Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[NickleCity]

Wiseguy, is it conjecture to assume that FBI continues to believe the Buffalo family is defunct? Do you have a current source? Or have things changed for the FBI since the March 2017 article by Dan Herbeck? Agreed that article stated:

he local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

Here is the link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/the- ... 96091.html

No, it's not conjecture. I realize you and others are hoping for a press release that will never come but the FBI has said what it's said. You don't get to use no news as news.

No News?

I highlighted 4 new news items since the March 2017 article:

1. Otremens
2. Masecchia complaint
3. Bongiovonni indictment
4. Superseeding indictment

And?

Loeffler hasn't said anything different, has he?

No, but the US Attorney in Buffalo did, and Loeffler was at the press conference where he did. Additionally, he was there for the Maseccia complaint before that, if I remember correctly.

Italian guys, connected to Buffalo or not, dealing drugs on both sides of the border. And the FBI has participated in the investigation.

And?

I get that you're hoping that enough smoke means there's fire but you do realize this doesn't necessarily equate to a formally structured, viable family right?

Otremens outlined a structure:
1. Boss = Joe Todaro, Jr.
2. Underboss = Dominico Violi
3. Underlings = 30 people Violi beat out for the position.

Even if we were to determine that the Italian OC guys mentioned were all members or associates of Buffalo, it wouldn't be that different from what we saw before the Violi bust, i.e. random cases here and there, but seemingly more guys making their own rather than as a result of a cohesive crime family.

Random?

1. Anthony Gerace = Todaro's nephew
2. Masecchia = married made man Bart Mazara's daughter
3. Bongiovanni = friends with Masecchia and...
4. ...coconspirator 1 who the Buffalo News suggested could be Peter Gerace (Todaro's nephew and Anthony's brother)
5. All this happens shortly after Dominic Violi, the alleged Buffalo underboss is arrested.

I'd like to know what the probability of this happening by chance. Is Anyone good with figuring out probabilities?

And don't you think the feds would be the first to announce a revitalized Buffalo mob, if that were the case?

No, I don't. Especially if they are working the case and want to keep it low-key. Or, if they had have been infiltrated by corruption like the DEA in Buffalo had allegedly been.

This has been adressed numerous times. We have seen in Kansas City, Rochester, Scranton and Cleveland the FBI make reference to the local LCN family when they indict a member or associate years after they have declared that family defunct.


Pogo

Pogo, could you remind me of a couple of those names. I'd like to see if I could find the indictments and compare the language. The superseding indictment for Masecchia and Bongiovanni appears to use a present participle "...Buffalo LCN, IOC group operating in Buffalo and elsewhere." But then it has been a long time since I had an English grammar class, maybe I'm wrong.

[Wiseguy]

I highlighted 4 new news items since the March 2017 article:

1. Otremens
2. Masecchia complaint
3. Bongiovonni indictment
4. Superseeding indictment

We're talking about the FBI's stated view on the state of the Buffalo LCN. They've said what they have said. And they've also had plenty of time over the past few years to give the public, press, etc. an update if they've changed their views. That has happened. You and others trying to use their silence, or the time passed since they last commented on the issue, as a reason to entertain the possibility they could have changed their view smacks of desperation.

No, but the US Attorney in Buffalo did, and Loeffler was at the press conference where he did. Additionally, he was there for the Maseccia complaint before that, if I remember correctly.

Oh, did I miss some comment the US attorney in Buffalo made regarding any change of view on the Buffalo LCN? Please share.

Otremens outlined a structure:
1. Boss = Joe Todaro, Jr.
2. Underboss = Dominico Violi
3. Underlings = 30 people Violi beat out for the position.

Or, if we add some context...

1. A nominal boss that nobody can argue is basically retired for all intents and purposes, and spends his time making pizza. But hey, maybe I'm all turned around and, after decades, Todaro decided at his age to risk his freedom and wealth to make a power play in Canada.

2. A guy that hasn't been heard from in a while gets made, and becomes underboss not long after (that should tell you something), and is now doing a stretch.

