Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[SonnyBlackstein]

20 members still makes up for a pretty significant crew. There were never more than 20 made members in Montreal either and they were proclaimed the Sixth Family.

The Rizzuto organization was much much larger than simply it’s made core and generated incredible amounts of revenue from systemic rackets and control of the construction industry to the importation of vast quantities of cocaine.

Nothing remotely comparable is happening in Buffalo.

That each have/had a token 20 buttons is the only, almost irrelevant similarity.

[B.]

@B.

I forgot to mention this, but Catalano might not be the best example to illustrate your point, as I'm pretty sure the ONLY reason he was qualified to be considered for boss WAS the narcotics operations, he could barely talk to the American guys.

@ wiseguy

Didnt the Violis indictment mention this syndicate too?

Not too interested in debating Catalano's qualifications as acting boss, especially in the midst of this "is the Buffalo family active?" dead end discussion. Catalano is an example of someone who had a formal role in a specific mafia family but a separate, though intersecting role in a large-scale drug trafficking network. No doubt his position in one influenced the other and vice versa, but a better way to literally illustrate this point would be to look at the charts they drafted for the Pizza Connection trial vs. a Bonanno hierarchy chart from the same period. With the Pizza charts, you see Catalano at the center of the network and he was no doubt a top leader of the operation but it's not a formal hierarchy, whereas the Bonanno family chart would is a more traditional pyramid hierarchy. Catalano fits into both charts in some similar ways, but you wouldn't call the drug network a "mafia family" or a formal organization, or try to say they are the same organization, whereas you would call the Bonanno family a formal mafia family distinct from the network. The same logic can be applied to other groups, like the ones discussed in this thread.

To bring this back to Montreal, look at someone like Giuseppe Cotroni, who doesn't get talked about much but is a fascinating guy -- he wasn't only at the center of the Bonanno family's drug trafficking in the 1950s and 60s, but was possibly THE key figure in a network that included countless international figures and major NYC mafia members of different ranks from different families. From his FBN file: "Head of the largest and most notorious narcotic syndicate on the North American continent." Yet he was a Bonanno soldier, and even if you include his brother who was of a higher rank in the Bonanno family, you still wouldn't say that the "largest and most notorious narcotic syndicate" was a formal mafia family with the Cotronis as "bosses". Meanwhile there is plenty of evidence that despite their power and independence in that so-called "syndicate", the Cotronis followed protocol when it came to their mafia membership in the Bonanno family. And that doesn't take anything away from the level of influence they had in the network, but it's a good example of what I'm talking about.

[Lupara]

To bring this back to Montreal, look at someone like Giuseppe Cotroni, who doesn't get talked about much but is a fascinating guy -- he wasn't only at the center of the Bonanno family's drug trafficking in the 1950s and 60s, but was possibly THE key figure in a network that included countless international figures and major NYC mafia members of different ranks from different families. From his FBN file: "Head of the largest and most notorious narcotic syndicate on the North American continent."

Interesting you bring him up. So basically he was at the top of the French Connection in North America.

[CabriniGreen]

@B

I think the key difference there was that the French connection was a mafia operation. Complete with deported American mobsters organizing the supply end. Not to mention the political angles with the CIA providing
Cover for the network....

It's a whole different animal....

[CabriniGreen]

Plus the Corsicans were ultimately were in charge.
Cotroni wasnt the top man, he was the point man for the shipments coming in, and most likely, money going back to Europe....


The Sicilian refineries got up and running after the French connection was disrupted.

In my previous post, I meant American mafia operation, with guys like Luciano and Coppola controlling it.


That's when the shift happened, when sicilians started to totally control the business...

[CabriniGreen]

He was similar to Guiseppe Bono, basically the main middleman. Literally in between the refiners, buyers, and smugglers.

But I doubt he gives orders to Luciano, Coppola, the Corsicans, or any boss in NY......

[Confederate]

20 members still makes up for a pretty significant crew. There were never more than 20 made members in Montreal either and they were proclaimed the Sixth Family.

The Rizzuto organization was much much larger than simply it’s made core and generated incredible amounts of revenue from systemic rackets and control of the construction industry to the importation of vast quantities of cocaine.

Nothing remotely comparable is happening in Buffalo.

That each have/had a token 20 buttons is the only, almost irrelevant similarity.

On that Buffalo list I saw, AT LEAST half are dead OR inactive.

[CabriniGreen]

Bringing it into the present....

What all do we know of Vincenzo Morena.... antimafia posted some good info.....

[B.]

Cabrini -- we're in agreement that "key middleman" and other language is more appropriate for these guys than "boss" or "head", etc. and that is basically the point I've been making all along. Giuseppe Bono is another great example, as he was the official boss of a Sicilian mafia family yet he wasn't part of a formal hierarchical structure in the Pizza Connection network, though he was no doubt a "leading figure". These networks function like organizations but they aren't mafia families and the two aren't necessarily at odds with one another.

I think there is some confusion because I'm not bringing up these examples like Joe Cotroni and Sal Catalano to dissect them on their own, but to show how the view of modern Canada is similar to how these other examples were viewed within their operations/networks vs. their formal affiliation. Compare these examples to statements in books like the "6th Family" that are otherwise well-researched where they say that Vito Rizzuto controls "hundreds of Sicilian men of honor" worldwide. There is a tendency in so much mafia literature and journalism to make powerful figures out to be the "boss of bosses" to market books and articles (look at the way Gambino, Castellano, Gotti, Genovese, Luciano, etc. have been portrayed) and though the language is different, the same has been done to people like the Rizzutos in Canada. And in challenging that I'm not taking anything away from the actual power or influence these people had -- Carlo Gambino was not the "boss of bosses" but he was an incredibly powerful mafia boss, just like there is no evidence that Vito Rizzuto was the "boss" of the "Canadian mafia", but he was a mafia member who had considerable influence beyond his formal rank / affiliation.

