A Second Ontario Man Made by the Gambino's in California

[NickleCity]

The couple FBI docs I have on Longo connecting him to Ontario, LA, & Buffalo.

[OcSleeper]

"The [police agent] stated that [he] would have thought that 'they' would have gotten rid of [Pat Musitano] before his brother, [Angelo Musitano]. D Violi stated that 'they' wanted to show [Pat Musitano]; that it was a message, D Violi thought," the court documents say.

"'They had told D Violi that before Christmas [Pat Musitano] would be gone; that that would be one headache out of the way."

It's odd how Violi seemed to be in the loop of what was happening with the Musitanos based off of the bits and pieces of his recordings we can find quoted in several articles but for whatever reason Todaro wasn't made aware of Paolo Caputo & Ablert Iavarone's alleged induction.

With Violi seemingly agreeing that Todaro was right to be upset, it seems likely he wasn't made aware either. It looks to be a case of the Gambinos/LA asking forgiveness instead of permission. But why risk that ongoing relationship, whatever their interests are in Ontario it would run far more smoother with Buffalo/Violi-Luppino's approval/blessing than without it.

You also have to wonder if Martino Caputo was made like Sergi said, did Buffalo know about him? Like I said earlier, if Martino was made, his induction must have been at least nearly 10 years ago since he's been in prison since 2013.

[Newyorkempire]

The couple FBI docs I have on Longo connecting him to Ontario, LA, & Buffalo.

What it does is further confirm the control Buffalo had over Toronto.

[B.]

Longo is the one whose cousin was proposed by the 'Ndrangheta in Ontario and they asked Magaddino to vouch for the guy but he refused because they're a different organization. He said they had to contact San Giorgi Morgeto in Reggio.

Caputo and Iavarone are two people out of left field whether made in LA or the Gambinos. You'd think there'd be other people in Ontario more "in network" who would have been made before these two. If they made anyone else in Ontario before this, have to wonder if they did notify Todaro that time and the protocol violation was only in a later instance.

[OcSleeper]

According to Paolo's obituary he was born in Capistrano, Calabria. So yeah who knows how they got involved with the Gambinos/LA.

This may go a little off topic and if Niz wants we can move it over to the Buffalo thread. But I was going through a couple articles this morning and found this.

In the court documents, Violi is quoted as saying the Musitanos were supporting the Cuntrera's — a crime family that has roots in Montreal and Toronto. Someone set a fire and shot up the home of Giuseppe Cuntrera, who is called "Big Joe" in the court documents, in 2017.

"'They' said, ok you support [them] we would fix you too. The [police agent] asked if [Pat Musitano] was around. D Violi stated that [P Musitano] was around, but that he was in hiding; that he was not in Hamilton, he was outside," the court documents say.

This seems like a forgotten (I know I forgot until I read it this morning) or ignored part of the story. The Musitanos apparently weren't killed over some Hamilton beef that goes back 10-20 years or even a couple years, they were killed for supporting Cuntrera. IIRC Giuseppe Cuntrera or another Cuntrera/Caruana had their car or garage torched too in recent years.

Looking back in the threads that discuss this, a couple posters said this was a beef between the Cuntreras and Commissos over the Commissos ripping them off. Someone said the Cuntreras had Cosimo Commisso killed in 2018 and the Commissos went to New York to ask for help/permission to hit back.
viewtopic.php?p=188593#p188593

[nizarsoccer]

According to Paolo's obituary he was born in Capistrano, Calabria. So yeah who knows how they got involved with the Gambinos/LA.

This may go a little off topic and if Niz wants we can move it over to the Buffalo thread. But I was going through a couple articles this morning and found this.

In the court documents, Violi is quoted as saying the Musitanos were supporting the Cuntrera's — a crime family that has roots in Montreal and Toronto. Someone set a fire and shot up the home of Giuseppe Cuntrera, who is called "Big Joe" in the court documents, in 2017.

"'They' said, ok you support [them] we would fix you too. The [police agent] asked if [Pat Musitano] was around. D Violi stated that [P Musitano] was around, but that he was in hiding; that he was not in Hamilton, he was outside," the court documents say.

