"Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
His convo with Gyp in MF is very interesting. a lot of inner politics. vito coming home etc. He seems to be very much in the know
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
cheech, do you have a link to
those MF pages? I would like
to re-read them. Thanks, SP
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
Good point, re: Gerardo. I've seen some info about Gerardo attending meetings that were seemingly only attended by made members before 1976 but there is no doubt he was already important so it's hard to say what his membership status was based on one ID and circumstantial evidence.Eld wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:33 amI was aware of Gerardo being ID as a member in 1960s, but MF docs seem to only have one source confirming it so I speculated Gerardo might be like Aniello Migliore whom JD:s research showed probably was made in the early 80s and not in the 1950s as previously thought. But as you say it could very well mean promotion and not induction.B. wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:05 pm
Not sure the year he was inducted, but Gerardo was identified as a made member by the 1960s, which would mean he was inducted in the 1950s, though not sure how definitive that is. I'm not sure when he became the acting captain, though sometimes these guys say "made" to mean promotion to captain / administration, not just induction, so the reference to Gerardo being "made" in those excerpts may not necessarily mean induction. If that's the case, he seems to be saying that Boiardo initially tried to make his son acting captain but the administration knocked it down and Andy Gerardo was put in as acting captain instead. I'd be surprised if Tony Boiardo was physically capable of being in consideration for acting captain by the mid-late 1970s. He had been active running the crew in the 1960s but his health had severely declined and he was periodically bed-ridden beginning in the early 1970s.
I guess Anthony Russo is one of those cases were we have to take what he says with a grain of salt. He liked to talk and shows up on all kinds of bugs and wiretaps just babbling on.
Russo had a reputation for babbling but it does stand out that some of his comments over the years are corroborated by others. Phil Lombardo as boss, the Genovese having a 300 member cap, Bompensiero being an informant among them.
Last edited by B. on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
That Benny Squint line is a real gem. Anyone got a link to the transcript of the wiretap?
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4268&p=100551#p100551SILENT PARTNERZ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:50 amcheech, do you have a link to
those MF pages? I would like
to re-read them. Thanks, SP
Salude!
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
On page 19 of that transcript they discuss the murder of Anthony's brother Ralph Russo in Pittsburgh. Says they told John Russo they tried to save him (Ralph) and that Ralph was with Moe Dalitz in Pittsburgh.
Two pages later Russo says they (Boiardos) are trying to set "Joey Casey" (Juliano) up to be hit, which we know ended up happening. They say that Juliano was by this time close to Joe Zicarelli. I don't think Juliano was ever made, so curious if he was an associate of the Bonannos after Boiardo.
On page 22 they talk about Willie Moretti confronting Boiardo about having killed so many of his own men, telling Boiardo he might as well gather the rest of his men together and kill them. Keep in mind this is a few years before Boiardo killed even more of his long-time crew members in the early 1970s. They discuss Boiardo killing 5 men at one point but it's not clear who they were. They mention some early names, some of which phonetically match a couple of early Boiardo associates (pre-Genovese family) who were killed and a few pages earlier discussed the murder of Billy Cardinale, a Boiardo soldier killed in the 1950s.
On page 25 you can see Russo use the phrase "making him" to refer to Angelo Bruno wanting to make Tony Caponigro a capodecina. Given that it was also Russo later talking about Gerardo, it lends itself to the idea that he was referring to Gerardo's promotion to capodecina then as well.
On page 27 they refer to Paul Ricca still being the Chicago boss "behind the scenes".
On page 30 they talk about Nick Delmore trying to contact Russo frequently because they both lived in Long Branch. DeCarlo says "everyone else made up with" Delmore and "made him the boss again." This fits with an FBI report that says Delmore had been the boss before Phil Amari, as well as boss after.
Two pages later Russo says they (Boiardos) are trying to set "Joey Casey" (Juliano) up to be hit, which we know ended up happening. They say that Juliano was by this time close to Joe Zicarelli. I don't think Juliano was ever made, so curious if he was an associate of the Bonannos after Boiardo.
