Cleveland John Scalish Deathbed wishes

[FriendofFamily]

Call me crazy, why not everyone else does, but I seem to recall that Tony Delsanter was thrown in the mix for Boss. Maybe FoF knows?

Can any1 comment on this?

The only thing that is to be said about that is as follows:

Tony Delsanter was in a conversation with Jack White when Rockman and Lonardo were asking him (Jack White) to take the Boss Job. Jack White asked "Why don't you (Tony DelSanter) take the Boss Job". Tony DelSanter told Jack White he didn't want the Job as Boss. That is why Tony Delsanter told Jack White that he would help out, if Jack White became Boss, (which would be Advisor, the #3, Consigliere). Now you know why you had Jack White, Angelo Lonardo, Tony DelSanter as the 1,2,3 Combo. Rockman would still be working with Jack White doing his usual things.

Now you know....

[Villain]

Call me crazy, why not everyone else does, but I seem to recall that Tony Delsanter was thrown in the mix for Boss. Maybe FoF knows?

Can any1 comment on this?

The only thing that is to be said about that is as follows:

Tony Delsanter was in a conversation with Jack White when Rockman and Lonardo were asking him (Jack White) to take the Boss Job. Jack White asked "Why don't you (Tony DelSanter) take the Boss Job". Tony DelSanter told Jack White he didn't want the Job as Boss. That is why Tony Delsanter told Jack White that he would help out, if Jack White became Boss, (which would be Advisor, the #3, Consigliere). Now you know why you had Jack White, Angelo Lonardo, Tony DelSanter as the 1,2,3 Combo. Rockman would still be working with Jack White doing his usual things.

Now you know....

Thanks. What nationality was Delsanter? Italian right?

[PolackTony]

Call me crazy, why not everyone else does, but I seem to recall that Tony Delsanter was thrown in the mix for Boss. Maybe FoF knows?

Can any1 comment on this?

The only thing that is to be said about that is as follows:

Tony Delsanter was in a conversation with Jack White when Rockman and Lonardo were asking him (Jack White) to take the Boss Job. Jack White asked "Why don't you (Tony DelSanter) take the Boss Job". Tony DelSanter told Jack White he didn't want the Job as Boss. That is why Tony Delsanter told Jack White that he would help out, if Jack White became Boss, (which would be Advisor, the #3, Consigliere). Now you know why you had Jack White, Angelo Lonardo, Tony DelSanter as the 1,2,3 Combo. Rockman would still be working with Jack White doing his usual things.

Now you know....

Thanks. What nationality was Delsanter? Italian right?

Yes, from what I can tell he was born in Cleveland to parents from Campobasso, Molise. Delsanter seems to have been a deformation of D'Alessandro (his father was Pasquale D'Alessandro). Perhaps "Delsanter" was the result of an English speaker trying to phonetically render the pronunciation of D'Alessandro given in Molisano dialect (something like "Duhluhsandr'"). Looks like some documents may have also spelled it as "Delsandro"

[Villain]

Call me crazy, why not everyone else does, but I seem to recall that Tony Delsanter was thrown in the mix for Boss. Maybe FoF knows?

Can any1 comment on this?

The only thing that is to be said about that is as follows:

Tony Delsanter was in a conversation with Jack White when Rockman and Lonardo were asking him (Jack White) to take the Boss Job. Jack White asked "Why don't you (Tony DelSanter) take the Boss Job". Tony DelSanter told Jack White he didn't want the Job as Boss. That is why Tony Delsanter told Jack White that he would help out, if Jack White became Boss, (which would be Advisor, the #3, Consigliere). Now you know why you had Jack White, Angelo Lonardo, Tony DelSanter as the 1,2,3 Combo. Rockman would still be working with Jack White doing his usual things.

Now you know....

Thanks. What nationality was Delsanter? Italian right?

Yes, from what I can tell he was born in Cleveland to parents from Campobasso, Molise. Delsanter seems to have been a deformation of D'Alessandro (his father was Pasquale D'Alessandro). Perhaps "Delsanter" was the result of an English speaker trying to phonetically render the pronunciation of D'Alessandro given in Molisano dialect (something like "Duhluhsandr'"). Looks like some documents may have also spelled it as "Delsandro"

Thanks for the explanation. There used to be one old time Chicago bootlegger known as Eugene D'Alessandro who was killed in 1938.

Also if Rockman together with Lonardo pushed for Jack White to become the boss, does that make Rockman part of the inner workings of the Cleveland CN family and not only operational associate? Does that mean Rockman had a vote or at least had influence over high level made guys and their votes?

