Any new made guys since 2010?

[phatmatress]

I can agree they are all similar but I'm with pogo I doubt Detroit has that many out there . It was bullshit against ligambi but they also wanted his ass and put him out of commission. They didn't hold him w/o bail for no reason for almost 2 years. The last indictment I recall for the Patricas was against lugi mannochio for collecting protection payments of strip clubs. He wasn't even living anywhere close at the time he was down in Florida. Like I said outside of New York philly is the most active. They are not at they're height of the hey day I didn't mean that, I just meant in comparison to the others outside of nyc they are the most active. I think things are going to be even more active once merlino is no longer on parole. He wasn't having meetings in Florida with high ranking members of the philly mob for fun...


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[Pogo The Clown]

You may be right last estimate I saw was 25-30 but the point is do you honestly believe philly is that much stronger than NE or Detroit or any other family besides NY? I think the differences are neglible between the 2nd tier families. 1st tier is NY. 2nd is chicago, NE, philly, Detroit in no particular order. then you get into the decavs and then the rest of the families barely hanging on. That's the way I see it at least maybe Detroit beginf the other 2nd tiers but I don't think its a blow out

I agree with this. Though I would put the DeCavalcantes in the 2nd tier as well. As we have seen with this recent bust they are still fully structured, still making new members and still active as an organization.


Pogo

[Pete]

I can agree they are all similar but I'm with pogo I doubt Detroit has that many out there . It was bullshit against ligambi but they also wanted his ass and put him out of commission. They didn't hold him w/o bail for no reason for almost 2 years. The last indictment I recall for the Patricas was against lugi mannochio for collecting protection payments of strip clubs. He wasn't even living anywhere close at the time he was down in Florida. Like I said outside of New York philly is the most active. They are not at they're height of the hey day I didn't mean that, I just meant in comparison to the others outside of nyc they are the most active. I think things are going to be even more active once merlino is no longer on parole. He wasn't having meetings in Florida with high ranking members of the philly mob for fun...


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Their acting boss after mannicho, anthony dinunzio was also indicted and pled guilty for shaking down the same clubs as mannochio

[Pogo The Clown]

And the Acting Boss after Anthony Dinunzio, Anthony "Spucky" Spagnolo, was busted for extortion and video poker machines some months back.


Pogo

[phatmatress]

I very much doubt Detroit has 30 members total let alone 30 active members.


Pogo

You may be right last estimate I saw was 25-30 but the point is do you honestly believe philly is that much stronger than NE or Detroit or any other family besides NY? I think the differences are neglible between the 2nd tier families. 1st tier is NY. 2nd is chicago, NE, philly, Detroit in no particular order. then you get into the decavs and then the rest of the families barely hanging on. That's the way I see it at least maybe Detroit beginf the other 2nd tiers but I don't think its a blow out

what would make them weaker then say Detroit? Or ne or even Chicago


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[Pete]

I very much doubt Detroit has 30 members total let alone 30 active members.


Pogo

You may be right last estimate I saw was 25-30 but the point is do you honestly believe philly is that much stronger than NE or Detroit or any other family besides NY? I think the differences are neglible between the 2nd tier families. 1st tier is NY. 2nd is chicago, NE, philly, Detroit in no particular order. then you get into the decavs and then the rest of the families barely hanging on. That's the way I see it at least maybe Detroit beginf the other 2nd tiers but I don't think its a blow out

what would make them weaker then say Detroit? Or ne or even Chicago


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I consider all those families basically the same i just didn't get how they were number one expanding and number two how they were more viable than any of those others mentioned as they probably have less active guys on the street than those families which made me consider them less viable but again I think they're similar

[phatmatress]

I very much doubt Detroit has 30 members total let alone 30 active members.


Pogo

You may be right last estimate I saw was 25-30 but the point is do you honestly believe philly is that much stronger than NE or Detroit or any other family besides NY? I think the differences are neglible between the 2nd tier families. 1st tier is NY. 2nd is chicago, NE, philly, Detroit in no particular order. then you get into the decavs and then the rest of the families barely hanging on. That's the way I see it at least maybe Detroit beginf the other 2nd tiers but I don't think its a blow out

what would make them weaker then say Detroit? Or ne or even Chicago


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I consider all those families basically the same i just didn't get how they were number one expanding and number two how they were more viable than any of those others mentioned as they probably have less active guys on the street than those families which made me consider them less viable but again I think they're similar

yeah I can agree with that. I never meant that they were expanding at a huge rate and taking over the world or anything lol. I just meant that outside of nyc as far as we know they have made the most new guys in recent years.


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[phatmatress]

You may be right last estimate I saw was 25-30 but the point is do you honestly believe philly is that much stronger than NE or Detroit or any other family besides NY? I think the differences are neglible between the 2nd tier families. 1st tier is NY. 2nd is chicago, NE, philly, Detroit in no particular order. then you get into the decavs and then the rest of the families barely hanging on. That's the way I see it at least maybe Detroit beginf the other 2nd tiers but I don't think its a blow out

I agree with this. Though I would put the DeCavalcantes in the 2nd tier as well. As we have seen with this recent bust they are still fully structured, still making new members and still active as an organization.


