingent who managed to dispel the Luciano myth. That same kidney stone with Chicago's "Outfit" needs to pass too.

I mentioned this in the op / org thread, but there's an assumption sometimes that only Sicilians valued Cosa Nostra's system and network while mainlanders were seeking to undermine Cosa Nostra and fundamentally change it. There's very little evidence to support this narrative in most cases beyond some individuals having different personalities and biases. There's plenty of counterevidence too. Even Calabrian Pittsburgh members with their own network transferred to otherwise Sicilian-centric San Jose and immediately applied themselves to high level mafia administration and protocol despite that Family having little organized crime activity -- they were interested in maintaining the system for its own sake because it gave them status, resources, and maybe because they simply liked what it was.

We can see that non-Sicilians and Italian-Americans around the country had no issue taking on Cosa Nostra as their own and this was not a "nod" to its Sicilian roots but simply the way the mafia environment evolved in some locations. If Paul Ricca was the consiglio chairman it doesn't mean he was in love with the Sicilian mafia, it just means he saw the value in participating and perpetuating the system for his and Chicago's own reasons much as Stefano Zoccoli did when he moved to San Jose. John Gotti didn't believe in the traditional ceremony because he loved Sicilians -- we know he actually tried to limit Sicilian influence -- it was because Cosa Nostra came to mean something to him personally as an Italian-American in Queens. It meant something slightly different to DiLeonardo but he and Gotti had common ground in that both valued the system. John Gotti had common ground with the DeCavalcantes too even though they were very different.

I agree Chicago needs to be tackled in the same way NYC has been as far as narratives and myths. It doesn't mean there weren't changes in the Family's mindset / approach when Capone took over, as obviously there were some, but they weren't total and we can see the Family continued to include more "traditional" Sicilians alongside other types of members. It was a highly disciplined Family and Cosa Nostra is first and foremost focused on maintaining order and discipline whether this is applied to the social environment or organized crime. That's why a Pittsburgh member was shelved for not committing an honor killing after his wife had an affair and it's also why the Bonannos shelved a guy for stealing numbers profits even though one was purely a personal matter and the other was organized crime. In Chicago it meant Ross Prio felt the need to whisper about the organization at a location where his crew otherwise talked openly about other underworld gossip.

A theory sometimes comes up on here over the years that Chicago was less traditional pre-1970s and decided to reinvigorate the Cosa Nostra system later. A lot of this comes from the references to Chicago not using the traditional making ceremony then Calabrese testifying that in 1983 he was given the full blood and fire. We know now that incredibly traditional Families didn't do the full ceremony and this didn't mean abandoning the larger system / framework and there's no hard evidence Chicago was different whether there was some lapse in ceremony or not (we really don't have enough evidence on pre-1983 inductions to draw conclusions). The problem with a lack of intel is all we can do is draft theories based on what we currently know but we have to remember these are just theories.

With the idea that Chicago was less traditional earlier and became more traditional in the 1970s or early 80s, it just doesn't seem logical though. Their Sicilian and Italian identity was stronger, with many immigrant members who not only came from Sicilian mafia backgrounds but also mainlanders with their own organized underworld networks. Why would these guys see no value in the system while guys born and/or raised in Chicago did? Maybe some later guys were more like Gotti who emphasized ceremony while some earlier guys didn't, but I see no convincing evidence that Chicago sought to abandon the system and then later generations reversed this. It's not an intuitive theory and it isn't supported in any substantial way.

A big hang-up in Chicago discussions is also language. Too much emphasis has been placed on euphemisms and terms used locally in Chicago as if that changes what's being referred to, but we've learned those weren't the only euphemisms and terms used. As we've learned about other non-NYC American Families we can see Chicago used similar/same language though so these arguments aren't relevant any longer. Because Chicago and Milwaukee didn't use the term "Cosa Nostra" (which Joe Bonanno said he didn't either), it doesn't mean they weren't using the system we know as Cosa Nostra. Nick Gentile didn't use "Cosa Nostra" either but when he said the "Honored Society" he meant the same system.

[Patrickgold]

And for the same reason "Gumba" Saladino was never boss of Rockford as I've been saying all along. Nick's "threat assessment" which included Gumba, stated that information indicated he was boss of Rockford but as I've stated, that's what Nick believed or was led to believe. I knew Frank, knew he was made and that he was afforded much respect around Rockford but he never had the intelligence to be boss. Now, I believe at the very least he was a capo, street gambling boss, or what have you after Sebastian Gulotta died.

Cavita, any idea when Gumba was made? Was he made with Rockford or Chicago?