[Stroccos]

Lastly, I didn't speak to him directly, but according to Paul Weisenbach (sp?) he's heard from credible sources that Russel Pappalardo is boss and has "an administration." I'm not advocating that to be a fact but I'm not discounting it either. I know this may annoy but just to be clear- there's not going to be any secret functioning family to be discovered. These guys, if true, are position holders that connects them to the national structure. And let's make sure we're very clear here for both sides: this does not imply any Cleveland resurgence. It may not even be true but I heard it, so there it is.

Paul has a tendency to make shit up , after all he is a con man

[Stroccos]

http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_231.html

Just saw the above about Joe Iacobacci, which includes this reference:

According to the FBI, Iacobacci was to use his influence with Mafia figures in New Jersey to open large bank accounts. Allegedly, one of his friends is Philip C. Abramo, a high-ranking member of the New Jersey-based DeCavalcante crime family and a man whose tentacles extend into Wall Street’s financial circles.

Does anyone know more about Joe Iacobacci's connections to the DeCavalcante family? The scam didn't pan out, but interesting he had ties to Abramo and the DeCavalcantes. Never heard this.

Abramo was also tyring to get some phone scam going with some Cleveland guys including joe loose , there was a meeting at tony delmontis coffee shop i think the new jersey connection came from prison and abramo got introduced to loose from there mutal connection

[Stroccos]

Call me crazy, why not everyone else does, but I seem to recall that Tony Delsanter was thrown in the mix for Boss. Maybe FoF knows?

Can any1 comment on this?

The only thing that is to be said about that is as follows:

Tony Delsanter was in a conversation with Jack White when Rockman and Lonardo were asking him (Jack White) to take the Boss Job. Jack White asked "Why don't you (Tony DelSanter) take the Boss Job". Tony DelSanter told Jack White he didn't want the Job as Boss. That is why Tony Delsanter told Jack White that he would help out, if Jack White became Boss, (which would be Advisor, the #3, Consigliere). Now you know why you had Jack White, Angelo Lonardo, Tony DelSanter as the 1,2,3 Combo. Rockman would still be working with Jack White doing his usual things.

Now you know....

Thanks. What nationality was Delsanter? Italian right?

Yes, from what I can tell he was born in Cleveland to parents from Campobasso, Molise. Delsanter seems to have been a deformation of D'Alessandro (his father was Pasquale D'Alessandro). Perhaps "Delsanter" was the result of an English speaker trying to phonetically render the pronunciation of D'Alessandro given in Molisano dialect (something like "Duhluhsandr'"). Looks like some documents may have also spelled it as "Delsandro"

Thanks for the explanation. There used to be one old time Chicago bootlegger known as Eugene D'Alessandro who was killed in 1938.

Also if Rockman together with Lonardo pushed for Jack White to become the boss, does that make Rockman part of the inner workings of the Cleveland CN family and not only operational associate? Does that mean Rockman had a vote or at least had influence over high level made guys and their votes?

Your making too much out of it - Rockman was treated as a made man plain and simple. Did he issues orders to mafia made men ? No. Was Rockman in an Integral part of the Cleveland family and it’s hierarchy, no doubt.

There where only like five to ten active Made Men left in the family by this point .

Let’s not also forget that Lonardo killed a boss or former boss Dr. Romano. They were still small contingent of old timers who didn’t like Lonardo they held Romano in High Regards. It’s also possible that’s why John Demarco was passed over his boss for Scalish

[JCB1977]

I think Lonardo was the logical choice. Rockman said that Licavoli was chosen to be new boss but Rockman was closer to Licavoli then he was to Lonardo. The question was weather Rockman could control Licavoli easier then Lonardo.

Lonardo and Rockman were brother in laws, they were both married to a Scalish sister. They definitely had friction and when Lonardo met with Chicago he asked Rockman to take walk when the sit down started. Both were very close to Scalish.

Rockman also knew he could control Jack White...never would have happened under Lonardo...in Leonardo’s eyes, Maishe was a Jew.

[Villain]

Call me crazy, why not everyone else does, but I seem to recall that Tony Delsanter was thrown in the mix for Boss. Maybe FoF knows?

Can any1 comment on this?

The only thing that is to be said about that is as follows:

Tony Delsanter was in a conversation with Jack White when Rockman and Lonardo were asking him (Jack White) to take the Boss Job. Jack White asked "Why don't you (Tony DelSanter) take the Boss Job". Tony DelSanter told Jack White he didn't want the Job as Boss. That is why Tony Delsanter told Jack White that he would help out, if Jack White became Boss, (which would be Advisor, the #3, Consigliere). Now you know why you had Jack White, Angelo Lonardo, Tony DelSanter as the 1,2,3 Combo. Rockman would still be working with Jack White doing his usual things.