This seems like a forgotten (I know I forgot until I read it this morning) or ignored part of the story. The Musitanos apparently weren't killed over some Hamilton beef that goes back 10-20 years or even a couple years, they were killed for supporting Cuntrera. IIRC Giuseppe Cuntrera or another Cuntrera/Caruana had their car or garage torched too in recent years.

Looking back in the threads that discuss this, a couple posters said this was a beef between the Cuntreras and Commissos over the Commissos ripping them off. Someone said the Cuntreras had Cosimo Commisso killed in 2018 and the Commissos went to New York to ask for help/permission to hit back.
viewtopic.php?p=188593#p188593

Do whatever you feel is more appropriate. Y'all are the experts after all.

[Moscone65]

According to Paolo's obituary he was born in Capistrano, Calabria. So yeah who knows how they got involved with the Gambinos/LA.

This may go a little off topic and if Niz wants we can move it over to the Buffalo thread. But I was going through a couple articles this morning and found this.

In the court documents, Violi is quoted as saying the Musitanos were supporting the Cuntrera's — a crime family that has roots in Montreal and Toronto. Someone set a fire and shot up the home of Giuseppe Cuntrera, who is called "Big Joe" in the court documents, in 2017.

"'They' said, ok you support [them] we would fix you too. The [police agent] asked if [Pat Musitano] was around. D Violi stated that [P Musitano] was around, but that he was in hiding; that he was not in Hamilton, he was outside," the court documents say.

This seems like a forgotten (I know I forgot until I read it this morning) or ignored part of the story. The Musitanos apparently weren't killed over some Hamilton beef that goes back 10-20 years or even a couple years, they were killed for supporting Cuntrera. IIRC Giuseppe Cuntrera or another Cuntrera/Caruana had their car or garage torched too in recent years.

Looking back in the threads that discuss this, a couple posters said this was a beef between the Cuntreras and Commissos over the Commissos ripping them off. Someone said the Cuntreras had Cosimo Commisso killed in 2018 and the Commissos went to New York to ask for help/permission to hit back.
viewtopic.php?p=188593#p188593

Indeed and if it’s true that they went to New York to ask for the help/permission, it makes sense that there was a lcn aspect involved to it too. From what I understand the recent conflicts involve two sides:

Side 1: Rizzuto, caruana cuntreras (the main Sicilians in the greater Toronto area), and the musitanos. This side also we’re the ones helping the wolfpack guys from bc head to ontario, fully well knowing it would help take drug money away from the Toronto ndrangheta groups.

Side 2: The remaining Montreal calabrese cotroni faction, the toronto ndrangheta, and the Buffalo family, specifically the Canadian faction. This side also had the Toronto and Woodbridge chapters of the hells angels backing up the ndrangheta.

So when the commissos went to New York, they most likely were reaching out to either the bonnanos, the gambinos or both.

[Moscone65]

Also, why would Joe todaro, who allegedly was angry that they were not made in his family, let the murders of a Gambino member happen? Would be too dangerous considering the proximity to nyc? I don’t know it’s confusing…

Todaro wasn't upset they weren't made into his family, he was upset they were made in his territory (Ontario) without his approval/knowing.

I don't think Todaro let the murders happen. Paolo Caputo's murder was believed to be carried out by the Sinaloa Cartel for his brother, Martino's unpaid debts. Although, it is interesting that 2/3 alleged known Gambino/LA members in Ontario were killed around the same general time. Maybe Paolo's murder deserves to be looked into again given this new information.

Iavarone's murder was suspected to be revenge for the murder of Angelo Musitano. If you remember a few months back Nicole O'Reilly did a 5-part article on the investigation into Musitano's murder and revealed calls were placed to Tony & Jospeh Iavarone after Angelo Musitano was killed.
https://www.thespec.com/news/crime/anal ... art-1.html

If Pat was a Buffalo member like Manning & Metelsky suspect/believe and based off of the Violi recordings, Buffalo sanctioned the Musitano murders. Iavarone's murder would then be Pat acting on his own getting revenge.

Your right, it does make sense that pat was acting on his own there at this point, perhaps with loose backing from the caruana cuntreras and rizzutos, albeit neither of the groups could do much to protect pat.