3. About a dozen people with actual names and identities. Then about 20 phantom members that show no sign of existence outside of one comment by Violi.

1. Anthony Gerace = Todaro's nephew
2. Masecchia = married made man Bart Mazara's daughter
3. Bongiovanni = friends with Masecchia and...
4. ...coconspirator 1 who the Buffalo News suggested could be Peter Gerace (Todaro's nephew and Anthony's brother)
5. All this happens shortly after Dominic Violi, the alleged Buffalo underboss is arrested.

I'd like to know what the probability of this happening by chance. Is Anyone good with figuring out probabilities?

You can see the same kind of loose ties and connections in cases in Kansas City in 2010 and Pittsburgh in 2013. If you work hard enough, you can find some kind of tie to just about anyone. It's residual activity.

No, I don't. Especially if they are working the case and want to keep it low-key. Or, if they had have been infiltrated by corruption like the DEA in Buffalo had allegedly been.

Wishful thinking. Yeah, the Buffalo mob has infiltrated the FBI.

Good grief.

[Lupara]

I just got a phonecall from Todaro. He told me that 'these jerkoffs should stop tarnishing my legacy and stop drooling over every word coming from the alphabetized A-holes'. Although he didn't name anyone in particular I feel like I knew who he was talking about. He asked me if there was 'any way we could eh.. settle this in harmony'. I told him we tried but that we've exhausted all options. He then said 'well my friend then we've reached the end of the line and they don't owe nobody nothing anymore'. He then hung up the phone.

[CabriniGreen]

Now, many people are of the opinion that the main criminal activity is in Canada.

Many people? A half dozen guys on this board maybe.

Main criminal activity by who? If you mean there there is more OC activity in Canada than in Buffalo, that's obviously true. But if you mean there is more Buffalo LCN activity in Canada than Buffalo, there's jack shit to prove that.

Now Wiseguy is gonna argue that the majority of the membership is in the states

That's a fact. Don't need me to argue it.

EVEN as he simultaneously argues these SAME guys are inactive and basically nonfunctional.

Correct. How are these two things mutually exclusive?

Follow along:

First, the majority of the dozen or so remaining identified members are in Buffalo. Not Canada.

Second, the majority of what activity there has been over the past 20 years has been in Buffalo. Not Canada.

Third, as we've seen with several defunct families, residual activity does not constitute a viable family.

I didn't lose you, did I?

Yet he will persist to argue against the idea that the major crimes are committed in Canada.

I don't think I've necessarily argued against that, Mr. Strawman. Again, if we're talking about the Buffalo LCN - and not Italian OC in general - the Violi bust involved major crimes. But show me how many examples of major crimes committed by the Buffalo LCN there have been over the past 20 years.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

The question is WHY, and WHY NOW? Why does LCN NEED the Buffalo branch reactivated?

Anyone "needing the Buffalo branch (family?) reactivated" is only a theory at this point.

A more accurate question would be, why did Violi need to be made (and later made underboss) of a defunct family?

Whatever the answer is to that question, several examples have been given many times over of this kind of thing happening in other defunct families. So, that - coupled with the FBI stance on the matter - should preclude people jumping to conclusions about a revitalized Buffalo LCN.

The fact that he was present at the ceremony is evidence that he is an initiated member of LCN, so when he says he got made with Buffalo, it must be true, that much at least.

Yes, that much is true.

No one is going to keep on with these stupid circular arguements.....

You talk about the last 20 years, when you KNOW only since 2014 are the relevant years here. No one, in fact we've all agreed with you Buffalo was a declining family for 20 years. DUMB ASS POINT. You keep introducing this worthless argument to keep up this stupid line of thought......

You keep talking about show me the last 20, no one gives a fuck about the last 20, everyone is in agreement NOTHING WAS HAPPENING. The difference is that in those previous 20 years, apparently, there were NO attempts to make anyone, so why 2014 a year after Rizzuto dies? Papalia might have had the last really powerful crew, before the Violis were old enough to really be out there.