Now you know....

Thanks. What nationality was Delsanter? Italian right?

Yes, from what I can tell he was born in Cleveland to parents from Campobasso, Molise. Delsanter seems to have been a deformation of D'Alessandro (his father was Pasquale D'Alessandro). Perhaps "Delsanter" was the result of an English speaker trying to phonetically render the pronunciation of D'Alessandro given in Molisano dialect (something like "Duhluhsandr'"). Looks like some documents may have also spelled it as "Delsandro"

Thanks for the explanation. There used to be one old time Chicago bootlegger known as Eugene D'Alessandro who was killed in 1938.

Also if Rockman together with Lonardo pushed for Jack White to become the boss, does that make Rockman part of the inner workings of the Cleveland CN family and not only operational associate? Does that mean Rockman had a vote or at least had influence over high level made guys and their votes?

Your making too much out of it - Rockman was treated as a made man plain and simple. Did he issues orders to mafia made men ? No. Was Rockman in an Integral part of the Cleveland family and it’s hierarchy, no doubt.

Thats the thing i was waiting for some1 from the Cleveland researchers like you to say it/confirm it. Thanks again

[Villain]

I think Lonardo was the logical choice. Rockman said that Licavoli was chosen to be new boss but Rockman was closer to Licavoli then he was to Lonardo. The question was weather Rockman could control Licavoli easier then Lonardo.

Lonardo and Rockman were brother in laws, they were both married to a Scalish sister. They definitely had friction and when Lonardo met with Chicago he asked Rockman to take walk when the sit down started. Both were very close to Scalish.

Rockman also knew he could control Jack White...never would have happened under Lonardo...in Leonardo’s eyes, Maishe was a Jew.

Thanks for the details. I find quite interesting the situation in which both Rockman and Lonardo were married into the same family...it seems old man Scalish was all about cash and connections....in some east coast crime families, if there was a friction, usually the non-Ital got the "best" of it, way worst than the situation in which Rockman had to leave the meeting. This also might suggest (like you already said) that Rockman left that meeting only because of the alleged friction between him and Lonardo, not because Rockman was simply a non-Ital or any guys from the opposition had a problem with it. It seems Lonardo looked at him as a simple Jew because of the problem. This also very much corresponds with the moment that later the Chi boys apologized to Rockman.

The truth can usually be found in the details. Cheers

[Stroccos]

I think Lonardo was the logical choice. Rockman said that Licavoli was chosen to be new boss but Rockman was closer to Licavoli then he was to Lonardo. The question was weather Rockman could control Licavoli easier then Lonardo.

Lonardo and Rockman were brother in laws, they were both married to a Scalish sister. They definitely had friction and when Lonardo met with Chicago he asked Rockman to take walk when the sit down started. Both were very close to Scalish.

Rockman also knew he could control Jack White...never would have happened under Lonardo...in Leonardo’s eyes, Maishe was a Jew.

Thanks for the details. I find quite interesting the situation in which both Rockman and Lonardo were married into the same family...it seems old man Scalish was all about cash and connections....in some east coast crime families, if there was a friction, usually the non-Ital got the "best" of it, way worst than the situation in which Rockman had to leave the meeting. This also might suggest (like you already said) that Rockman left that meeting only because of the alleged friction between him and Lonardo, not because Rockman was simply a non-Ital or any guys from the opposition had a problem with it. It seems Lonardo looked at him as a simple Jew because of the problem. This also very much corresponds with the moment that later the Chi boys apologized to Rockman.

The truth can usually be found in the details. Cheers

it was the chicago guy who asked him to leave

rockman he converted to catholic, I think lonardo was ok with Rockman until big ange went to jail

[Stroccos]

It really depends on what's being discussed in a given meeting. If a meeting involves introductions as "amico nostra" or discussion of mafia ranks, politics, and protocol, a non-member would not be allowed in the room. If they are discussing money, business, or crime with no references to the mafia organization, a non-member would be allowed to participate. There is no rule that non-members can't meet with members, even bosses, and it has happened all the time throughout the history of the mafia. Only if the meeting concerns details relating to the mafia organization's inner workings and politics would a non-member would have to leave the room, possibly only temporarily while those matters are discussed.

However, exceptions are made in direct discussions between members and close associates. Member Vincent Asaro repeatedly told his non-member cousin Valenti about the ranks, membership, and politics of the mafia in private conversations, but Valenti was not allowed to attend meetings between other members where these matters were discussed, though he could attend meetings to discuss crime and business with members. Stefano LaTorre told his sons in Pittston all about the organization, its membership and history, but the sons were not members and would not have been included in organizational discussions with other members despite having inside knowledge as non-members.

