Info from San Jose informants 1960s

[Snakes]

These clips are from 1984 and 1997, respectively:

rockford1.jpg

rockford2.jpg

[Angelo Santino]

Rockford was definitely considered a faction of the Outfit by the FBI in the mid-eighties. What faction means in LCN/FBI-speak I do not know exactly, but will let you know if I come across anything else.

How could a seperate Family with a Boss be considered a faction of the Outfit? In Roemer's first book, which was the best one, he never mentioned such a thing. If they were a faction of the Outfit, they would be listed like a crew. Even Nick Calabrese mentioned the 6 or 7 seven different Crews and not one of them was Rockford. I don't see or understand how Rockford would be considered a faction of the Outfit. Just because they partnered with the Outfut on a couple things wouldn't make them a faction. Kansas City and Milwaukee partnered with the Outfit on a few things also. Does that mean they were factions of the Outfit? i think not.

I'd respectfully urge an air of caution in regards to Roemer's work. His claims have been shown to be exaggerated and some incorrect. His bias is shown in Spilotro's nickname coming from the hero's own labelling him as Pissant, when Ant was short for Anthony. And his infatuation for Accardo borders on the obsessive with a hint of perversion.

[cavita]

These clips are from 1984 and 1997, respectively:


rockford1.jpg
rockford2.jpg

Mine are from 1994 and 1987

[cavita]

Many of the files I have from 1983 on can't quite determine where Rockford lies in the scheme of things- the bureau, which identified Buscemi as the underboss in 1964 through 1981 now suddenly can't figure out if he is Rockford underboss, a Chicago LCN member or a Sicilan Maffia member as they put it. Numerous times in the 1990s files they describe a Sicilian mafia faction in Rockford as if the family was swallowed up by the Sicilians and then there is the above file that stated Rockford faction of Chicago. It's not black and white and that's what is frustrating in the research.

[cavita]

Many of the files I have from 1983 on can't quite determine where Rockford lies in the scheme of things- the bureau, which identified Buscemi as the underboss in 1964 through 1981 now suddenly can't figure out if he is Rockford underboss, a Chicago LCN member or a Sicilan Maffia member as they put it. Numerous times in the 1990s files they describe a Sicilian mafia faction in Rockford as if the family was swallowed up by the Sicilians and then there is the above file that stated Rockford faction of Chicago. It's not black and white and that's what is frustrating in the research.

In the middle attachment it stated that Salvatore Galluzzo was a Sicilian Mafia member, however beginning in 1981 he was identified as a Rockford Family "soldier." Again, frustrating.

@Snakes: do you have the continuation of your document that has the inclusion of all the criminal intelligence information regarding the Rockford branch including its members and associates?

[Confederate]

Many of the files I have from 1983 on can't quite determine where Rockford lies in the scheme of things- the bureau, which identified Buscemi as the underboss in 1964 through 1981 now suddenly can't figure out if he is Rockford underboss, a Chicago LCN member or a Sicilan Maffia member as they put it. Numerous times in the 1990s files they describe a Sicilian mafia faction in Rockford as if the family was swallowed up by the Sicilians and then there is the above file that stated Rockford faction of Chicago. It's not black and white and that's what is frustrating in the research.

Yes, there are conflicting reports. However the FBI had listed Rockford as one of the 24 or 26 seperate Families. Seems to me they were a seperate Family but subserviant to Chicago since they had a seperate Boss. Also, if memory serves me correctly, they were involved in the Pizza connection.

[Confederate]

Rockford was definitely considered a faction of the Outfit by the FBI in the mid-eighties. What faction means in LCN/FBI-speak I do not know exactly, but will let you know if I come across anything else.