All this talk heated up after Anna Sergi put out her report, and described them as " The Todaro syndicate, formally of LCN"..... in 2014, not fuckin 1985, or 1995, or 2005, or 2010.

The more " accurate question", I've asked THAT question a thousand times, anyone can check the post history.

You keep acting as if the Violi indictments didnt happen. And didnt happen in Canada. In a territory that has historically been controlled by the Buffalo LCN. Keep trying to win the argument with the Ghost of Forums past or whatever...


And many people are the MANY RCMP officers, criminologist like Anna Sergi, and all the Journalist following the case. Not 6 people on a forum.

How about a take on Havana Group Supplies then?


Why the fuck am I arguing with you anyway, lol..
You are so catty you wont even acknowledge the Violis as big drug traffickers, antimagia justvposted something about their narcotics indictment in the mid 90s.....

[Pogo The Clown]

Pogo, could you remind me of a couple of those names. I'd like to see if I could find the indictments and compare the language. The superseding indictment for Masecchia and Bongiovanni appears to use a present participle "...Buffalo LCN, IOC group operating in Buffalo and elsewhere." But then it has been a long time since I had an English grammar class, maybe I'm wrong.

It was mentioned when Billy D'Elia in Scranton and Tommy Marotta in Rochester were indicted. Here is a prime example from a 2012 case in Kansas City. This was years after the FBI had considered KC extinct.

According to the filing, the FBI believes “that Vincent Pisciotta is a ‘made member’ of the Kansas City LCN and that Mark Sorrentino is a close associate of that criminal enterprise.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... es-to.html

[Wiseguy]

I just got a phonecall from Todaro. He told me that 'these jerkoffs should stop tarnishing my legacy and stop drooling over every word coming from the alphabetized A-holes'. Although he didn't name anyone in particular I feel like I knew who he was talking about. He asked me if there was 'any way we could eh.. settle this in harmony'. I told him we tried but that we've exhausted all options. He then said 'well my friend then we've reached the end of the line and they don't owe nobody nothing anymore'. He then hung up the phone.

Lupara, you're pissing me off. Now you're insulting my intelligence; what do you think I am, a fuckin' idiot? You know goddamn well that the Buffalo family hasn't bounced back. The probability of that is a million and a half to one. The probability of the family bouncing back AND getting into a war in Canada, it's in the billions! It cannot happen, would not happen, you fuckin' momo! What's the matter with you?

No one is going to keep on with these stupid circular arguements.....

You talk about the last 20 years, when you KNOW only since 2014 are the relevant years here. No one, in fact we've all agreed with you Buffalo was a declining family for 20 years. DUMB ASS POINT. You keep introducing this worthless argument to keep up this stupid line of thought......

You keep talking about show me the last 20, no one gives a fuck about the last 20, everyone is in agreement NOTHING WAS HAPPENING. The difference is that in those previous 20 years, apparently, there were NO attempts to make anyone, so why 2014 a year after Rizzuto dies? Papalia might have had the last really powerful crew, before the Violis were old enough to really be out there.

All this talk heated up after Anna Sergi put out her report, and described them as " The Todaro syndicate, formally of LCN"..... in 2014, not fuckin 1985, or 1995, or 2005, or 2010.

The more " accurate question", I've asked THAT question a thousand times, anyone can check the post history.

You keep acting as if the Violi indictments didnt happen. And didnt happen in Canada. In a territory that has historically been controlled by the Buffalo LCN. Keep trying to win the argument with the Ghost of Forums past or whatever...


And many people are the MANY RCMP officers, criminologist like Anna Sergi, and all the Journalist following the case. Not 6 people on a forum.

How about a take on Havana Group Supplies then?


Why the fuck am I arguing with you anyway, lol..
You are so catty you wont even acknowledge the Violis as big drug traffickers, antimagia justvposted something about their narcotics indictment in the mid 90s.....

First, anyone familiar with your posts knows you are the Grand Pooba of circular arguments.

Second, I don't ignore the Violi bust. I simply don't make more out of it than what it was. But you and others have. Acting like it was the rule rather than the exception.