On page 22 they talk about Willie Moretti confronting Boiardo about having killed so many of his own men, telling Boiardo he might as well gather the rest of his men together and kill them. Keep in mind this is a few years before Boiardo killed even more of his long-time crew members in the early 1970s. They discuss Boiardo killing 5 men at one point but it's not clear who they were. They mention some early names, some of which phonetically match a couple of early Boiardo associates (pre-Genovese family) who were killed and a few pages earlier discussed the murder of Billy Cardinale, a Boiardo soldier killed in the 1950s.
On page 25 you can see Russo use the phrase "making him" to refer to Angelo Bruno wanting to make Tony Caponigro a capodecina. Given that it was also Russo later talking about Gerardo, it lends itself to the idea that he was referring to Gerardo's promotion to capodecina then as well.
On page 27 they refer to Paul Ricca still being the Chicago boss "behind the scenes".
On page 30 they talk about Nick Delmore trying to contact Russo frequently because they both lived in Long Branch. DeCarlo says "everyone else made up with" Delmore and "made him the boss again." This fits with an FBI report that says Delmore had been the boss before Phil Amari, as well as boss after.
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
youre the bestB. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:52 pm On page 19 of that transcript they discuss the murder of Anthony's brother Ralph Russo in Pittsburgh. Says they told John Russo they tried to save him (Ralph) and that Ralph was with Moe Dalitz in Pittsburgh.
Two pages later Russo says they (Boiardos) are trying to set "Joey Casey" (Juliano) up to be hit, which we know ended up happening. They say that Juliano was by this time close to Joe Zicarelli. I don't think Juliano was ever made, so curious if he was an associate of the Bonannos after Boiardo.
On page 22 they talk about Willie Moretti confronting Boiardo about having killed so many of his own men, telling Boiardo he might as well gather the rest of his men together and kill them. Keep in mind this is a few years before Boiardo killed even more of his long-time crew members in the early 1970s. They discuss Boiardo killing 5 men at one point but it's not clear who they were. They mention some early names, some of which phonetically match a couple of early Boiardo associates (pre-Genovese family) who were killed and a few pages earlier discussed the murder of Billy Cardinale, a Boiardo soldier killed in the 1950s.
On page 25 you can see Russo use the phrase "making him" to refer to Angelo Bruno wanting to make Tony Caponigro a capodecina. Given that it was also Russo later talking about Gerardo, it lends itself to the idea that he was referring to Gerardo's promotion to capodecina then as well.
On page 27 they refer to Paul Ricca still being the Chicago boss "behind the scenes".
On page 30 they talk about Nick Delmore trying to contact Russo frequently because they both lived in Long Branch. DeCarlo says "everyone else made up with" Delmore and "made him the boss again." This fits with an FBI report that says Delmore had been the boss before Phil Amari, as well as boss after.
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
B. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:52 pm On page 30 they talk about Nick Delmore trying to contact Russo frequently because they both lived in Long Branch. DeCarlo says "everyone else made up with" Delmore and "made him the boss again." This fits with an FBI report that says Delmore had been the boss before Phil Amari, as well as boss after.
Do you happen to have the years of Delmore's first reign as Boss? I'm drawing a blank. Thanks.
Pogo
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
Do you know what the "siji" they refer to in the transcript is?B. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:52 pm On page 19 of that transcript they discuss the murder of Anthony's brother Ralph Russo in Pittsburgh. Says they told John Russo they tried to save him (Ralph) and that Ralph was with Moe Dalitz in Pittsburgh.
Two pages later Russo says they (Boiardos) are trying to set "Joey Casey" (Juliano) up to be hit, which we know ended up happening. They say that Juliano was by this time close to Joe Zicarelli. I don't think Juliano was ever made, so curious if he was an associate of the Bonannos after Boiardo.