Pogo

what would we consider a third tier family? A family that kind exists in imaginations of forum posters like pittsburgh or buffalino or Cleveland? Lol and I was just using those as examples because we always have someone some where saying how these families are still going and anyone with knowledge knows that they are def not. I'm not trying to be a sarcastic dick or anything


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[Pete]

You may be right last estimate I saw was 25-30 but the point is do you honestly believe philly is that much stronger than NE or Detroit or any other family besides NY? I think the differences are neglible between the 2nd tier families. 1st tier is NY. 2nd is chicago, NE, philly, Detroit in no particular order. then you get into the decavs and then the rest of the families barely hanging on. That's the way I see it at least maybe Detroit beginf the other 2nd tiers but I don't think its a blow out

I agree with this. Though I would put the DeCavalcantes in the 2nd tier as well. As we have seen with this recent bust they are still fully structured, still making new members and still active as an organization.


Pogo

what would we consider a third tier family? A family that kind exists in imaginations of forum posters like pittsburgh or buffalino or Cleveland? Lol and I was just using those as examples because we always have someone some where saying how these families are still going and anyone with knowledge knows that they are def not. I'm not trying to be a sarcastic dick or anything


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Lol know I'm pretty sure those 3 are gone Pittsburgh buffalino and Cleveland . Supposedly there are still remnants in cities like Kansas city and New Orleans and a few others with some made guys operating to some extent I mean they're basically dead but I have trouble saying fully extinct when there are made guys engaged in criminal activity for comparison I would say tampa is dead even though there are a few made guys it doesn't seem like they are active at all. This is just how I look at it some people on here say a family is extinct if there is no boss underboss capos etc even if you have a crew of made guys committing crimes just depends how you look at it

[phatmatress]

@pete yeah that's the same here in the burgh their is still a few made guys left over that have some gambling cases here and there along with some minor drug cases. Like bobby I, he's a made guy who is still active to a certain extent here in Pittsburgh but set no structure left here at all.


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[Pete]

@pete yeah that's the same here in the burgh their is still a few made guys left over that have some gambling cases here and there along with some minor drug cases. Like bobby I, he's a made guy who is still active to a certain extent here in Pittsburgh but set no structure left here at all.


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See I didn't know they had any guys active left so thanks for letting me know. I know Cleveland has like 2 made guys with one retired so to me they are dead as is buffalino. Pittsburgh sounds similar to New Orleans some people say Kansas city still has a structure I don't know enough to comment though on that I suppose it's possible as they were still decent in the 80's most of the extinct families were already on life support by the 80's like tampa and Cleveland

[phatmatress]

Pittsburgh started to go down in the early 90s due to indictments and never making any new guys. But here and there a minor case usually involving gambling pops up around Pittsburgh that has some kind of minor Lcn ties


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[Wiseguy]

When it comes to Detroit, you had 29 members cited by the feds back in 1996. 30 members were cited in a 2001 article. And Scott B cited 25 in his book in 2006. But also keep in mind that over 20 members/possible members have died since 2000. Even if the family has made new members over the time frame, and "rumors" Scott has heard is all I've read on that, it's doubtful it's been anywhere near enough to balance out the ones who have died. So to say that Detroit has even 30 total members, much less active members, is a real stretch.

Pete, you bring up what you perceive to be the lack of cases in Philadelphia but apparently ignore the real lack of cases in Detroit. The last significant bust was almost a decade ago now. Before that you have to go back another decade to 1996. Ligambi being acquitted in the latest case is beside the point. You had the acting boss, acting underboss, 4 captains, and several more soldiers and associates indicted. In 2008, you had the Monacello case where 17 people were indicted. Another mob bookmaking case that year where 9 people were indicted. And the big Borgata casino case where 24 people were indicted. I could name others.

And I don't know why people keep thinking New England is dead. The Providence faction has been decimated in recent years but, prior to that, there was quite a bit of activity both in Providence and Boston. We've seen the boss and two acting bosses indicted just since 2011 in Providence and Boston, respectively. That same year 25 people, including a captain and two soldiers, were indicted in another Providence case. 31 people, including a captain and two soldiers, were indicted in Boston in 2010. In December 2008, 20 people, including the reported acting boss, were indicted in Boston. Two connected cases in Providence in 2008 and 2009 brought the arrest of 25 and 30 people, respectively. That same year, you had the nephew of the boss, who was the director of the Laborers Union New England Organizing Fund, and an associate indicted Providence. You also had the underboss indicted in Boston. And you had 13 people indicted in another Boston case.

Both the Philadelphia and New England families are said to have 40-50 total members each, as well as around 100 associates each. We've seen ongoing mob cases in both areas. The same can't be said for Detroit. At best, it can arguably be said Detroit is even one of the remaining viable families left. There just isn't any real evidence to put it on the same level as Philadelphia, New England, or New Jersey for that matter.

When people talk about "remnants," that can simply mean anywhere there are still made members still alive. There are still living members in Buffalo/Rochester, NE Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St. Louis, Kansas City, Tampa, New Orleans, Denver, and Los Angeles. Possibly Milwaukee as well. However that doesn't mean there are any families there that are still structured or active enough to be acknowledged by the FBI. At least as far back as 2000, and again in 2004, the feds were citing only 9 families left. Some other reported over that same time frame have also mentioned Detroit so, at best, it's debatable about that family.

When people rely on only the latest case they can remember, it just doesn't provide an adequate view of the recent activity of a mob family.

[Pogo The Clown]

Wiseguy if it is not too much trouble can you re-post the lists of mob cases in Philly and NE over the last 15 years that you have posted in the past? Thanks.


Pogo

[B.]

I'd be curious if all of the families in NY are following the Genovese family in making members strip down and wear a bathrobe, with minimal attendance from other members.

We know that Philly was still following the standard ceremony up until recent times. I assume their more recent ceremonies since 2010 have been the same.