How could a seperate Family with a Boss be considered a faction of the Outfit? In Roemer's first book, which was the best one, he never mentioned such a thing. If they were a faction of the Outfit, they would be listed like a crew. Even Nick Calabrese mentioned the 6 or 7 seven different Crews and not one of them was Rockford. I don't see or understand how Rockford would be considered a faction of the Outfit. Just because they partnered with the Outfut on a couple things wouldn't make them a faction. Kansas City and Milwaukee partnered with the Outfit on a few things also. Does that mean they were factions of the Outfit? i think not.

I'd respectfully urge an air of caution in regards to Roemer's work. His claims have been shown to be exaggerated and some incorrect. His bias is shown in Spilotro's nickname coming from the hero's own labelling him as Pissant, when Ant was short for Anthony. And his infatuation for Accardo borders on the obsessive with a hint of perversion.

Yes, you are correct about Roemer. However, the FBI had listed Rockford as one of the seperate Families in some other reports so i guess there is some vagueness about it. Also, after reading Nick Calabrese's Testimony, he did not mention Rockford as being a faction of Chicago. But who knows?

[cavita]

You know, I just noticed this and it may be a matter of semantics, but in rereading the 2005 threat assessment against Nick Calabrese it says that Frank Saladino WAS a member of the Calabrese Street Crew in the 180s and that he is CURRENTLY involved with the Rockford Family of the LCN and that information has been obtained that indicates that he is the boss of the Rockford Family.

[Snakes]

I always thought he got transferred over to Rockford.

[B.]

- One informant, a made member of Sicilian heritage in the San Jose family, tells the well-known story that the mafia originated during the French occupation of Sicily, with the Sicilian men becoming bitter toward the French for their treatment of Sicilian women. He says that Sicilians still hold a grudge against the French.

- Adding to the mafia origin story, he says that the French were "laid upon" and killed whenever they were identified by members of the mafia. He says the mafia would force people to prove they were Sicilian by pronouncing "garbanzo". If they pronounced it "chi-chi-ri", this proved they were Sicilian. If they pronounced it "qui-qui-ri", this meant they were non-Sicilian and "the appropriate action" would be taken. Note that he's not saying the mafia simply killed French soldiers, but also killed people of French heritage in Sicily. Anyone ever heard of this angle before?

I was skimming Bill Bonanno's Last Testament and he tells almost the same info as above. He specifically says they would have the French pronounce "chickpea" (garbanzo) and mentions French civilians being killed in Sicily along with soldiers. Basically the only difference is the wording, the substance of what he says is identical.

We know Bill Bonanno was an informant who had very close ties to San Jose, but I didn't get the impression the informant in my original post was Bonanno. Now I'm thinking I may have just mistaken the informant for an actual SJ member. The other possibility is that the San Jose member had heard the same origin story as Bill... given that this was a pretty close-knit group on the west coast it's possible they shared the same stories/lore, I guess.

[cavita]

I always thought he got transferred over to Rockford.

He was born and raised in Rockford, his father and brother-in-law being made members. I think he was possibly loaned out to begin with to Chicago by Buscemi

[Angelo Santino]

- One informant, a made member of Sicilian heritage in the San Jose family, tells the well-known story that the mafia originated during the French occupation of Sicily, with the Sicilian men becoming bitter toward the French for their treatment of Sicilian women. He says that Sicilians still hold a grudge against the French.

- Adding to the mafia origin story, he says that the French were "laid upon" and killed whenever they were identified by members of the mafia. He says the mafia would force people to prove they were Sicilian by pronouncing "garbanzo". If they pronounced it "chi-chi-ri", this proved they were Sicilian. If they pronounced it "qui-qui-ri", this meant they were non-Sicilian and "the appropriate action" would be taken. Note that he's not saying the mafia simply killed French soldiers, but also killed people of French heritage in Sicily. Anyone ever heard of this angle before?

I was skimming Bill Bonanno's Last Testament and he tells almost the same info as above. He specifically says they would have the French pronounce "chickpea" (garbanzo) and mentions French civilians being killed in Sicily along with soldiers. Basically the only difference is the wording, the substance of what he says is identical.