On page 22 they talk about Willie Moretti confronting Boiardo about having killed so many of his own men, telling Boiardo he might as well gather the rest of his men together and kill them. Keep in mind this is a few years before Boiardo killed even more of his long-time crew members in the early 1970s. They discuss Boiardo killing 5 men at one point but it's not clear who they were. They mention some early names, some of which phonetically match a couple of early Boiardo associates (pre-Genovese family) who were killed and a few pages earlier discussed the murder of Billy Cardinale, a Boiardo soldier killed in the 1950s.
On page 25 you can see Russo use the phrase "making him" to refer to Angelo Bruno wanting to make Tony Caponigro a capodecina. Given that it was also Russo later talking about Gerardo, it lends itself to the idea that he was referring to Gerardo's promotion to capodecina then as well.
On page 27 they refer to Paul Ricca still being the Chicago boss "behind the scenes".
On page 30 they talk about Nick Delmore trying to contact Russo frequently because they both lived in Long Branch. DeCarlo says "everyone else made up with" Delmore and "made him the boss again." This fits with an FBI report that says Delmore had been the boss before Phil Amari, as well as boss after.
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
Going back to Boiardo, we can look at who he had conflicts with in the late 1920s and early 1930s to try and see the bigger picture of the Newark mafia and his relationship to it...
Reported conflicts with:
- Stefano Badami (boss of Newark and/or DeCavalcante family; possibly future Lucchese member)
- Nick Delmore (Future DeCavalcante boss)
- Salvatore Lombardino, John Misuraca, and the Pizzolato brothers (Likely Newark family members; future Profaci & Lucchese leaders)
- Accardi brothers (Likely Newark family members; future Lucchese leader(s))
- Willie Moretti (Genovese/Masseria leader)
- Longie Zwillman (Jewish bootlegging/gang leader, ally of most of the above mafiosi)
It's reported that Boiardo's biggest rival, Longie Zwillman, was working with most of the above Sicilians, meaning Zwillman was an associate or at least an ally of the Newark mafia. Gerry Catena was also associated early on with Nick Delmore and other reports indicate he may have been an associate of the Newark mafia. Catena himself was said to work closely with Zwillman.
Two main thoughts:
1) Boiardo wasn't in conflict with Zwillman and a bunch of separate Sicilian groups, but these "skirmishes" were likely a larger ongoing conflict with the Newark mafia as a whole and then the Genovese/Masseria Jersey group under Moretti. Hard to know if the DeCavalcantes were separate back then, but if there were multiple Sicilian families at odds with Boiardo, it's likely they were in alliance given that they were mafia groups and Boiardo was not.
2) When Boiardo went to prison in the early 1930s, the men running his gang were said to have made peace with Longie Zwillman. Given Zwillman's alliance with the mafia, this points to Boiardo's gang falling in line or otherwise making peace with the Newark mafia group(s) while he was in prison. When Boiardo was released, he had three leaders of his own gang shot (two dying) and one of them, Gyp DeCarlo, split off from Boiardo. Given that the Boiardo gang would end up being a crew of the Genovese family, it seems likely to me that the Boiardo gang may have become Genovese associates while he was in prison. DeCarlo would end up being made in the Genovese family, it's possible his "split" from Boiardo was actually him staying associated with the Genovese group. In the DeCarlo/Anthony Russo conversation where Russo talks about his brother Ralph (who was one of the murdered Boiardo gang leaders after his release) going to Pittsburgh with Moe Dalitz and being killed on Boiardo's orders, he mentions Pittsburgh's ties to Vito Genovese immediately afterward. This could be an indication that Ralph Russo's presence in Pittsburgh was connected to Genovese, who would later be close to Anthony Russo himself.
