Maybe you didn't notice, but I linked to the FBI file that's the source of this info.mafiastudent wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:40 pm *Daily News --- It's late...Larry McShane from the NY Daily News...
New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
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Re: Fateful 1976 NYC mob Commission vote to admit new members marked a Mafia turning point in retrospect
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mafiastudent
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Re: Fateful 1976 NYC mob Commission vote to admit new members marked a Mafia turning point in retrospect
I posted this in a separate thread that Hairy Knuckles combined with this one. I posted the story from NY Daily News....The STORY.Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:52 pmMaybe you didn't notice, but I linked to the FBI file that's the source of this info.mafiastudent wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:40 pm *Daily News --- It's late...Larry McShane from the NY Daily News...
Re: Fateful 1976 NYC mob Commission vote to admit new members marked a Mafia turning point in retrospect
It came from the Sonny Franzese FBI file that I linked.mafiastudent wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:54 pmI posted this in a separate thread that Hairy Knuckles combined with this one. I posted the story from NY Daily News....The STORY.Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:52 pmMaybe you didn't notice, but I linked to the FBI file that's the source of this info.mafiastudent wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:40 pm *Daily News --- It's late...Larry McShane from the NY Daily News...
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mafiastudent
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Re: Fateful 1976 NYC mob Commission vote to admit new members marked a Mafia turning point in retrospect
And?Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:56 pmIt came from the Sonny Franzese FBI file that I linked.mafiastudent wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:54 pmI posted this in a separate thread that Hairy Knuckles combined with this one. I posted the story from NY Daily News....The STORY.Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:52 pmMaybe you didn't notice, but I linked to the FBI file that's the source of this info.mafiastudent wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:40 pm *Daily News --- It's late...Larry McShane from the NY Daily News...
Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
And...the file contains the full context plus additional information.
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mafiastudent
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Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
Didnt fish cafaro testify in front of a Senate hearing in 1988 that he was inducted in 1974. He also said he sponcerd barney b. In 1977?
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
He misremembered the year. The restaurant he claimed the ceremony was held in wasn't opened until 1976. Don't recall him saying he sponsored Bellomo but I could be wrong.
Pogo
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
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furiofromnaples
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Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
What I would say is that Bompensiero was an informant but dont jointed the witsec for save his life.
Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
Where ever you find the cafaro testimony he says something like fat Tony asked fish to Sponcer or put barney up. His father was close with tony. I forget read it long ago
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DPG
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Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
I believe you can read Cafaro’s testimony thru Thomas Hunt’s website but I can’t seem to find it since he has remodeled the site. I’m sure Antiliar or Wiseguy can post a link to it.
I get it....first rule of fight club.
Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
You can find Cafaro's testimony in the 25 Years After Valachi report.
PDF link (it's big)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... aB1cF4C3w0
Google bool format (don't know if some pages aren't included)
https://books.google.com/books?id=9lwRA ... ro&f=false
All roads lead to New York.
Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
Here is where Cafaro says he sponsored Barney. Doesn't mention the year though.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110527124 ... _Page1.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20110527124 ... _Page1.htm
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chin_gigante
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Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
Good find
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
Re: New York's Commission voted for admitting new members in 1976
Something very interesting Valachi said in "the Real Thing" is that the books in NYC had been closed for twenty years before the Castellammarese War.
Now, we know this (probably) isn't true, but like I often say, it's part of the conversation. Valachi was a made member who didn't just pull this out of thin air, but we can look at it a few different ways:
- Maybe NYC was extremely selective about inducting members before 1930, so in a manner of speaking, it was near-impossible for the average associate to become a member at this time. This is very possible, as blood, marriage, and hometown ties were the biggest factor for membership candidacy and would have excluded many people. Valachi, who barely knew what the mafia was before he became a member, was hardly a pre-1930s mafia historian, so he may have been told that for twenty years pre-1930 "they weren't making anybody" and took it literally when it was just a figure of speech.
- Joe Bonanno, despite having the perfect pedigree to become a member, as well as the character to become a very young boss, appears to have had to wait until the late 1920s to become a member. Are there any accounts of NYC members being made between 1924-1928 when JB was around? While nowhere near the twenty years Valachi referenced, it could suggest that the books were closed for a shorter period of time leading up to the Castellammarese War, i.e. most of the 1920s.
- NYC/NJ members began to be made after WWII in the mid-1940s and this continued through the early 1950s, though some sources incorrectly claimed the books weren't opened until 1954. It's possible that the 1940s were similar to the 1920s in that the families did induct members but were much more selective, thus it wasn't common knowledge among the entire membership. The first wave of inductions in the 1940s included powerhouses like Richie Boiardo, Gerry Catena, and Nick Delmore, no doubt a higher caliber of associate. Virtually all sources agree that in the mid-1950s the families got sloppy 'n' loose with their recruitment practices, which suggests this was in contrast to earlier recruitment practices (except for the Castellammarese War, which seems to have been another period where recruitment standards were loosened, probably because of the general instability of the time).
