He sounds like a Dark Circle member.....NickleCity wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:00 am From today’s front page below the fold in The Buffalo News:
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4th story in the Buffalo Mob in two days.
Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
This thread will never end.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
^^^^
Here is the link to today’s article on Buffalo high school teacher who LE says is an “associate or possibly a made man” in the Buffalo crime family.
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crim ... 7ebe6.html
Here is the link to today’s article on Buffalo high school teacher who LE says is an “associate or possibly a made man” in the Buffalo crime family.
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crim ... 7ebe6.html
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
Maybe if you provided a fourth 1 people would listen.Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:18 pmRemember what I said about adding 1+1+1 and saying it equals 10?elasticman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:23 pmThat being said, this seems like a kind of strange distinction to make. I think when people say the Buffalo crime family is active, they mean that there is a group of Italian American criminals active in Buffalo, with a hierarchical structure, "made" members, and so on. It seems the weight of the evidence suggests this is what we have, correct?
Yes, we have Italian criminals. A couple are nephews of Todaro but there actually being any real connection between their drug trafficking and him is speculative. A couple others guys, also Italian, are alleged to be Buffalo mob associates. Of course, "associate" can be a pretty broad term in how it's applied. And their drug trafficking being a part of a structured, active family - especially considering the past 20 years - is also speculative.
That's the first 1.
You mentioned a hierarchical structure. I'll ask again, where's the hierarchy? In mob cases in New York and some other places, you can see a clear, functioning hierarchy. Where do we really see this in Buffalo? While bosses get put away left and right, Todaro is really overseeing his own criminal organization from La Nova all these years with nary a scrape beyond some bad press? Nobody denies he is the titular boss. But there's little evidence it goes beyond that.
Then we have Violi. He gets made and then, two seconds later, gets made underboss. What's more likely? That he really beat out 30 other guys, presumably with more seniority; or that he didn't have much competition to begin with, considering just about everyone else was old and inactive?
Working our way down this hierarchy, who are the captains? Surely a 30+ member organization must have a few? The only guy identified as one is 82 year old Rocco Luppino, who lives in Hamilton - not Buffalo - and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. There's your hierarchy.
That's the second 1.
You mentioned "made members." You said this is your first post so let's review the known facts. In 1989 the FBI had the family at 45 made members. In 1997 the Hamilton PD at the family at 34 made members. In 2006 the FBI had the family at 23 made members. See a pattern there?
Wait for the erroneous sleeper cell comments in 3...2....1...
The list of known living made members is now at 12. If we take Violi's taped conversation at face value, there's 20 other members floating around out there. Why haven't any of them been identified? Moreover, at what point did this organization - all but moribund for 20 years - suddenly start making guys in droves? And, if the recruitment pool is there, why weren't they doing so all along? Let's not forget that there's been past examples of mob guys citing inflated figures.
That's the third 1.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
I sent Anna Sergi an email- thanks to Wiseguy for providing it. We'll see what she says.
But I will again emphasize that it's a secret organization and without informants we don't have an in. We can't observe and come to conclusions. If Wiseguy is a 'ndranghestisti and I'm a Mafioso who works in his shop, law enforcement would likely observe Wiseguy coming in and tell me to rearrange the shelves and their takeaway would be either The Mafia is under the 'Ndrangheta or that it appears I'm a former Mafioso who's now in the 'Ndrangheta. It doesn't work that way because I can keep my affiliation in the organizational sense and still work at his shop. Operationally however, he's the manager and I'm the employee so the delegation of duties is not outside the norm. But to outsiders trying to figure out the dynamic leads us to form all these grandiose conclusions and speculation. This logic is the same reason some think Detroit had 17 captains or why Chicago has 14 levels of ranks. Looks can be deceiving and the Mafia likes to keep things simple.
Buffalo is not "formerly affiliated" with the LCN unless they underwent a formal transfer from the Mafia Society to 'Ndrangheta one that we don't know about (they wouldn't put out a press release.) But given the Bonanno's involvement with them in the last several years and the wiretaps showcasing their mutual affiliation with each other I'd argue that's not the case, they are still Mafia/LCN. It may be confusing to us outsiders but not to them.
This brings us to Violi and this idea of dual memberships, there's nothing to suggest he's a 'ndranghetisti, it never surfaced on the wiretaps and his older relatives were Bonnano affiliates. Why didn't he join the Ndrangheta, don't know. You'd have to ask him.
