Pogo's 2020 NYC Membership Numbers

[Lupara]

Another quality thread. And I see what you did there, lol.

I like that formula too. We could use that in future debates.

[Extortion]

Hey Pogo...someone named Carmine called and hes looking for his pasta and money

[HairyKnuckles]

Has there been any information on whether shelved members are counted? For all intents and purposes they are not recognized by other mafiosi, but learning that CWs are counted I wonder if they shelved members can be replaced?

No information what i know of but i cant imagine shelved members can be replaced.

[roydemeo]

In the The Changing Face of ORGANIZED CRIME IN NEW JERSEY – A Status Report(May 2004) State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation

Is write:

Despite the assaults by law enforcement and the apparent slowdown in membership recruitment, law enforcement authorities estimate the group still consists of from 110 to 140 members, with approximately 50 members active in New Jersey. The organization has at least 1,100 associates engaged in criminal activity primarily in New York, where the group’s hierarchy is located.

Ok the report is 16 y old and neve been 50 made men active in nj but to pass to 110 to 70 made men in 16 y seems strange to me.

[Wiseguy]

In the The Changing Face of ORGANIZED CRIME IN NEW JERSEY – A Status Report(May 2004) State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation

Is write:

Despite the assaults by law enforcement and the apparent slowdown in membership recruitment, law enforcement authorities estimate the group still consists of from 110 to 140 members, with approximately 50 members active in New Jersey. The organization has at least 1,100 associates engaged in criminal activity primarily in New York, where the group’s hierarchy is located.

Ok the report is 16 y old and neve been 50 made men active in nj but to pass to 110 to 70 made men in 16 y seems strange to me.

As was explained in the other thread, it's probable the 50 figure referred to members and associates. And the 110-140 estimate in that report was a larger outlier compared to more recent figures for the Luccheses.

[Super]

Has there been any information on whether shelved members are counted? For all intents and purposes they are not recognized by other mafiosi, but learning that CWs are counted I wonder if they shelved members can be replaced?

No information what i know of but i cant imagine shelved members can be replaced.

I agree hairy cos how many members have been shelved and later on able to return to the family when a new boss takes over or other circumstances change.

[HairyKnuckles]

Has there been any information on whether shelved members are counted? For all intents and purposes they are not recognized by other mafiosi, but learning that CWs are counted I wonder if they shelved members can be replaced?

No information what i know of but i cant imagine shelved members can be replaced.

I agree hairy cos how many members have been shelved and later on able to return to the family when a new boss takes over or other circumstances change.

Right.

[B.]

Shelved members are members and can be reinstated. No living member can be replaced, CW / shelved / otherwise. Members murdered by the organization cannot be replaced -- that slot is in theory closed forever. There is one instance reported by LCNBios where a member who was murdered by neighborhood punks without permission was in fact replaced, so it seems exceptions are made for those situations.

What would be interesting is to know if the death of a CW has ever been included on a proposed / deceased member list circulated between families. Not only would it be embarrassing, but it would be a bad omen for the proposed member who is replacing the dead CW. Of course, members have replaced deceased CIs without anyone knowing it.