powerful non italians within

[queensnyer]

I think the movie exaggerated his role for dramatic purposes...but I could be wrong. well probably never know

[Lupara]

There are people here who've done incredible research and if there was any proof that Batts was made they would've probably come across it. Perhaps bronx could chime in here because he seems to have some firsthand knowledge on the Gambinos from that time period.

[Lupara]

And the fact that only DeSimone faced consequences for the Batts murder shows how valuable Burke was. He got away with killing a made guy. And it would seem he was able to spare Henry Hill too. Or was this around the time Hill flipped anyway?

Apparantly Batts wasn't a made guy. I asked this on the forum some time ago as I questioned it myself. If he was made DeSimone would've been killed much sooner and Burke along with him.

Lufthansa happened December 1978. DeSimone was murdered in January 1979. Hill flipped in 1980. I remember reading Tommy was a pain in the ass. Paul Vario hated him. He did not even want to be in the same bar as him. He did not want him around. On the other hand, Vario supported Burke and liked him.

It would not surprise me if Vario knew Burke was involved in the Batts murder, but liked him and only told certain people that Tommy killed him. That's also first I heard of Batts not being made.

Even if he was not made, he was with Gambinos. It can also be said DeSimone killed Ronald Jerothe as well. Jerothe being a Gotti pal. Supposedly Vario leaked to Gambinos that hit as well.

yep that's why I said him and Gotti were on a collision course. Jerothe was real close to Gotti and the Bergin crew. don't know to much about Batts.

Right, we know more about Jerothe than Batts. While not trying to go too much off topic for the thread, I just did a little research on him using my powers lol.

I think Batt's biography is wrong from the little we do know about the guy. Wikipedia has him born in 1921 as William Bentvena, I think that is inaccurate. I plugged him into ancestry, looks like he was born February 22, 1933 in NYC. Another thing was he was busted for heroin in February 1959. I attached the news article if anyone cares of that bust. According to that article, he was 25 when he was busted. I doubt he was a made guy so young.

Aside from that, that is about all I know about the guy.

He would've been made before the books closed. It probably wasn't extremely rare for guys under 30 to be made in the 50s but those that were made either were exceptionally talented or very well connected.

[The Cat]

Off subject, but the Lasorda and Sinatra were brought together with two of my friends and Skinny D’Amato’s son in-law Bobby P.

[bert]

I've seen different versions of what happened in the Jerothe and DeSimone feud rearding a shooting, one story is Jerothe shot DeSimone when DeSimone came to his door, the other is DeSimone shot him.

[queensnyer]

I've seen different versions of what happened in the Jerothe and DeSimone feud rearding a shooting, one story is Jerothe shot DeSimone when DeSimone came to his door, the other is DeSimone shot him.

as far as I know and I don't...jerothe was gunning for DeSimone over DeSimone raping jerothe friend/girl. DeSimone got word and struck first. shooting jerothe as he came to open his door

[Peppermint]

I could make the argument that John F. Kennedy, was the most powerful non-Italian associate in the mob, ever. His father was a boot-legger during the time of probation, and supplied many mobbed up speakeasies with booze, and his father’s mob debt followed their family for multiple generations, and I am sure to some degree it still does today.

The Kennedy’s both Jackie and John, were frequent visitors at my great grandfather’s night club, The Peppermint Lounge, which he ran as a front for Johnny Biello and the Genovese family. They were such avid regulars, than upon moving into the White House, Jackie arranged to have a Peppermint Lounge sign displayed on the White House interior walls. Some say it was the Genovese family, perhaps even the Outfit, although I suspect it was the Genovese family considered he would often attend one of their establishments. That used their influence, and pull to get him elected but obviously that has never been proven.

There are multiple accounts of Kennedy and the CIA contracting the Mafia in the midst of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, to assassinate Castro. A simple Google search will show you tons of articles, documentation, and books all about this.

Also, JFK and Frank Sinatra were swing partners who would take turns having sex with Marilyn Monroe after hopping from mob bar to mob bar. Anyway...

[queensnyer]

I could make the argument that John F. Kennedy, was the most powerful non-Italian associate in the mob, ever. His father was a boot-legger during the time of probation, and supplied many mobbed up speakeasies with booze, and his father’s mob debt followed their family for multiple generations, and I am sure to some degree it still does today.

The Kennedy’s both Jackie and John, were frequent visitors at my great grandfather’s night club, The Peppermint Lounge, which he ran as a front for Johnny Biello and the Genovese family. They were such avid regulars, than upon moving into the White House, Jackie arranged to have a Peppermint Lounge sign displayed on the White House interior walls. Some say it was the Genovese family, perhaps even the Outfit, although I suspect it was the Genovese family considered he would often attend one of their establishments. That used their influence, and pull to get him elected but obviously that has never been proven.

There are multiple accounts of Kennedy and the CIA contracting the Mafia in the midst of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, to assassinate Castro. A simple Google search will show you tons of articles, documentation, and books all about this.