3) The question would be when Boiardo himself aligned himself with the Genovese family. We can be sure though that sometime between the mid-1930s and 1944 (when he was made) he fell in line, though clearly he remained a powerful force in his own right. If my theory is true that his gang fell in line with the mafia while he was in prison, it seems likely they were with the Genovese family and not the Newark mafia family. Boiardo's own induction into the Genovese opposed to another family is pretty easy to accept without even knowing the specifics. Consider the following:
A) Boiardo was a Neapolitan. Most Neapolitans, especially those who had achieved their own underworld significance, overwhelmingly joined the Masseria/Genovese family. Also Calabrians, but other families recruited more Calabresi than Neapolitans compared to the Genovese and the Genovese were possibly the only group to put Neapolitans in powerful positions early on.
B) Boiardo may have had ties to the Camorra according to one report. This fits with Vito Genovese, Rocco Pellegrino, Al Capone and likely other ranking Genovese members of his era.
C) Boiardo was raised in Chicago, which had strong connections to Masseria/Genovese and though he says he first become involved in bootlegging in 1925, his earlier criminal record and underworld acumen point to him likely being involved in crime from an earlier age, meaning he may have been associated with criminal groups in Chicago.
D) He was believed to have connections to Al Capone during prohibition. During the period Al Capone was a Masseria capodecina, he was said to have had some kind of interest in Boiardo/New Jersey activities, sending a cousin to mediate the dispute between Zwillman and Boiardo to no avail.
E) The last conflict prior to Boiardo going to prison in the early 1930s looks to have been with Willie Moretti. These kinds of conflicts often aren't about completely eliminating the opposition, but incorporating them. While it may have taken Boiardo longer to accept this than the rest of his gang, it would have been more logical for Boiardo to join Moretti than the Sicilian-dominated group(s) in Newark.
F) During the period Boiardo seems to have fallen in line with the Genovese between the mid-1930s and 1944, much of the violence and warfare that had plagued the mafia over the previous couple of decades had settled down to a minimum, their membership was large, and bootlegging money was being invested in a large number of rackets. It seems likely that the groups were too strong and cohesive for Boiardo to keeping fighting. Most of his conflicts with the mafia seem to have happened when the mafia was fighting among its own.
Not as cohesive as I'd like, but hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to get at with these theories. Informed speculation, as is often the case with this stuff....
Reported conflicts with:
- Stefano Badami (boss of Newark and/or DeCavalcante family; possibly future Lucchese member)
- Nick Delmore (Future DeCavalcante boss)
- Salvatore Lombardino, John Misuraca, and the Pizzolato brothers (Likely Newark family members; future Profaci & Lucchese leaders)
- Accardi brothers (Likely Newark family members; future Lucchese leader(s))
- Willie Moretti (Genovese/Masseria leader)
- Longie Zwillman (Jewish bootlegging/gang leader, ally of most of the above mafiosi)
It's reported that Boiardo's biggest rival, Longie Zwillman, was working with most of the above Sicilians, meaning Zwillman was an associate or at least an ally of the Newark mafia. Gerry Catena was also associated early on with Nick Delmore and other reports indicate he may have been an associate of the Newark mafia. Catena himself was said to work closely with Zwillman.
Two main thoughts:
1) Boiardo wasn't in conflict with Zwillman and a bunch of separate Sicilian groups, but these "skirmishes" were likely a larger ongoing conflict with the Newark mafia as a whole and then the Genovese/Masseria Jersey group under Moretti. Hard to know if the DeCavalcantes were separate back then, but if there were multiple Sicilian families at odds with Boiardo, it's likely they were in alliance given that they were mafia groups and Boiardo was not.
