General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Wiseguy]

Love how you ridicule people for their opinions then use your own to antiquate what size a family is. Lol. Priceless.

"I suspect", "its doubtful its been in significant numbers", "connections seem somewhat tentative"....

Im trying to be respectful but in all seriousness you really are like a woman. You do not hold any expert title. You rely on articles and indictments only to then insert your own opinions beyond the actual articles or indictments. Youre views and logic are in decline like the mob you so deeply rely on for self worth

All I'm seeing is the same talking points for Chicago that we've seen for Buffalo and Detroit. Inflating the size based on theoretical members, exaggerating the importance of the few recent cases, etc. Naturally you eat it up.

[Newyorkempire]

Love how you ridicule people for their opinions then use your own to antiquate what size a family is. Lol. Priceless.

"I suspect", "its doubtful its been in significant numbers", "connections seem somewhat tentative"....

Im trying to be respectful but in all seriousness you really are like a woman. You do not hold any expert title. You rely on articles and indictments only to then insert your own opinions beyond the actual articles or indictments. Youre views and logic are in decline like the mob you so deeply rely on for self worth

All I'm seeing is the same talking points for Chicago that we've seen for Buffalo and Detroit. Inflating the size based on theoretical members, exaggerating the importance of the few recent cases, etc. Naturally you eat it up.

The point is if someone wants to think that or anything different than you why do you care??? You dont even know the truth or have first hand knowledge to say otherwise so youre not right either. Thats what women do

[Wiseguy]

The point is if someone wants to think that or anything different than you why do you care??? You dont even know the truth or have first hand knowledge to say otherwise so youre not right either. Thats what women do

Because I find bullshit annoying. Particularly bullshit based on wishful thinking.

[Newyorkempire]

What credentials do you have that gives you any ability to measure importance of indictments? You preach indictments and then minimize them when they dont fit your narrative. Its bizarre how you play both sides. Are you in law enforcement or do you have family members in the mafia? Im asking in all seriousness.

[Newyorkempire]

The point is if someone wants to think that or anything different than you why do you care??? You dont even know the truth or have first hand knowledge to say otherwise so youre not right either. Thats what women do

Because I find bullshit annoying. Particularly bullshit based on wishful thinking.

Not even a valid or substantial reason whatsoever

[Antiliar]

Anyone who thinks there's 30 or 40 members of the Outfit today needs their head examined. Even 20 is a stretch. As far as people being made post-1990's, we have no definitive evidence of it. And, even if we assume there has been, it's doubtful it's been in significant numbers. Especially in terms of enough to offset the members who have died over that time period.

I suspect most of the members or even suspected members listed are either inactive or at least semi-retired. You certainly don't hear much from most of them nowadays. When it comes to cases like DelGiudice, Paloian, or Carparelli, for example, the connections seem somewhat tentative frankly more signs of the decline than anything. There's a reason Sallett said the Outfit is running on fumes.

It's a straw man fallacy to claim that anyone is claiming over 30 current members. 20 being a stretch is your opinion based on out of date information.

As far as people being made post-1990's, we have no definitive evidence of it. And, even if we assume there has been, it's doubtful it's been in significant numbers.

By "we" you're speaking for yourself since you don't know what evidence others have. Assuming facts not in evidence is a valid legal objection to your assertion. Not sure what you mean by "definitive evidence." There is what I would call good evidence. Also not sure what you mean by "significant numbers." From past history it's known that making ceremonies usually consist of five or more inductees at a time, so it would be reasonable to conclude that more recent ceremonies follow the same pattern. Of course this is an educated guess, but it's a reasonable one grounded in historical precedence.

While your opinion is your opinion and a few others may agree with you, remember that others may have knowledge and access to primary sources that you don't. You also haven't engaged in the sort of historical research that several of us have done and continue to do. I also think that being skeptical is useful to keep honest people in check and to avoid going to extremes, but when you just opine without providing much support it doesn't really help your case. In the end, you've given your opinion and now we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Coloboy]

I don’t understand the “we don’t have any evidence of it”.