Also, JFK and Frank Sinatra were swing partners who would take turns having sex with Marilyn Monroe after hopping from mob bar to mob bar. Anyway...

ive heard that before...its very interesting,,, definitely wouldn't go on today. not smart or powerful enough, and also completely different world than those times

[BarrettM]

MANY in the Outfit and in the Midwest. Hugh McIntosh was probably as powerful as a soldier. Had the Gallos won the second war, there would have been way more high level non-Italians, because Joey Gallo was directly quoted saying he didn't care about ethnicity and would have happily formed a crime family with all ethnicities. Obviously, we know what happened to him, and those plans were cut short.

Hugh McIntosh and Joe Watts are the only two I can think of in New York that come close to the rank of soldier. Zef Mustafa was more of a high ranking associate in a single crew. Additionally, Jewish, Irish associates tended to be attached to a single money making scheme rather than having the full trust of the family. But I would love to hear of more.

The Outfit is different. Pretty sure Les Kruse had as much say as a caporegime but I'm not the expert.

[bert]

I've seen different versions of what happened in the Jerothe and DeSimone feud rearding a shooting, one story is Jerothe shot DeSimone when DeSimone came to his door, the other is DeSimone shot him.

as far as I know and I don't...jerothe was gunning for DeSimone over DeSimone raping jerothe friend/girl. DeSimone got word and struck first. shooting jerothe as he came to open his door

I always seen it was over a sister of girlfriend dispute, no rape. i guess these stories change and grow as the years pass. I was just trying to get a definite source on who approached who and which one (If either) was shot. There would have had to be a hospital report for a gunshot, they don't have their own doctors like in the movies. The one I see the most is DeSimone going to the door, it opens and he is shot, door closes he staggers away. I don't know if that is the correct version.

[queensnyer]

I guess the only two who really know are dead....

[Super]

eddie boyle for the gambinos?

[Peppermint]

I could make the argument that John F. Kennedy, was the most powerful non-Italian associate in the mob, ever. His father was a boot-legger during the time of probation, and supplied many mobbed up speakeasies with booze, and his father’s mob debt followed their family for multiple generations, and I am sure to some degree it still does today.

The Kennedy’s both Jackie and John, were frequent visitors at my great grandfather’s night club, The Peppermint Lounge, which he ran as a front for Johnny Biello and the Genovese family. They were such avid regulars, than upon moving into the White House, Jackie arranged to have a Peppermint Lounge sign displayed on the White House interior walls. Some say it was the Genovese family, perhaps even the Outfit, although I suspect it was the Genovese family considered he would often attend one of their establishments. That used their influence, and pull to get him elected but obviously that has never been proven.

There are multiple accounts of Kennedy and the CIA contracting the Mafia in the midst of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, to assassinate Castro. A simple Google search will show you tons of articles, documentation, and books all about this.

Also, JFK and Frank Sinatra were swing partners who would take turns having sex with Marilyn Monroe after hopping from mob bar to mob bar. Anyway...

ive heard that before...its very interesting,,, definitely wouldn't go on today. not smart or powerful enough, and also completely different world than those times

Yeah definitely a thing of the past, you’ll never see another President elected with sponsorship from the mob ever again, that’s for sure.

Apparently they supplied the gangsters they contracted with all kinds of crazy gadgets, and training. Really makes you wonder who actually was responsible for killing Kennedy. Could have been Lee Harvey, or the CIA, or maybe it was the mob. I mean after all they did basically render two made hitmen into trained assassins, they were specifically being trained to take out the leader of another country, so why couldn’t that training apply to assassinating Kennedy?

Just food for thought, don’t forget, his father’s mob debt followed that family for generations. They may have even been responsible for assassinating his brother Bobby too. Too bad my great grandfather isn’t still living, he probably knew a thing or two about this during his time running the Peppermint. I hope I can make it to my Aunt’s still this summer, so I can get access to the photo of him with Jackie. They all knew each other personally.

[Pogo The Clown]

Apparently they supplied the gangsters they contracted with all kinds of crazy gadgets, and training. Really makes you wonder who actually was responsible for killing Kennedy. Could have been Lee Harvey, or the CIA, or maybe it was the mob. I mean after all they did basically render two made hitmen into trained assassins, they were specifically being trained to take out the leader of another country, so why couldn’t that training apply to assassinating Kennedy?

Could the mob change the parade route? Or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Get the FBl, the CIA and the Dallas Police to mess up the investigation? Get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Wreck the autopsy? Influence the national media to go to sleep? Since when has the mob used anything but .38's for hits up close? The mob wouldn't have the guts or the power for something of this magnitude. Assassins need payrolls, schedules, times, orders. This was a military-style ambush. A coup d'état with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.


Pogo

[Lefty_Ruggiero]

Apparently they supplied the gangsters they contracted with all kinds of crazy gadgets, and training. Really makes you wonder who actually was responsible for killing Kennedy. Could have been Lee Harvey, or the CIA, or maybe it was the mob. I mean after all they did basically render two made hitmen into trained assassins, they were specifically being trained to take out the leader of another country, so why couldn’t that training apply to assassinating Kennedy?

Could the mob change the parade route? Or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Get the FBl, the CIA and the Dallas Police to mess up the investigation? Get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Wreck the autopsy? Influence the national media to go to sleep? Since when has the mob used anything but .38's for hits up close? The mob wouldn't have the guts or the power for something of this magnitude. Assassins need payrolls, schedules, times, orders. This was a military-style ambush. A coup d'état with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.


Pogo

Seems like a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.