St. Louis used a non-Italian in East St. Louis to arrange meetings with Chicago mafia leaders and the non-Italian in East St. Louis traveled with Tony Giordano to Chicago where he spent time with all of the made members, but he did not attend parts of the meeting where mafia protocol was discussed among the members.

clevelasnd wasn't as serious with the rules

scalish was discussing mafia ranks and protocol with associates when he told them that bonanno was shelved caught on wire tap


joey gallo told joey tiscaro over the phone the whole structure and problem with the celveland family dying from attrtion and of course the feds were listeting in

[Villain]

I think Lonardo was the logical choice. Rockman said that Licavoli was chosen to be new boss but Rockman was closer to Licavoli then he was to Lonardo. The question was weather Rockman could control Licavoli easier then Lonardo.

Lonardo and Rockman were brother in laws, they were both married to a Scalish sister. They definitely had friction and when Lonardo met with Chicago he asked Rockman to take walk when the sit down started. Both were very close to Scalish.

Rockman also knew he could control Jack White...never would have happened under Lonardo...in Leonardo’s eyes, Maishe was a Jew.

Thanks for the details. I find quite interesting the situation in which both Rockman and Lonardo were married into the same family...it seems old man Scalish was all about cash and connections....in some east coast crime families, if there was a friction, usually the non-Ital got the "best" of it, way worst than the situation in which Rockman had to leave the meeting. This also might suggest (like you already said) that Rockman left that meeting only because of the alleged friction between him and Lonardo, not because Rockman was simply a non-Ital or any guys from the opposition had a problem with it. It seems Lonardo looked at him as a simple Jew because of the problem. This also very much corresponds with the moment that later the Chi boys apologized to Rockman.

The truth can usually be found in the details. Cheers

it was the chicago guy who asked him to leave

rockman he converted to catholic, I think lonardo was ok with Rockman until big ange went to jail

Oh so its not like JCB said but instead it was the other way around. Thanks for the correction. I wonder why the Chi fellas told him to leave? Btw wasnt Dalitz one of Clevelands guys in Vegas? I remember he having sit downs with many high level Outfit members during the 50s and 60s...Roselli tried to extort him once and almost got killed by Ricca because of it

[Stroccos]

I think Lonardo was the logical choice. Rockman said that Licavoli was chosen to be new boss but Rockman was closer to Licavoli then he was to Lonardo. The question was weather Rockman could control Licavoli easier then Lonardo.

Lonardo and Rockman were brother in laws, they were both married to a Scalish sister. They definitely had friction and when Lonardo met with Chicago he asked Rockman to take walk when the sit down started. Both were very close to Scalish.

Rockman also knew he could control Jack White...never would have happened under Lonardo...in Leonardo’s eyes, Maishe was a Jew.

Thanks for the details. I find quite interesting the situation in which both Rockman and Lonardo were married into the same family...it seems old man Scalish was all about cash and connections....in some east coast crime families, if there was a friction, usually the non-Ital got the "best" of it, way worst than the situation in which Rockman had to leave the meeting. This also might suggest (like you already said) that Rockman left that meeting only because of the alleged friction between him and Lonardo, not because Rockman was simply a non-Ital or any guys from the opposition had a problem with it. It seems Lonardo looked at him as a simple Jew because of the problem. This also very much corresponds with the moment that later the Chi boys apologized to Rockman.

The truth can usually be found in the details. Cheers

it was the chicago guy who asked him to leave

rockman he converted to catholic, I think lonardo was ok with Rockman until big ange went to jail

Oh so its not like JCB said but instead it was the other way around. Thanks for the correction. I wonder why the Chi fellas told him to leave? Btw wasnt Dalitz one of Clevelands guys in Vegas? I remember he having sit downs with many high level Outfit members during the 50s and 60s...Roselli tried to extort him once and almost got killed by Ricca because of it

I don't know , I believe lonardo said because he wasn't made they didn't realize he was in charge of the skim fo Cleveland. wasn't there a beef with the skim and Chicago stepped in and that's how they got there piece


yeH DALITZ was partners with the Mayfield road mob , major player big earner, i can only assume he was protected by the top guys

[Villain]

I don't know , I believe lonardo said because he wasn't made they didn't realize he was in charge of the skim fo Cleveland. wasn't there a beef with the skim and Chicago stepped in and that's how they got there piece

Thanks again and i have to research that since im first time hearing about this or maybe some of the fellas can add something to it...

Btw, you ever stumbled upon this?