Mafia and Ndrangheta are different organizations but they are not rivals at the macro level. Their relationship is comparable to the micro level Families within the Mafia. When New York had members of all Families involved in the windows case or this recent ECLCN stuff, it doesn't indicate any sort of merger between groups, it just shows they work together.
But I will again emphasize that it's a secret organization and without informants we don't have an in. We can't observe and come to conclusions. If Wiseguy is a 'ndranghestisti and I'm a Mafioso who works in his shop, law enforcement would likely observe Wiseguy coming in and tell me to rearrange the shelves and their takeaway would be either The Mafia is under the 'Ndrangheta or that it appears I'm a former Mafioso who's now in the 'Ndrangheta. It doesn't work that way because I can keep my affiliation in the organizational sense and still work at his shop. Operationally however, he's the manager and I'm the employee so the delegation of duties is not outside the norm. But to outsiders trying to figure out the dynamic leads us to form all these grandiose conclusions and speculation. This logic is the same reason some think Detroit had 17 captains or why Chicago has 14 levels of ranks. Looks can be deceiving and the Mafia likes to keep things simple.
Buffalo is not "formerly affiliated" with the LCN unless they underwent a formal transfer from the Mafia Society to 'Ndrangheta one that we don't know about (they wouldn't put out a press release.) But given the Bonanno's involvement with them in the last several years and the wiretaps showcasing their mutual affiliation with each other I'd argue that's not the case, they are still Mafia/LCN. It may be confusing to us outsiders but not to them.
This brings us to Violi and this idea of dual memberships, there's nothing to suggest he's a 'ndranghetisti, it never surfaced on the wiretaps and his older relatives were Bonnano affiliates. Why didn't he join the Ndrangheta, don't know. You'd have to ask him.
Mafia and Ndrangheta are different organizations but they are not rivals at the macro level. Their relationship is comparable to the micro level Families within the Mafia. When New York had members of all Families involved in the windows case or this recent ECLCN stuff, it doesn't indicate any sort of merger between groups, it just shows they work together.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
She responded:
1 She affirms that social connections are what counts.
2 She states there's a certain degree of hybridity when it comes to negotiatings.
3 If one group controls the local markek, other groups align and go along.
She's right and confirms what I said above. But it's not complicated, we're making it complicated.
1 There's nothing against each Society doing business with each other, it's not out of the norm. In NYC the Sicilians set the stage and the smaller Calabrian element will adhere to it. In Northern Italy that dynamic is reversed. This isn't rocket science. This does not have to be confusing, refer to the above analogy of me working at Wiseguy's store.
2 Family social connections has always been the root of these Societies. There's more to this than ranks, crews and kickups. Always has been. Those Valachi charts were kindergarten and a way to introduce it to us.
Let's put this "formerly affiliated with LCN" to bed. That's like calling Joe Sodano "formerly affiliated with Philadelphia" because he did most of his business with the Genovese. There's no rule that prohibited him from doing so and he didn't "organically" switch Family affiliations. When he didn't pay Natale he was killed. The Todaros/Buffalo are an LCN family that does business with the Calabrians. Done.
I'd also again like to thank Wiseguy who may not agree with the above. While it may seem like he and I duke it out, we're loyal opposition to each other and each work towards a deeper understanding. But to outsiders, it may seem like we're fighting. We're not.
1 She affirms that social connections are what counts.
2 She states there's a certain degree of hybridity when it comes to negotiatings.
3 If one group controls the local markek, other groups align and go along.
She's right and confirms what I said above. But it's not complicated, we're making it complicated.
1 There's nothing against each Society doing business with each other, it's not out of the norm. In NYC the Sicilians set the stage and the smaller Calabrian element will adhere to it. In Northern Italy that dynamic is reversed. This isn't rocket science. This does not have to be confusing, refer to the above analogy of me working at Wiseguy's store.
2 Family social connections has always been the root of these Societies. There's more to this than ranks, crews and kickups. Always has been. Those Valachi charts were kindergarten and a way to introduce it to us.