Third, no, not up until 2014. From the late 1990s until the present. The Violi bust didn't suddenly usher in some new era. It hasn't proven to be a sign of things to come. It was an anomaly. What they call an outlier in statistics. It's been the same story since the Violi bust as the years before it.

Fourth, the fact I have to actually explain to people - people who follow the mob - that LCN families (especially outside NYC) don't go defunct and then resurrect themselves in the 21st century is beyond ridiculous.

Pogo, could you remind me of a couple of those names. I'd like to see if I could find the indictments and compare the language. The superseding indictment for Masecchia and Bongiovanni appears to use a present participle "...Buffalo LCN, IOC group operating in Buffalo and elsewhere." But then it has been a long time since I had an English grammar class, maybe I'm wrong.

It was mentioned when Billy D'Elia in Scranton and Tommy Marotta in Rochester were indicted. Here is a prime example from a 2012 case in Kansas City. This was years after the FBI had considered KC extinct.

According to the filing, the FBI believes “that Vincent Pisciotta is a ‘made member’ of the Kansas City LCN and that Mark Sorrentino is a close associate of that criminal enterprise.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... es-to.html

Or when D'Elia was indicted -

"William J. D'Elia has been publicly identified as a member of La Cosa Nostra and the boss of the Bufalino Crime Family in Northeastern Pennsylvania."

This was in 2006 when the family literally had a few members left at most.

[Stroccos]

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

You mean Todaro Jr. and unless there is some evidence in one of these indictments or something comes out in the court proceedings how would anyone know about their relationship unless they has inside info?

no i mean todaro sr , he owns the pizza shop. I figure someone might know . I guess not.

[JCB1977]

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

You mean Todaro Jr. and unless there is some evidence in one of these indictments or something comes out in the court proceedings how would anyone know about their relationship unless they has inside info?

no i mean todaro sr , he owns the pizza shop. I figure someone might know . I guess not.

One bite everybody knows the rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPEwAA6G42I

[Stroccos]

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

You mean Todaro Jr. and unless there is some evidence in one of these indictments or something comes out in the court proceedings how would anyone know about their relationship unless they has inside info?

no i mean todaro sr , he owns the pizza shop. I figure someone might know . I guess not.

One bite everybody knows the rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPEwAA6G42I

That dude was just in Cleveland

[Frank]

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

You mean Todaro Jr. and unless there is some evidence in one of these indictments or something comes out in the court proceedings how would anyone know about their relationship unless they has inside info?

no i mean todaro sr , he owns the pizza shop. I figure someone might know . I guess not.

Todaro sr is dead. Has been for nearly 10 years.

[SantoClaus]

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

You mean Todaro Jr. and unless there is some evidence in one of these indictments or something comes out in the court proceedings how would anyone know about their relationship unless they has inside info?

no i mean todaro sr , he owns the pizza shop. I figure someone might know . I guess not.

Todaro sr is dead. Has been for nearly 10 years.

That’s what I thought as well.

[Pogo The Clown]

Todaro also has a son named Joseph so for all practical purposes he is the Sr now.


Pogo

[johnny_scootch]

Todaro also has a son named Joseph so for all practical purposes he is the Sr now.


Pogo

Technically if all 3 have the same name the grandson would be the third. Juniors never become seniors even if their father dies they either drop the Jr altogether or keep it so they aren't confused with their late fathers but I get what you're putting down.

We can't start calling Todaro Jr Todaro Sr it will confuse everyone.

[Lupara]

Todaro also has a son named Joseph so for all practical purposes he is the Sr now.


Pogo

Technically if all 3 have the same name the grandson would be the third. Juniors never become seniors even if their father dies they either drop the Jr altogether or keep it so they aren't confused with their late fathers but I get what you're putting down.

We can't start calling Todaro Jr Todaro Sr it will confuse everyone.

But the Todaro Sr. who's now dead was also likely not the original Sr.

[SonnyBlackstein]

How many Todaro’s does it take to screw in a lightbulb?


All the lightbulbs are in Canada and the Feds say there aren’t any working lightbulbs in Buffalo anymore.