B. wrote:Not straight off the boat by any means, but what I mean is he still had limited English, preferred to socialize with other Sicilians, and kept his Sicilian identity. Most of the younger guys in the early 90's had almost no experience with Philly's Sicilian culture from decades past, so Stanfa was this aging guy who was MIA during the 1980's when they were coming up and who they had trouble communicating with. South Philly has a very distinct culture and Stanfa never really molded to it which was probably insulting to them.
B., I'm not seeing him around Sicilians, maybe if his heart of hearts he would have preferred that but most of his foreign-born Italian associates were Calabresi, that's where the whole Cittanova discussion came in. He was older generation American Italian and his wiretaps of him talking in Italian wasn't dialect, he was talking to Adornetto who was Calabrian-American and responded in English to Stanfa talking Italian.. If Stanfa and the 2 or 3 Italian-born flunkies he had with him are zips then they were a very watered down zips.
Oh, I think we're talking about different time periods. You're right that by 1990 when he was back in the Philly fold he associated with guys who were either completely Americanized or with Calabrian/mainland roots. In the 1970's and 80's Stanfa was tied to his Sicilian paesani, which is more of what I'm talking about. In the early 1990's he was still the same old "Giovanni Stanfa", but he was forced to pull in whoever he could because his friends were long gone or not in a position to help him. His associates in the early 1990's were surely not to his preference.
I believe he first tried to get into the importing business in the late 1970's but the Bruno murder got in the way. He was legitimately employed before that as a bricklayer and he actually laid the brick to Angelo Bruno's house, which I guess could be seen as a strange coincidence given that he was the one who took Angelo Bruno home that fateful night. I strongly believe we would have seen him in the photos of the Pippo Bono wedding if the Bruno murder hadn't happened a few months earlier.
JBell -- on the audio of the wiretaps he speaks in a distinct accent and broken English. The tapes were played in court and there are also some documentaries that play brief clips from them.
Stanfa has a slight agro Palermitan' accent but he isn't speaking in dialect. And Adornetto (Calabrese transplant) responds in perfect English. You can ask for Tag's opinion but if Stanfa was talking to me in that accent (about a different subject ) I would know he's spent some time in America.
Chris Christie wrote:Chucky, question... Chang was under Lancelotti and now he's in the admin, any ideas on Lance's status or how he felt about that?
Ciancaglini was running a book and had a presence on the street when Lancelotti was still considered a kid, so I can't imagine him feeling like he's been hopped over or anything like that.
Where does it come from about Ciancaglini being under Lancelotti? My understanding is that regardless of official titles, John Chang's release from prison afforded him more or less whatever status he wanted. If he was under Lancelotti, I'd assume it was seen as a temporary move while Ciancaglini regained his footing. That footage that Big Sausage Schratweiser took of Lancelotti and Lucibello visiting Ciancanglini at the news stand suggest that they were showing respect to him, not necessarily the other way around.
Chris Christie wrote:Stanfa has a slight agro Palermitan' accent but he isn't speaking in dialect. And Adornetto (Calabrese transplant) responds in perfect English. You can ask for Tag's opinion but if Stanfa was talking to me in that accent (about a different subject ) I would know he's spent some time in America.
What Sicilians was Stanfa with the 70's and 80's? He was caught speaking Italian with Caponigro and Sindone I believe after Bruno's murder.
There's Angelo Bruno, there's his Gambino contacts, but he wasn't - from anything I've found - hanging around in Philly with a Sicilian Zip crew.
There wasn't a zip crew associated with the Philly family. That's why I emphasize "socializing"... Stanfa socialized with other outside Sicilians and is said to have been supported by them when he came to Philly. I'm not necessarily talking about Stanfa the criminal but Stanfa the person when I say that his identity was very Sicilian even through the 80's and up to the time he became boss.
Chris Christie wrote:Chucky, question... Chang was under Lancelotti and now he's in the admin, any ideas on Lance's status or how he felt about that?
Ciancaglini was running a book and had a presence on the street when Lancelotti was still considered a kid, so I can't imagine him feeling like he's been hopped over or anything like that.