Last I checked this was the most secretive of the major la cosa nostra families, which is a secret society in and of itself. Pretty sure making ceremonies aren’t broadcast on channel 7

[Newyorkempire]

Anyone who thinks there's 30 or 40 members of the Outfit today needs their head examined. Even 20 is a stretch. As far as people being made post-1990's, we have no definitive evidence of it. And, even if we assume there has been, it's doubtful it's been in significant numbers. Especially in terms of enough to offset the members who have died over that time period.

I suspect most of the members or even suspected members listed are either inactive or at least semi-retired. You certainly don't hear much from most of them nowadays. When it comes to cases like DelGiudice, Paloian, or Carparelli, for example, the connections seem somewhat tentative frankly more signs of the decline than anything. There's a reason Sallett said the Outfit is running on fumes.

It's a straw man fallacy to claim that anyone is claiming over 30 current members. 20 being a stretch is your opinion based on out of date information.

As far as people being made post-1990's, we have no definitive evidence of it. And, even if we assume there has been, it's doubtful it's been in significant numbers.

By "we" you're speaking for yourself since you don't know what evidence others have. Assuming facts not in evidence is a valid legal objection to your assertion. Not sure what you mean by "definitive evidence." There is what I would call good evidence. Also not sure what you mean by "significant numbers." From past history it's known that making ceremonies usually consist of five or more inductees at a time, so it would be reasonable to conclude that more recent ceremonies follow the same pattern. Of course this is an educated guess, but it's a reasonable one grounded in historical precedence.

While your opinion is your opinion and a few others may agree with you, remember that others may have knowledge and access to primary sources that you don't. You also haven't engaged in the sort of historical research that several of us have done and continue to do. I also think that being skeptical is useful to keep honest people in check and to avoid going to extremes, but when you just opine without providing much support it doesn't really help your case. In the end, you've given your opinion and now we'll have to agree to disagree.

Lets not forget Philly has 40+ made and active correct? And Chicago is what 5x the size as Philly and had way more historical influence

[Wiseguy]

It's a straw man fallacy to claim that anyone is claiming over 30 current members. 20 being a stretch is your opinion based on out of date information.

Coloboy said 20-40. Granted he's the only I've seen throw out that high of a number and my comment was in response to that.

By "definitive evidence" I'm talking about a guy being identified as made in an indictment/press release, law enforcement report, legal proceedings, by a law enforcement official, that type of thing. The last thing like that we've seen is from 2007 when 28 members was the figure and several have died since then. If you've seen anything like that since, please share. This isn't out of date if all that is being added is assumption based on the general Italian population of Chicago or nameless sources on the internet. Especially in light of the lack of cases, particularly significant cases, out Chicago.

I don’t understand the “we don’t have any evidence of it”.

Last I checked this was the most secretive of the major la cosa nostra families, which is a secret society in and of itself. Pretty sure making ceremonies aren’t broadcast on channel 7

Chicago hasn't been a "major family" in years. If we're just going to assume there have been making ceremonies post-1990's, why just stop at a few? Hell, maybe the Outfit has had one every year, making several guys in each. Might as well go big.

[Newyorkempire]

It's a straw man fallacy to claim that anyone is claiming over 30 current members. 20 being a stretch is your opinion based on out of date information.

Coloboy said 20-40. Granted he's the only I've seen throw out that high of a number and my comment was in response to that.

By "definitive evidence" I'm talking about a guy being identified as made in an indictment/press release, law enforcement report, legal proceedings, by a law enforcement official, that type of thing. The last thing like that we've seen is from 2007 when 28 members was the figure and several have died since then. If you've seen anything like that since, please share. This isn't out of date if all that is being added is assumption based on the general Italian population of Chicago or nameless sources on the internet. Especially in light of the lack of cases, particularly significant cases, out Chicago.

I don’t understand the “we don’t have any evidence of it”.

Last I checked this was the most secretive of the major la cosa nostra families, which is a secret society in and of itself. Pretty sure making ceremonies aren’t broadcast on channel 7

Chicago hasn't been a "major family" in years. If we're just going to assume there have been making ceremonies post-1990's, why just stop at a few? Hell, maybe the Outfit has had one every year, making several guys in each. Might as well go big.