[Moscone65]

As a side note, while nowadays the figliomeni group is seen to be the top dogs, in Vaughan atleast, the commissos have always had a dangerous reputation here. They will murder easily and are cold blooded, mind you a lot of their guys are ghosts. You only see them in “public” if they are at a wedding or funeral, otherwise they never show their faces. I’m talking about middle aged guys here, and the muia group works closely with them. They are very insular, if you aren’t sidernese or at least from reggio provincia, they won’t talk much business with you. Even if your from cosenza or catanzaro in Calabria that’s basically another part of Italy to them.

[CabriniGreen]

As a side note, while nowadays the figliomeni group is seen to be the top dogs, in Vaughan atleast, the commissos have always had a dangerous reputation here. They will murder easily and are cold blooded, mind you a lot of their guys are ghosts. You only see them in “public” if they are at a wedding or funeral, otherwise they never show their faces. I’m talking about middle aged guys here, and the muia group works closely with them. They are very insular, if you aren’t sidernese or at least from reggio provincia, they won’t talk much business with you. Even if your from cosenza or catanzaro in Calabria that’s basically another part of Italy to them.

Arnt the Figliomenis part of the same locale? I thought they were tops because the Commissos and Rumbas got locked up, and then the Muia brother got hit. All that left the Figliomennis as the most senior guys on the street. Or no?

[Moscone65]

Pretty much but the commisso bros are still on the street. There are lots of muias though, and they are all intermarried with each other (muia with commisso, coluccio with commisso, ect)

[Moscone65]

As a side note, while nowadays the figliomeni group is seen to be the top dogs, in Vaughan atleast, the commissos have always had a dangerous reputation here. They will murder easily and are cold blooded, mind you a lot of their guys are ghosts. You only see them in “public” if they are at a wedding or funeral, otherwise they never show their faces. I’m talking about middle aged guys here, and the muia group works closely with them. They are very insular, if you aren’t sidernese or at least from reggio provincia, they won’t talk much business with you. Even if your from cosenza or catanzaro in Calabria that’s basically another part of Italy to them.

Arnt the Figliomenis part of the same locale? I thought they were tops because the Commissos and Rumbas got locked up, and then the Muia brother got hit. All that left the Figliomennis as the most senior guys on the street. Or no?

Also to be honest, I have no idea who’s the boss of the Toronto locale. I thought it was cosimo commisso but people allude to different things when you ask them, so it’s always changing. Also, ciccio fromaggio (Carmine verducci) was a very important guy in my opinion, more so than the media makes to believe. Everyone I speak to who’s connected hold reverence for the guy even though he’s been dead for almost 10 years.

[CabriniGreen]

As a side note, while nowadays the figliomeni group is seen to be the top dogs, in Vaughan atleast, the commissos have always had a dangerous reputation here. They will murder easily and are cold blooded, mind you a lot of their guys are ghosts. You only see them in “public” if they are at a wedding or funeral, otherwise they never show their faces. I’m talking about middle aged guys here, and the muia group works closely with them. They are very insular, if you aren’t sidernese or at least from reggio provincia, they won’t talk much business with you. Even if your from cosenza or catanzaro in Calabria that’s basically another part of Italy to them.

Arnt the Figliomenis part of the same locale? I thought they were tops because the Commissos and Rumbas got locked up, and then the Muia brother got hit. All that left the Figliomennis as the most senior guys on the street. Or no?

Also to be honest, I have no idea who’s the boss of the Toronto locale. I thought it was cosimo commisso but people allude to different things when you ask them, so it’s always changing. Also, ciccio fromaggio (Carmine verducci) was a very important guy in my opinion, more so than the media makes to believe. Everyone I speak to who’s connected hold reverence for the guy even though he’s been dead for almost 10 years.

It's still a mystery why Verduci got killed. He was Capo locale I think, but for a different locale. The same one with the Coluccios. And The Ursinos were a different one as well. For years it was wrongly assumed it was only the Siderno/ Commisso locale, but that's a relatively recent development, from what I've read.

[CabriniGreen]

My theory is that as the transatlantic messenger for the Coluccio, the Siderno people wanted to curb the power of the Coluccios in Toronto.

[Moscone65]

My theory is that as the transatlantic messenger for the Coluccio, the Siderno people wanted to curb the power of the Coluccios in Toronto.

That’s a good hypothesis. It’s very plausible that’s the case. I have a good friend though that is sidernese (commisso) but his second cousins are coluccio and they are very very close, they travel to Calabria together with their families and everything, so it depends I guess.