Let's put this "formerly affiliated with LCN" to bed. That's like calling Joe Sodano "formerly affiliated with Philadelphia" because he did most of his business with the Genovese. There's no rule that prohibited him from doing so and he didn't "organically" switch Family affiliations. When he didn't pay Natale he was killed. The Todaros/Buffalo are an LCN family that does business with the Calabrians. Done.
I'd also again like to thank Wiseguy who may not agree with the above. While it may seem like he and I duke it out, we're loyal opposition to each other and each work towards a deeper understanding. But to outsiders, it may seem like we're fighting. We're not.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
Since I'm on a roll, let me explain the fallacy of The Sixth Family... What we had were two outsiders writing a book. Great writers, very well articulated and the events in the book are neither wrong nor fabricated. But without any informants explaining the inner dynamics the authors were left to create their own narrative based on the dots they connected. This lead to some grandiose story about the Rizzutos as some criminal superFamily where everything they did was some calculated 3d Chess move. Acording to that book everything Nick Rizzuto did from 1972 was a combination of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and Lord Acton rolled into one. And when Vito was convicted it was described as "a patch of hair being ripped off the head which new hair would soon grow in its place." It then described the Organization as having shed its traditional structure to include this, this, this and that as well has having 300+ affiliated across Canada. 'While the New York Families can lay claim to New York, the Rizzutos can lay claim to the world."
Within years, Sal Montagna shattered that narrative. It was revealed by way of informants that Montreal was a 20-member affiliated crew of the Bonannos.
This is a perfect example of what happens to the narrative when outsiders are left to try and figure things out on their own. We build things up and inflate the hell out of things, not because we're trying to lie or deceive, but because its confusing we try and lay it out the best way we can describe things. But in the end, I'm still a Mafioso who works in the 'Ndranghestisti Wiseguy's store.
Within years, Sal Montagna shattered that narrative. It was revealed by way of informants that Montreal was a 20-member affiliated crew of the Bonannos.
This is a perfect example of what happens to the narrative when outsiders are left to try and figure things out on their own. We build things up and inflate the hell out of things, not because we're trying to lie or deceive, but because its confusing we try and lay it out the best way we can describe things. But in the end, I'm still a Mafioso who works in the 'Ndranghestisti Wiseguy's store.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
I think something got confused here.....Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:01 am She responded:
Edit- CC
She's right and confirms what I said above.
1 There's nothing against each Society doing business with each other, it's not out of the norm. In NYC the Sicilians set the stage and the smaller Calabrian element will adhere to it. In Northern Italy that dynamic is reversed. This isn't rocket science. This does not have to be confusing.
2 Family social connections has always been the root of these Societies. There's more to this than ranks, crews and kickups. Always has been. Those Valachi charts were kindergarten and a way to introduce it to us.
Let's put this "formerly affiliated with LCN" to bed. That's like calling Joe Sodano "formerly affiliated with Philadelphia" because he did most of his business with the Genovese. There's no rule that prohibited him from doing so and he didn't "organically" switch Family affiliations. When he didn't pay Natale he was killed. The Todaros/Buffalo are an LCN family that does business with the Calabrians. Done.
I'd also again like to thank Wiseguy who may not agree with the above. While it may seem like he and I duke it out, we're loyal opposition to each other and each work towards a deeper understanding. But to outsiders, it may seem like we're fighting. We're not.
I dont think she said formerly affiliated because they changed organizations. Like they went from Buffalo to Commisso. I think she said that because the FBI told her there WAS NO organization. Like no Buffalo LCN for them to BE members of. Maybe you can ask her?
I agree on the social connections part. What I dont get is how their social connections to Ndrangheta get downplayed. Based off what she said, I'm wondering if the Buffalo resurgence was to counteract this influx of Ndrangheta families in Niagra and Hamilton they keep cryptically referring to. Or are they all under Buffalo?
It's obvious they work with Calabrians. The controversial part was whether they were UNDER them, or LCN, or independent. And if LCN, then what family. Wiseguy insisted they cant be Buffalo, cause theres no structure left. I said they cant be Bonnanos, because one of the rats would have said so. In the face of those 2 choices, the 3rd is that they must be Ndrangheta, (otherwise they are, what..... like the Musitanos? Do we know what to call whatever they were?) . After the wire came out, we know its Buffalo.
The Double affiliates question was really about the Inzerillos and certain key, strategically placed mafiosi in NY, like Catalano, Naimo, not the Violis. The Inzerillo question was answered by the last indictment. A sovereign crime family.And even that is interesting, because technically they should have been absorbed by the Gambinos.