We know Bill Bonanno was an informant who had very close ties to San Jose, but I didn't get the impression the informant in my original post was Bonanno. Now I'm thinking I may have just mistaken the informant for an actual SJ member. The other possibility is that the San Jose member had heard the same origin story as Bill... given that this was a pretty close-knit group on the west coast it's possible they shared the same stories/lore, I guess.

I remember reading some things from Bill Bonanno which made me wonder if he got it from "online" or internet research. He mentions DiBella as a boss whereas his father doesn't. And he claims the Mafia was called il sistema which I've yet to encounter outside of Naples as a term.

[B.]

- One informant, a made member of Sicilian heritage in the San Jose family, tells the well-known story that the mafia originated during the French occupation of Sicily, with the Sicilian men becoming bitter toward the French for their treatment of Sicilian women. He says that Sicilians still hold a grudge against the French.

- Adding to the mafia origin story, he says that the French were "laid upon" and killed whenever they were identified by members of the mafia. He says the mafia would force people to prove they were Sicilian by pronouncing "garbanzo". If they pronounced it "chi-chi-ri", this proved they were Sicilian. If they pronounced it "qui-qui-ri", this meant they were non-Sicilian and "the appropriate action" would be taken. Note that he's not saying the mafia simply killed French soldiers, but also killed people of French heritage in Sicily. Anyone ever heard of this angle before?

I was skimming Bill Bonanno's Last Testament and he tells almost the same info as above. He specifically says they would have the French pronounce "chickpea" (garbanzo) and mentions French civilians being killed in Sicily along with soldiers. Basically the only difference is the wording, the substance of what he says is identical.

We know Bill Bonanno was an informant who had very close ties to San Jose, but I didn't get the impression the informant in my original post was Bonanno. Now I'm thinking I may have just mistaken the informant for an actual SJ member. The other possibility is that the San Jose member had heard the same origin story as Bill... given that this was a pretty close-knit group on the west coast it's possible they shared the same stories/lore, I guess.

I remember reading some things from Bill Bonanno which made me wonder if he got it from "online" or internet research. He mentions DiBella as a boss whereas his father doesn't. And he claims the Mafia was called il sistema which I've yet to encounter outside of Naples as a term.

Were the Mary Ferrell files available before Bill died in 2008? If so, he could have seen this file or he may have had access to similar files through his contacts. It's also possible like I said that he was the original informant in question given that he was an informant active in the Bay Area at the time with a brother-in-law who was a member of the SF family and other close friends of his father were in the SJ family. This would give the impression that the original informant was an SF or SJ member when it was actually Bill Bonanno.

I remember Joe Bonanno calling the mafia more of a process (or something like that), rather than an organization. Bill Bonanno presses the same thing but calls it "il sistema" like you said. It's actually embarrassing how much he riffs off of his father's language and ideas throughout his books. Most of the chapters of his last book start with a different pretentious quote from his father.

As for DiBella... where would Bill have come across that info online? I remember first reading it on the RD forum some years back when someone posted an excerpt from an FBI file that mentioned simply that Tom DiBella's father was an early boss. From there more info came out, but I'm not sure Bill Bonanno was still alive when DiBella became accepted as an early boss. He was married into the Profaci family and lived with Joe Magliocco for a time. We know one of the favorite pastimes of these guys is to sit around and talk about the past, so I have to hope he got that info from his father, Magliocco, or one of the other Profaci members/relatives he was close to. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he got some of his info online, though.

[HairyKnuckles]

"Were the Mary Ferrell files available before Bill died in 2008?"

You can see the release date of any document on MF by looking at the first page.

Bill Bonanno an informant? Why do you think that? SJ and SF had a couple of informants active in the 1960s but a poster on here, i think Ed, through investigation and research was able to pin them down. Bill Bonanno was never mentioned by Ed being an informant.

[Antiliar]

Ever read the book "Honor Thy Father" by Gay Talese? It all came from Bill Bonanno during the so-called "Banana War."