2) When Boiardo went to prison in the early 1930s, the men running his gang were said to have made peace with Longie Zwillman. Given Zwillman's alliance with the mafia, this points to Boiardo's gang falling in line or otherwise making peace with the Newark mafia group(s) while he was in prison. When Boiardo was released, he had three leaders of his own gang shot (two dying) and one of them, Gyp DeCarlo, split off from Boiardo. Given that the Boiardo gang would end up being a crew of the Genovese family, it seems likely to me that the Boiardo gang may have become Genovese associates while he was in prison. DeCarlo would end up being made in the Genovese family, it's possible his "split" from Boiardo was actually him staying associated with the Genovese group. In the DeCarlo/Anthony Russo conversation where Russo talks about his brother Ralph (who was one of the murdered Boiardo gang leaders after his release) going to Pittsburgh with Moe Dalitz and being killed on Boiardo's orders, he mentions Pittsburgh's ties to Vito Genovese immediately afterward. This could be an indication that Ralph Russo's presence in Pittsburgh was connected to Genovese, who would later be close to Anthony Russo himself.
3) The question would be when Boiardo himself aligned himself with the Genovese family. We can be sure though that sometime between the mid-1930s and 1944 (when he was made) he fell in line, though clearly he remained a powerful force in his own right. If my theory is true that his gang fell in line with the mafia while he was in prison, it seems likely they were with the Genovese family and not the Newark mafia family. Boiardo's own induction into the Genovese opposed to another family is pretty easy to accept without even knowing the specifics. Consider the following:
A) Boiardo was a Neapolitan. Most Neapolitans, especially those who had achieved their own underworld significance, overwhelmingly joined the Masseria/Genovese family. Also Calabrians, but other families recruited more Calabresi than Neapolitans compared to the Genovese and the Genovese were possibly the only group to put Neapolitans in powerful positions early on.
B) Boiardo may have had ties to the Camorra according to one report. This fits with Vito Genovese, Rocco Pellegrino, Al Capone and likely other ranking Genovese members of his era.
C) Boiardo was raised in Chicago, which had strong connections to Masseria/Genovese and though he says he first become involved in bootlegging in 1925, his earlier criminal record and underworld acumen point to him likely being involved in crime from an earlier age, meaning he may have been associated with criminal groups in Chicago.
D) He was believed to have connections to Al Capone during prohibition. During the period Al Capone was a Masseria capodecina, he was said to have had some kind of interest in Boiardo/New Jersey activities, sending a cousin to mediate the dispute between Zwillman and Boiardo to no avail.
E) The last conflict prior to Boiardo going to prison in the early 1930s looks to have been with Willie Moretti. These kinds of conflicts often aren't about completely eliminating the opposition, but incorporating them. While it may have taken Boiardo longer to accept this than the rest of his gang, it would have been more logical for Boiardo to join Moretti than the Sicilian-dominated group(s) in Newark.
F) During the period Boiardo seems to have fallen in line with the Genovese between the mid-1930s and 1944, much of the violence and warfare that had plagued the mafia over the previous couple of decades had settled down to a minimum, their membership was large, and bootlegging money was being invested in a large number of rackets. It seems likely that the groups were too strong and cohesive for Boiardo to keeping fighting. Most of his conflicts with the mafia seem to have happened when the mafia was fighting among its own.
Not as cohesive as I'd like, but hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to get at with these theories. Informed speculation, as is often the case with this stuff....
Last edited by B. on Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
"Sidgie" or "sidge" is a term for Sicilians. I believe they are incorrect about Catena and possibly Eboli, not sure their heritage honestly, but they are correct about many of the Commission members. Later one of them corrects himself about Catena being a "sidgie."
We don't know anything. This is about the most we've got at this point and it's hard to say if it's even correct, or we're interpreting it correctly.Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:53 pmB. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:52 pm On page 30 they talk about Nick Delmore trying to contact Russo frequently because they both lived in Long Branch. DeCarlo says "everyone else made up with" Delmore and "made him the boss again." This fits with an FBI report that says Delmore had been the boss before Phil Amari, as well as boss after.
Do you happen to have the years of Delmore's first reign as Boss? I'm drawing a blank. Thanks.
Pogo
Delmore was called a "politician racketeer" at the time of his early 1930s arrest and he seems to have been a leader of some kind back then, but that doesn't mean he was a boss.