I'm having the same issue with Toronto now. In the Scoppa book, they keep alluding to a Toronto mafia. And talking about it like its separate from whatever we call Montreal today. I don't know if they mean Bonnanos, Scarcella from Castellammare Del Golfo, Ndrangheta people, or what. A combo of all three, a committee, they all answer to LCN, or the Calabrians, or Sicily. I havent a clue. On top of that you got the Bikers in there. I cant even figure out who got the Platinum sportsbook.
What you said on setting the stage....Who sets the stage up there? Sicilian mafia, Ndrangheta, or American LCN? It seems like what she described, some kind of hybridization, I'm just wondering how it all fits....
Oh, and just to add.... I actually like Wiseguy. Hes my favorite adversary, lol... I respect his intelligence more than I dislike him...
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
This right here. Of course you dont want to alienate her,, as I'm sure she didnt want to alienate either the FBI or RCMP by saying they are wrong. Shes a college professor, we should embrace her contributions to this thing.Chris Christie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:13 am We're going to chat. I will have to be careful not to alienate her. I don't want to tell her she's wrong because she's not. She's just viewing it from the perspective of a non-member.
Edit - CC
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
1 That is a great question to ask her and that may have led to her describing it as such. Bravo!CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:50 am I dont think she said formerly affiliated because they changed organizations. Like they went from Buffalo to Commisso. I think she said that because the FBI told her there WAS NO organization. Like no Buffalo LCN for them to BE members of. Maybe you can ask her?
...
What you said on setting the stage....Who sets the stage up there? Sicilian mafia, Ndrangheta, or American LCN? It seems like what she described, some kind of hybridization, I'm just wondering how it all fits....
2 It's simple, depends on the region or the racket. Demographically, if one group is more prevalent in an area, other groups will go along with it. The Mafia is subservient to the 'Ndr... in northern Italy but reversed in NYC. And then, if that same area if one deals with drugs and the other deals in contraband, they respect each other's individuality and work together when they can.
Should also stop thinking of it in terms of two groups making a decision, it's more like individuals from those groups. These Mafie aren't centered around rackets, they provide protection for the economic interests of its members. There's a certain horizontality to these interactions. If I as a Mafioso wished to do some business with 'Ndranghetisti Wiseguy I'd likely need to get my capo/bosses permission otherwise they can't protect/support me, but once I'm doing something with Wiseguy it mostly is my affair, money gets sent up to my capo/boss but that doesn't equate to both organizations working together as a collective whole.
Most of these wars aren't two groups pining for control but internal differences, it's always been the case with few exceptions that we can count on one hand.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
I asked: But a question I did have. Did the FBI's labeling of Buffalo as defunct/inactive lead or inspire you to refer to them as formerly affiliated with LCN?
She responded: She only looked at Canada, not the USA.
The Mafia, all of them really, share an operandi and have a history of repeating itself. The USA in the early 1900's is the first example of them all being among each other in a shared territory, jump to the 1970's-present in Northern Italy it's amazing how it's identical. I don't know Canada because its so hard to get information due to their publication bans but I reckon it plays out in the very same fashion.
Don't take my word for it, look to Northern Italy and what John Dickie wrote on the situation in his book Mafia Republic.
She responded: She only looked at Canada, not the USA.
The Mafia, all of them really, share an operandi and have a history of repeating itself. The USA in the early 1900's is the first example of them all being among each other in a shared territory, jump to the 1970's-present in Northern Italy it's amazing how it's identical. I don't know Canada because its so hard to get information due to their publication bans but I reckon it plays out in the very same fashion.
Don't take my word for it, look to Northern Italy and what John Dickie wrote on the situation in his book Mafia Republic.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
@NickleCity....your local press is going bongo for this story now! hahaha
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
@NickleCity...could you cut and paste the articles for us please dude, when you get a minute.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
Buffalo teacher was a drug dealer with organized crime ties, prosecutors saythesociety 89 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:10 am @NickleCity...could you cut and paste the articles for us please dude, when you get a minute.
Dan Herbeck , Lou Michel Mar 1, 2021 Updated 37 min ago 14
Michael Masecchia
Teacher Michael Masecchia, at center in black suit, jumps in the air with students from a graduating class at Grover Cleveland High School in Buffalo on June 23, 2000. In December 2020, Masecchia pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Buffalo to felony drug-trafficking and weapons charges.