- In relation to the above, I wonder why some members believed the books were closed between 1931 and 1954 when now it's clear they weren't? The mafia traditionally tried to introduce members on a "need to know basis", which might partially explain this. Members of both the Lucchese and DeCavalcante families (two of the most secretive families) in the 1960s described how they purposely didn't introduce members to other families. Countless sources talk about how in later generations membership became an open secret in the neighborhood and that this was in contrast to earlier generations who kept membership close to their chest. Even fellow members may not have known about the 1940s inductions because they simply didn't need to know, and if they did meet one of the new members, they wouldn't necessarily discuss when that person was made.
- Precedent. We know the families closed the books between 1931 and 1944, then between 1957 and 1976. I can't think of any sources who were "shocked" by these decisions, which suggests the trend goes back further and that "closing the books" for extended periods was not uncommon in the overall history of the mafia. The more we study the mafia, we know that it mostly stays the same and rarely revolutionizes itself. Like we talked about in the other thread, the Commission wasn't even as revolutionary as we once thought. Given the NYC books were closed for significant periods in the 1930s-40s, then in the 1950s-1970s, it gives some credence to Valachi's idea that the books had been closed for an extended period earlier... even if he didn't get the details right.
- Just because Valachi's statement might have some element of truth doesn't mean the books were closed from 1910-1930, or some similar range. Maybe the books were generally kept closed during that period of time only to be opened on select occasions, or it was sort of a fragmented "stop and go". We know a "Fred" (probably Poagy Torello) was recorded saying he was made into the Genovese family in the late 1910s and Jack Dragna told Fratianno he was made in 1914, presumably into the Morello family. Salvatore Clemente also discussed an induction though CC would have to weigh in on that as I can't remember the year -- if I remember right, it was only one member, which plays into the selectivity argument.
- Other US cities did have rapidly shrinking recruitment pools that caused them to die out, but cities like St. Louis, Cleveland, and New Orleans purposely kept their books closed for decades even in their "prime" when they still had many viable recruits. New Orleans was not required to follow Commission edicts on recruitment, so this was not a result of outside pressure. Other US families also appear to have gone years without inductions and preferred a small, selective membership. This suggests to me that it was normal for the traditional mafia to keep its books closed for extended periods.
- Much like Allie Persico and Nick Bianco being made in other cities in the 1960s and 1970s and then transferred to NYC to circumvent the books being closed, it's possible this was also in practice much earlier. It seems unlikely that everyone who was made in NYC during the 1910s and 1920s would have gone through this elaborate procedure but who knows. Look at the hoops the Bonanno and Milwaukee families jumped through in order to introduce Lefty Ruggiero as a member to Frank Balistrieri, so we know they are willing to take elaborate and inconvenient measures for relatively simple organizational matters.
- Jack Dragna mentioned above as being made in 1914 is interesting, as that is coincidentally the year he returned to the US from Sicily, so he may have been inducted in Sicily prior to his return voyage. With that in mind, we know some men returned to Sicily for visits during these years and it's possible they were inducted in Sicily during these visits before returning to the US with their new stature. It's also possible that Dragna's recent stay in Sicily contributed to his induction in the US, if indeed he was made in the US. The Sicilian branch of the mafia still had significant influence over their "friends" in the US at this time.
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Long story short, Valachi's statement should not be taken too literally, but I don't believe it's total nonsense either. I believe the mafia on the whole closed its books for extended periods and was highly selective during the periods when they were open. After all, Sicilian mafia families were not the sprawling 100-300 member families we see in large US cities, but small, primarily rural clans linked together in specific villages/towns and regions, with as few as 10 members.
Now, we know this (probably) isn't true, but like I often say, it's part of the conversation. Valachi was a made member who didn't just pull this out of thin air, but we can look at it a few different ways:
- Maybe NYC was extremely selective about inducting members before 1930, so in a manner of speaking, it was near-impossible for the average associate to become a member at this time. This is very possible, as blood, marriage, and hometown ties were the biggest factor for membership candidacy and would have excluded many people. Valachi, who barely knew what the mafia was before he became a member, was hardly a pre-1930s mafia historian, so he may have been told that for twenty years pre-1930 "they weren't making anybody" and took it literally when it was just a figure of speech.