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
At least a few sources talk about Amari being the longtime leader, though. This info provided by Chaps sums it up pretty well:
-On October 14, 1966 NK T-4 said that in the 1930's, 1940's, and until 1958, PHIL AMARI was the "boss of the organized Italian mob which is now called LCN. AMARI"S activities centered around Elizabeth, NJ and his number on Lieutenant was NICHOLAS DELMORE. In about 1958, or maybe 1957, BIG PHIL AMARI suddenly left this country and returned to his native ITALY whereupon DEMORE replaced AMARI. When DELMORE died in early 1964, SAM DE CAVALCANTE replaced DELMORE." This same informant went on to say that he had no knowledge of Sam DeCavalcante until 1953 when all of a sudden Sam showed up in Elizabeth, NJ from Trenton and became Nick Delmore's "constant companion".
Want to add a link to a Newark mafia thread so that this one can stay focused mostly on Boiardo (of course I'm the one bringing it up):
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2987
-On October 14, 1966 NK T-4 said that in the 1930's, 1940's, and until 1958, PHIL AMARI was the "boss of the organized Italian mob which is now called LCN. AMARI"S activities centered around Elizabeth, NJ and his number on Lieutenant was NICHOLAS DELMORE. In about 1958, or maybe 1957, BIG PHIL AMARI suddenly left this country and returned to his native ITALY whereupon DEMORE replaced AMARI. When DELMORE died in early 1964, SAM DE CAVALCANTE replaced DELMORE." This same informant went on to say that he had no knowledge of Sam DeCavalcante until 1953 when all of a sudden Sam showed up in Elizabeth, NJ from Trenton and became Nick Delmore's "constant companion".
Want to add a link to a Newark mafia thread so that this one can stay focused mostly on Boiardo (of course I'm the one bringing it up):
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2987
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
Very interesting thread! Nice to see you B doing breakdowns like this.
I don´t mean to derail this thread any further. But if anybody wants to discuss Lombardo´s position within the Genovese Family we can do it one of the already existing threads. Please go on with this thread´s subkect here.
Just a small input...Funzi Tieri was the officioal boss but there were captains within the Family who were able to influence Tieri´s decisions. Lombordo was one of those. He seems to have had a very powerful standing within the Family and his input regarding decision making within the Family was highly respected. For example, it seems like he was able to convince Tieri to make Fat Tony Salerno, a member of Lombardo´s crew (and his acting captain), the underboss after Zeccardi was killed.Like others have said, very interesting to see someone from that family refer to Lombardo as the official boss in his own words
I don´t mean to derail this thread any further. But if anybody wants to discuss Lombardo´s position within the Genovese Family we can do it one of the already existing threads. Please go on with this thread´s subkect here.
There you have it, never printed before.
Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
Thanks, man. Do you have the link to your Funzi Tieri thread? That was a great thread with solid discussion. I have some bits about pieces I've come across about Tieri I might want to add there one of these days, too.HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 am I don´t mean to derail this thread any further. But if anybody wants to discuss Lombardo´s position within the Genovese Family we can do it one of the already existing threads. Please go on with this thread´s subkect here.
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Re: "Getting Pussy" -- the fall of Anthony Russo 1978-1979 (+Boiardo crew history)
I know that I discussed the Tieri/Lombardo issue with several posters in numerous of threads so finding them all by using the search function will be difficult, But I think this trhread was the one that started the discussion and it kinda splashed over in different threads.B. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:11 pmThanks, man. Do you have the link to your Funzi Tieri thread? That was a great thread with solid discussion. I have some bits about pieces I've come across about Tieri I might want to add there one of these days, too.HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 am I don´t mean to derail this thread any further. But if anybody wants to discuss Lombardo´s position within the Genovese Family we can do it one of the already existing threads. Please go on with this thread´s subkect here.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=48&hilit=hate
There you have it, never printed before.