Timeline: Decline of families

[Antiliar]

Any kind of documentation that verifies that they are actually made guys and not just associates would be a good start.

[ledblimp]

OK. Where do you find this documentation? Where is the documentation providing details of Marcello's making? Any of the Marcello brothers? Carollo's? Jimmy Campo? Gagliano,Caracci,Chimento, Ranzino, the Pecararo's, the Bonura's.......any of them? I've done a fair bit of digging and have yet to find any details on anyone actually going through a ceremony of any kind.The other families around the country had a fair amount of guys that flipped to provide info to authorities. NOLA had some people that yapped to the feds confidentially and a good bit of those seemed to pass on misinformation and gossip. I suspect NOLA was more like Chicago was at one point and it was "You're with us now" and maybe a dinner out at Mosca's or Impostato's.

[Angelo Santino]

Unless we have informants or witetaps, it's gonna be somewhat difficult if not impossible in confirming who was actually a member.

And while I would normally label NO a "smaller" family that may not have always been the case. Before 1872 NO was the Mafia epicenter of the USA. That being said who knows what their peak was in terms of memberships, could have been 20 or 200 in 1940.

I should also note: in the big scheme of things it's kinda irrelevant whether these names Ledblimp posted were members or not, their not being made doesn't make them any less insignificant.

You'll have to excuse the skeptism, we're not trying to be rude or stuffy, but let's just say we've had issues in the past with individuals literally making shit up that fooled some of the experts here on occasion. Not saying you're doing that but since you're new we must be cautious. Shitty welcome but a welcome none the less. Salut.

[ledblimp]

Lol, I hear ya CC.

I agree, whether or not all these guys were actually made or not they all were working for the same thing in conjunction with each other. And I'll agree that some of those names may not have been full fledged members but as you said, without taps, informants or some other type of inside info we'll never know.

The main source I've been using for names had some mistakes but even so it's been a great starting point. Much of it I've been able to bump against other sources.Some of it has turned up blank but I leave a question mark on 'em till I can find info either way. NOLA kept things quiet as they should have and with the lack of snitches it has made digging up info difficult at times.

And just to say, I don't think of myself as any type of expert. Moved to NOLA five years ago and with the rich history here decided to go further than the usual Marcello stories. I run across info all the time that changes what I thought I knew so I'm open to any info offered.

[Angelo Santino]

Your attitude will make you a good addition here.

And believe me I sympathize. The early era just doesn't allow for as many resources to piece things together. Determine bosses have been hard enough let alone family members themselves. When faced with that I think of it as a network, branches of a tree and largely avoid identifying their status. Although to be honest I've thought of creating ny charts for the 1900's with admins and decina. Problem is it would be largely my own guesswork and theories, which while guided by a light of objectivity can be mistaken. I've been wrong countless times before.

[ledblimp]

Your attitude will make you a good addition here.

I appreciate that! Thank you.

[HairyKnuckles]

Any kind of documentation that verifies that they are actually made guys and not just associates would be a good start.

OK. Where do you find this documentation?

I think what Antiliar is asking is if they have been confirmed as made on LE charts or made members lists compiled by the FBI. Information on the NO Family is scarce, but that would be a very good start.

[ledblimp]

Any kind of documentation that verifies that they are actually made guys and not just associates would be a good start.

OK. Where do you find this documentation?

I think what Antiliar is asking is if they have been confirmed as made on LE charts or made members lists compiled by the FBI. Information on the NO Family is scarce, but that would be a very good start.

I've seen a lot of FBI files. Can't say I've done an exhaustive search but usually what I've seen attached to names is "suspected members" and "associate of". I may have seen a couple of references to being Made but honestly can't recall for sure. The problem with those files is that they input anything they heard or was told to them.It was just a catch all for any and all info. I've seen references to Jimmy Campo and Leoluca Trombaturi being the Boss in NOLA. Up until the late 50's/early 60's NOLA FBI agent Regis Kennedy insisted Marcello was just a stupid little tomato salesman. Haven't seen any local LE charts or documents but honestly, with the amount and reputation for corruption how much could you trust in anything that would exist. I am in contact with several retired NOLA cops who give me tidbits here and there and one in particular who has given me a lot of info. Sometimes little details that I've been able to bump against other info have been skewed but the meat of it checks out.

I would love to be able to point to something but as far as I can tell it just ain't there. If I've missed something I would love to see it.

[ledblimp]

Just for the record, I have asked a guy I work with, an ex-Gretna cop, if there would be any way to access old cop files. The response was it's something I shouldn't be asking about.

[Antiliar]

This is an example of an FBI document where they identified made members using confidential sources. These are not 100% accurate, but they are generally reliable: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... ,_frank%22

[ledblimp]

Yes, I use the Mary Ferrell site as well and those are what I referred to.

[ledblimp]

Your attitude will make you a good addition here.

And believe me I sympathize. The early era just doesn't allow for as many resources to piece things together. Determine bosses have been hard enough let alone family members themselves. When faced with that I think of it as a network, branches of a tree and largely avoid identifying their status. Although to be honest I've thought of creating ny charts for the 1900's with admins and decina. Problem is it would be largely my own guesswork and theories, which while guided by a light of objectivity can be mistaken. I've been wrong countless times before.

I've thought about doing one up for NOLA but it seems too impossible, at least at this point, given the uncertainty of a lot of it. Maybe at some point though. It'd be nice anyways.

[ledblimp]

This is an example of an FBI document where they identified made members using confidential sources. These are not 100% accurate, but they are generally reliable: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... ,_frank%22

Antiliar, if simply being mentioned in those files is proof that they were Made then count these as so from the list I posted.
Joe Pecararo
Frank and Sal Liberto
Tony Catalanotto
Nick Christiana
Anthony Ranzino
Vic Carona
Sam Termine
Anthony Nunzio Mustachia

I'm on limited search on there so can't do more today but almost positive I recall seeing:
Nick Bonura
Nick Graffignini
Nemo Nolte
Vince Anfara
Vince Misuraca

[Antiliar]

It's not "simply being mentioned in those files is proof," it's a specific section where the agents tried to identify members. Jimmy Hoffa is mentioned in many FBI files, but his mere mention is not take to infer that he was made. I also wouldn't call it proof, but evidence. So if the names you mentioned are specifically identified as members in the FBI files, that is evidence.

[ledblimp]

It's not "simply being mentioned in those files is proof," it's a specific section where the agents tried to identify members. Jimmy Hoffa is mentioned in many FBI files, but his mere mention is not take to infer that he was made. I also wouldn't call it proof, but evidence. So if the names you mentioned are specifically identified as members in the FBI files, that is evidence.

OK, so there's evidence that those guys were members.