- Joe Bonanno, despite having the perfect pedigree to become a member, as well as the character to become a very young boss, appears to have had to wait until the late 1920s to become a member. Are there any accounts of NYC members being made between 1924-1928 when JB was around? While nowhere near the twenty years Valachi referenced, it could suggest that the books were closed for a shorter period of time leading up to the Castellammarese War, i.e. most of the 1920s.
- NYC/NJ members began to be made after WWII in the mid-1940s and this continued through the early 1950s, though some sources incorrectly claimed the books weren't opened until 1954. It's possible that the 1940s were similar to the 1920s in that the families did induct members but were much more selective, thus it wasn't common knowledge among the entire membership. The first wave of inductions in the 1940s included powerhouses like Richie Boiardo, Gerry Catena, and Nick Delmore, no doubt a higher caliber of associate. Virtually all sources agree that in the mid-1950s the families got sloppy 'n' loose with their recruitment practices, which suggests this was in contrast to earlier recruitment practices (except for the Castellammarese War, which seems to have been another period where recruitment standards were loosened, probably because of the general instability of the time).
- In relation to the above, I wonder why some members believed the books were closed between 1931 and 1954 when now it's clear they weren't? The mafia traditionally tried to introduce members on a "need to know basis", which might partially explain this. Members of both the Lucchese and DeCavalcante families (two of the most secretive families) in the 1960s described how they purposely didn't introduce members to other families. Countless sources talk about how in later generations membership became an open secret in the neighborhood and that this was in contrast to earlier generations who kept membership close to their chest. Even fellow members may not have known about the 1940s inductions because they simply didn't need to know, and if they did meet one of the new members, they wouldn't necessarily discuss when that person was made.
- Precedent. We know the families closed the books between 1931 and 1944, then between 1957 and 1976. I can't think of any sources who were "shocked" by these decisions, which suggests the trend goes back further and that "closing the books" for extended periods was not uncommon in the overall history of the mafia. The more we study the mafia, we know that it mostly stays the same and rarely revolutionizes itself. Like we talked about in the other thread, the Commission wasn't even as revolutionary as we once thought. Given the NYC books were closed for significant periods in the 1930s-40s, then in the 1950s-1970s, it gives some credence to Valachi's idea that the books had been closed for an extended period earlier... even if he didn't get the details right.
- Just because Valachi's statement might have some element of truth doesn't mean the books were closed from 1910-1930, or some similar range. Maybe the books were generally kept closed during that period of time only to be opened on select occasions, or it was sort of a fragmented "stop and go". We know a "Fred" (probably Poagy Torello) was recorded saying he was made into the Genovese family in the late 1910s and Jack Dragna told Fratianno he was made in 1914, presumably into the Morello family. Salvatore Clemente also discussed an induction though CC would have to weigh in on that as I can't remember the year -- if I remember right, it was only one member, which plays into the selectivity argument.
- Other US cities did have rapidly shrinking recruitment pools that caused them to die out, but cities like St. Louis, Cleveland, and New Orleans purposely kept their books closed for decades even in their "prime" when they still had many viable recruits. New Orleans was not required to follow Commission edicts on recruitment, so this was not a result of outside pressure. Other US families also appear to have gone years without inductions and preferred a small, selective membership. This suggests to me that it was normal for the traditional mafia to keep its books closed for extended periods.
- Much like Allie Persico and Nick Bianco being made in other cities in the 1960s and 1970s and then transferred to NYC to circumvent the books being closed, it's possible this was also in practice much earlier. It seems unlikely that everyone who was made in NYC during the 1910s and 1920s would have gone through this elaborate procedure but who knows. Look at the hoops the Bonanno and Milwaukee families jumped through in order to introduce Lefty Ruggiero as a member to Frank Balistrieri, so we know they are willing to take elaborate and inconvenient measures for relatively simple organizational matters.
- Jack Dragna mentioned above as being made in 1914 is interesting, as that is coincidentally the year he returned to the US from Sicily, so he may have been inducted in Sicily prior to his return voyage. With that in mind, we know some men returned to Sicily for visits during these years and it's possible they were inducted in Sicily during these visits before returning to the US with their new stature. It's also possible that Dragna's recent stay in Sicily contributed to his induction in the US, if indeed he was made in the US. The Sicilian branch of the mafia still had significant influence over their "friends" in the US at this time.
---
Long story short, Valachi's statement should not be taken too literally, but I don't believe it's total nonsense either. I believe the mafia on the whole closed its books for extended periods and was highly selective during the periods when they were open. After all, Sicilian mafia families were not the sprawling 100-300 member families we see in large US cities, but small, primarily rural clans linked together in specific villages/towns and regions, with as few as 10 members.