There has been this ongoing argument that people like the Rizzutos can't be Bonanno members AND leading figures in these other large-scale operations, especially drugs, but we have other examples of other people who did just that. It's like the idea of some soldiers being bigger earners and more influential than others -- these things aren't completely linear. You can have a soldier or associate who earns far more money and has more direct and/or indirect influence over criminal activities than a captain, but you wouldn't say that the soldier is a boss or captain. I'm not saying I know what's been going on in Montreal, but I'm using some earlier examples and precedents that have been set in mafia history to try to understand it because we simply don't have enough information from people with firsthand or even secondhand knowledge.

That's my point and I'm going to leave it at that. No sense beating it down anymore. I enjoy this subject even though it can be a headfuck.

[antimafia]

Bringing it into the present....

What all do we know of Vincenzo Morena.... antimafia posted some good info.....

I didn't know anything about Morena till Capeci identified him as the police agent who underwent the Bonanno induction ceremony in Canada. Only then was I able to determine when and why he decided to cooperate with Canadian law enforcement, as well as where he might have resided in Quebec.

I forgot that Peter Edwards's Gang Land article from this past February was posted here on TBHF -- here's a link: http://www.theblackhand.club/forum/view ... ena#p68200. Below are three paragraphs from the article.

The boys, Giuseppe (Joe) and Domenico, are 47 and 51 now. Until recently, they enjoyed a low profile and apparent prosperity in Hamilton, where they ran restaurant and flooring and décor companies.

That low key persona ended dramatically last November when the brothers were arrested and linked to their late father's New York-based Bonanno family following a joint investigation by Canadian and U.S. law enforcement officials that ended with 18 gangsters being charged with organized criminal activity in the two countries.

[snip]

One reason is that their arrests are linked to a "police agent," the term Canadian law enforcers use to identify what U.S officials call a cooperating witness, who was inducted into the Bonanno family in a joint probe with U.S. authorities. Gangsters on both sides of the border call the government operative, whom Gang Land has identified as Vincenzo Morena, an Italian national formerly from Brooklyn, and more recently a resident of Hamilton, a snitch, stool pigeon, or worse.

[Lupara]

Bringing it into the present....

What all do we know of Vincenzo Morena.... antimafia posted some good info.....

I didn't know anything about Morena till Capeci identified him as the police agent who underwent the Bonanno induction ceremony in Canada. Only then was I able to determine when and why he decided to cooperate with Canadian law enforcement, as well as where he might have resided in Quebec.

I forgot that Peter Edwards's Gang Land article from this past February was posted here on TBHF -- here's a link: http://www.theblackhand.club/forum/view ... ena#p68200. Below are three paragraphs from the article.

The boys, Giuseppe (Joe) and Domenico, are 47 and 51 now. Until recently, they enjoyed a low profile and apparent prosperity in Hamilton, where they ran restaurant and flooring and décor companies.

That low key persona ended dramatically last November when the brothers were arrested and linked to their late father's New York-based Bonanno family following a joint investigation by Canadian and U.S. law enforcement officials that ended with 18 gangsters being charged with organized criminal activity in the two countries.

[snip]

One reason is that their arrests are linked to a "police agent," the term Canadian law enforcers use to identify what U.S officials call a cooperating witness, who was inducted into the Bonanno family in a joint probe with U.S. authorities. Gangsters on both sides of the border call the government operative, whom Gang Land has identified as Vincenzo Morena, an Italian national formerly from Brooklyn, and more recently a resident of Hamilton, a snitch, stool pigeon, or worse.

Could be an indication that the ceremony was held in Hamilton. More and more am I thinking the brothers affiliated themselves with the Bonanno family. Would've never guessed it beforehand. LE's intel is so much more superior to our own that the tiniest bit of information coming from indictments could completely change our perspective.

That being said, I hereby formely request to Soliai and the admin that the Blackhand Family put together a team that could infiltrate the highest levels of LE in the US and Canada so we could gain all their intel and for once and for all end this seemingly never-ending speculative and exhaustive discussions about affiliations, influences and relationships of mobsters in the two countries. [emoji3]

[NickleCity]

Buffalo is a dead city and not just in terms of LCN either.


Pogo

Look up Buffalo's resurgence as a city. Big turn around has been taking place...

[SonnyBlackstein]

Buffalo is a dead city and not just in terms of LCN either.


Pogo

Look up Buffalo's resurgence as a city. Big turn around has been taking place...

Dead cat bounce.

[NickleCity]

Buffalo is a dead city and not just in terms of LCN either.


Pogo

Look up Buffalo's resurgence as a city. Big turn around has been taking place...

Dead cat bounce.

More than dead cat bounce:

https://www.freeenterprise.com/buffalo- ... esurgence/

https://buffalonews.com/2015/09/03/buff ... -comeback/

https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/new ... ncome.html

http://wyrk.com/usas-100-best-cities-to ... falo-rank/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailyn ... utType=amp

http://nymag.com/realestate/features/49491/index1.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews ... ontext=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.surfac ... newal/amp/

[Pogo The Clown]

It is still a shithole. Pretty soon it won't be fit for human habitation (if it is not already). Sad to see another one of our great cities destroyed by the usual suspects.


Pogo