Where does it come from about Ciancaglini being under Lancelotti? My understanding is that regardless of official titles, John Chang's release from prison afforded him more or less whatever status he wanted. If he was under Lancelotti, I'd assume it was seen as a temporary move while Ciancaglini regained his footing. That footage that Big Sausage Schratweiser took of Lancelotti and Lucibello visiting Ciancanglini at the news stand suggest that they were showing respect to him, not necessarily the other way around.
True. I still remember that video- either FBI or the news- recording Lanceleotti taking his dog for a morning shit in shorts and a sweat, he turns and see's he's being recorded and just has this annoyed look like "Can't I even take my dog out for a shit?"
I don't remember where I got it from that Chang was under Lance, that could be my mistake.
I don't necessarily think lance or lucibello went to the stand "to pay respect."
Maybe they just stopped by to see a friend. It's not like they work. Who knows. Philly sure is interesting though. I've said it before. They're a mob caricature. Fascinating nonetheless.
Chang has a lil Carmine moment: 6.00 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdnco8vbwZM
"What did I just say? Didn't you jut say 'Can I ask ya" and I say no? What's so redundant about that?"
Mike Lance is a skipper, has been for a while, Licata even referred to it in the tapes. When Ciancaglini got out I don't know if he was put under anyone in particular, he did as he pleased, seems like he got put with the administration when Ligambi went down in '11.
That video of Schratweiser confronting Johnny Chang is priceless. The Philly guy's never disappoint to entertain.
DS: What was Gate doing here?
Chang: Buying cigarettes.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Pogo The Clown wrote:That video of Schratweiser confronting Johnny Chang is priceless. The Philly guy's never disappoint to entertain.
DS: What was Gate doing here?
Chang: Buying cigarettes.
Pogo
I've made fun of Schratweiser plenty over the years, but he has shown he has balls. It might just be stupidity, but you have to love it.
I'm just waiting for it to come out that George Anastasia is the consigliere of the Philly mob.
Are you kidding? When Schratweiser read that Angelina spit on the cop, he held his wife and lamented it should have been him receiving the loogie.. That could have 4 Mob Talks, a front page article and a tell all about his run in with Da Underboss... If Chang would have attacked him at the stand, Schratweiser would have probably mouthed 'thank you' to him on his back.
Chris Christie wrote:Stanfa has a slight agro Palermitan' accent but he isn't speaking in dialect. And Adornetto (Calabrese transplant) responds in perfect English. You can ask for Tag's opinion but if Stanfa was talking to me in that accent (about a different subject ) I would know he's spent some time in America.
What Sicilians was Stanfa with the 70's and 80's? He was caught speaking Italian with Caponigro and Sindone I believe after Bruno's murder.
There's Angelo Bruno, there's his Gambino contacts, but he wasn't - from anything I've found - hanging around in Philly with a Sicilian Zip crew.
There wasn't a zip crew associated with the Philly family. That's why I emphasize "socializing"... Stanfa socialized with other outside Sicilians and is said to have been supported by them when he came to Philly. I'm not necessarily talking about Stanfa the criminal but Stanfa the person when I say that his identity was very Sicilian even through the 80's and up to the time he became boss.
Agreed 100%. I wish I'd said that, lol. As much as I consider myself good at the King's English, you British will always be superior.
Chris Christie wrote:Stanfa has a slight agro Palermitan' accent but he isn't speaking in dialect. And Adornetto (Calabrese transplant) responds in perfect English. You can ask for Tag's opinion but if Stanfa was talking to me in that accent (about a different subject ) I would know he's spent some time in America.
What Sicilians was Stanfa with the 70's and 80's? He was caught speaking Italian with Caponigro and Sindone I believe after Bruno's murder.
There's Angelo Bruno, there's his Gambino contacts, but he wasn't - from anything I've found - hanging around in Philly with a Sicilian Zip crew.
There wasn't a zip crew associated with the Philly family. That's why I emphasize "socializing"... Stanfa socialized with other outside Sicilians and is said to have been supported by them when he came to Philly. I'm not necessarily talking about Stanfa the criminal but Stanfa the person when I say that his identity was very Sicilian even through the 80's and up to the time he became boss.
Agreed 100%. I wish I'd said that, lol. As much as I consider myself good at the King's English, you British will always be superior.
Wait, you think I'm British? 100% American. The only red coat you'll catch me wearing is little Red Riding Hood after I wolf out on her.
The Philly guy's never disappoint to entertain.