During the day, Michael Masecchia was a respected English teacher at Buffalo’s Grover Cleveland High School, where colleagues considered him a role model who genuinely cared about his students.
He also coached youth football and high school soccer, including an International Prep/Grover Cleveland team that won a statewide soccer championship.
But when he was away from the city schools, Masecchia lived a second life, one far outside the law.
At his Amherst home, according to documents filed by federal prosecutors, he slept with a gun under his mattress, with plenty of ammunition, a wide assortment of drugs and other firearms nearby.
Masecchia ran a marijuana trafficking ring, federal prosecutors allege, had connections to Buffalo’s organized crime family and paid thousands of dollars in bribes to a federal drug agent.
+4Is the mob back? Feds probe Buffalo Mafia after calling it all but dead
Is the mob back? Feds probe Buffalo Mafia after calling it all but dead
Since at least August 2019, federal agents have been investigating Masecchia as part of a wide-ranging probe into Buffalo’s Mafia and its alleged ties to drug trafficking and other crimes.
In December, Masecchia, 54, pleaded guilty to felony drug-trafficking and weapons charges in federal court.
“Masecchia and others also participated in marijuana grow operations in Ellicottville and Franklinville, in Cattaraugus County,” said U.S. Attorney James P. Kennedy. “In addition, the defendant possessed firearms to protect himself, his proceeds, and property where he stored marijuana and currency.”
Among the items seized in a 2019 raid at the teacher’s home were $27,950 in cash, eight guns, ammunition, three Mason jars of marijuana, various steroids in liquid and tablet form, hypodermic needles, two grams of suspected cocaine, Tylenol with codeine tablets, suspected hashish and four cellphones.
In court, Masecchia admitted that he had been dealing pot since 1999 and had distributed more than a ton of marijuana during that time. And he said that he “and others” in the drug trade had help from a federal agent, Joseph Bongiovanni.
As part of his plea agreement, Masecchia said Bongiovanni helped him and other drug traffickers to avoid arrest by providing “law enforcement-sensitive information,” including the names of potential cooperating witnesses.
Bongiovanni, who resigned from the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in 2019 and faces felony corruption charges, denies assisting any drug dealers. In court papers, Bongiovanni’s defense attorneys said he stayed away from Masecchia because Masecchia had a “mean streak” and “was prone to engage in fist-fights and petty drug-dealing and use.”
Prosecution court papers include a copy of a 2013 email from an unidentified federal agent to Bongiovanni, stating that Masecchia is “an associate member and possibly a made member” of the Buffalo Mafia family.
The same email states that Masecchia’s father-in-law was the late Bart Mazzara, a “made member” of the Buffalo Mafia family. In 1996, Mazzara was one of 28 men forced to resign from Laborers Local 210 because of alleged associations with the Mafia.
None of that information squares with the portrait of Masecchia painted by his attorney, Patrick J. Brown, or people who knew him as a teacher and coach.
Brown described Masecchia as a devoted family man who cares about the community and takes a special interest in students from immigrant families.
In his younger days, Masecchia was a talented athlete in his own right. A star on the Bennett High School football team, he was recently inducted into the Harvard Cup Hall of Fame. In 1986 and 1987, he played running back for the University at Buffalo’s football team.
Since his arrest, he has been on administrative leave from his job in the city schools.
“His students loved him,” recalled Kevin Eberle, the former principal at Grover Cleveland who now serves as principal at the city’s Math Science Technology High School. Eberle said he has known Masecchia for two decades and considers him a compassionate and caring educators.
“Many times through the years, he would literally give the shirt off his back to immigrant students. He’d make sure they had spikes for soccer, clothes and food. It was nothing for him to literally feed them,” Eberle said.
Eberle, a former police officer, recalled a poignant moment involving Masecchia and a Grover Cleveland student who was killed as a bystander in a drive-by shooting. Eberle said he looked over at Masecchia during the student’s funeral.
Masecchia – the man who now admits he sold marijuana for 20 years and kept guns and drugs in his home – was crying.
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Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity
It's like Hoover all over again....there isnt a mafia....oh actually maybe there is....fucking bizzare scenario this.