You exaggerate worse than the posters you claim exaggerate. Such a gaslighter. No one said every year. What credentials do you have that qualifies you to tell anyone they werent a major family post 90s??? Wtf. And again, you rely on old data from the FBI but then cherry pick what the FBI says when it fits your narrative. Cherry pick indictments but then say they are the only evidence. You want it both ways all the time, thats why you are losing your fanbase. The message is convoluted and so is the messenger.

[Coloboy]

Certainly not an official source, but Joe Fosco also mentioned something like 50 to 60 members, and that was around 2010.

Assuming that was on the high side, I don’t think between 20 and 40 is totally unreasonable

[Wiseguy]

You exaggerate worse than the posters you claim exaggerate. Such a gaslighter. No one said every year. What credentials do you have that qualifies you to tell anyone they werent a major family post 90s??? Wtf. And again, you rely on old data from the FBI but then cherry pick what the FBI says when it fits your narrative. Cherry pick indictments but then say they are the only evidence. You want it both ways all the time, thats why you are losing your fanbase. The message is convoluted and so is the messenger.

First, if the FBI had the Outfit at 28 members 15 years ago, what do you think has happened since then? In what world would the Outfit grow larger or stay the same over that timeframe?

Second, if we're looking at the remaining active families today in terms of relative size, strength, activity, etc., the only "major" ones would be in New York. A handful of comparatively minor ones elsewhere. Chicago being one of those.

Third, I've never had a fanbase. Not sure who you're talking about.

Certainly not an official source, but Joe Fosco also mentioned something like 50 to 60 members, and that was around 2010.

Assuming that was on the high side, I don’t think between 20 and 40 is totally unreasonable

Fosco says a lot of things.

[Newyorkempire]

You exaggerate worse than the posters you claim exaggerate. Such a gaslighter. No one said every year. What credentials do you have that qualifies you to tell anyone they werent a major family post 90s??? Wtf. And again, you rely on old data from the FBI but then cherry pick what the FBI says when it fits your narrative. Cherry pick indictments but then say they are the only evidence. You want it both ways all the time, thats why you are losing your fanbase. The message is convoluted and so is the messenger.

First, if the FBI had the Outfit at 28 members 15 years ago, what do you think has happened since then? In what world would the Outfit grow larger or stay the same over that timeframe?

Second, if we're looking at the remaining active families today in terms of relative size, strength, activity, etc., the only "major" ones would be in New York. A handful of comparatively minor ones elsewhere. Chicago being one of those.

Third, I've never had a fanbase. Not sure who you're talking about.

Certainly not an official source, but Joe Fosco also mentioned something like 50 to 60 members, and that was around 2010.

Assuming that was on the high side, I don’t think between 20 and 40 is totally unreasonable

Fosco says a lot of things.

Lol dude. The FBI doesnt know everything. As proven many times over. You cant have it both ways. You want it every way to Sunday. Again, this is how women behave.

"Fanbase"....youve attempted to gain trust amongst other posters but have failed miserably by claiming everyone elses input is bullshit Hence the large divide on this forum now. You are not an expert. You are an FBI/article relay guy. Nothing more. Ironically, at the same time admitting they get things wrong all the time. This is called hypocrisy. Do you understand?

[Wiseguy]

Lol dude. The FBI doesnt know everything. As proven many times over. You cant have it both ways. You want it every way too Sunday. Again, this is how women behave.

Nobody said the FBI knows everything. But I'll go with them over suppositions based on the Italian population of Chicago or second-hand hearsay via the internet. But that's me.

[Newyorkempire]

Lol dude. The FBI doesnt know everything. As proven many times over. You cant have it both ways. You want it every way too Sunday. Again, this is how women behave.

Nobody said the FBI knows everything. But I'll go with them over suppositions based on the Italian population of Chicago or second-hand hearsay via the internet. But that's me.

Thats my whole point. But then you'll take any indictment from the FBI and pick it apart, give you're own take on it and then say it has little meaning. Its really bizarre. Further, not everyone us giving suppositions only. Some people have direct knowledge on here whether you believe it or not. And again, the irony is you give suppositions when you use words/terms like "I suspect"...youre not even understanding what you are doing is the saddest part. YOU ARE GIVING HEARSAY