Sarno Boys fight against Latin King man

[PolackTony]

To be fair, zero total have been identified in that time period. The last documented ceremony was 1988. Does that mean nobody was made since then? No. Does that mean two dozen guys were made at one time? Also no.

Pardon me if this has been beaten to death already (I can't find it in search) but how do we know that guys like Cataudella, Sarno and Vena are formally made? Or do we even really know that? Sarno would have been presumably made at some point if he was the boss, I guess, but I am not sure where/how we "know" the other two ever were.

We don’t. While I’d personally be very surprised if it were to be positively confirmed that Cataudella and Vena aren’t made, we don’t really know this for a fact. To keep things in perspective, there are only a tiny handful of guys in Chicago at this point that we know to be publicly confirmed members of the mafia: guys like Sarno, Solly D, and Rudy Fratto (of course Marcello as well, but he is in a realm of living purgatory and obviously doesn’t count). We are operating almost totally on educated guesses, at best, or speculation and rumor, otherwise, when it comes to everyone else.

Now, some of the public discussion on these things could be more or less on point, but we also might well be totally off base on some or much of it, and as these things get repeated online, again and again, as if they were *fact* we dig ourselves deeper into Chicago outfit fantasy football.

[Pogo The Clown]

Sarno and Cataudella were confirmed as members in that article about them being the top 2 Bosses of the Outfit. Also didn’t Mike Magnifichi claim that he himself was inducted in a 1995 ceremony?


Pogo

[RushStreet]

In regards to who is running what right now, I firmly believe that Bobby Dominic is way higher up on the heirarchy than most people think. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's the CAPO of Grand Ave instead of Spina. Why does everyone think Spina is CAPO? What has he done to make people think that? As far as I am concerned Dominic is a much more seasoned gangster than Chris Spina is.

[Snakes]

To be fair, zero total have been identified in that time period. The last documented ceremony was 1988. Does that mean nobody was made since then? No. Does that mean two dozen guys were made at one time? Also no.

Pardon me if this has been beaten to death already (I can't find it in search) but how do we know that guys like Cataudella, Sarno and Vena are formally made? Or do we even really know that? Sarno would have been presumably made at some point if he was the boss, I guess, but I am not sure where/how we "know" the other two ever were.

Part of it is just commen sense based on their alleged status based on available records. All three -- despite never being "confirmed" as made -- can be more than reasonably assumed to be based on existing news and records that cite federal sources which describe their authority positions. For example, one would make the assumption that Vena is made if a news source citing federal law enforcement describes him as "head" of Grand Avenue (thus came about during the Steve Mandell case).

[Kash]

If any such altercation occurred, it was the least violent incident in all of Chicagoland that weekend lol.

Sadly even if it was almost no one cares about the bloodier incidents that no doubt occurred. That's not how this all works, as I'm sure you know.

If a dozen black and Latino kids get brutally slaughtered on one of the busier weekends, no one bats an eye, but if entertaining and charismatic middle-aged Italian mafia guys have a nonlethal fistfight, it's gonna draw some interest.

No one outside of their social circles and (keeping things in perspective) a *tiny* number of people online care about some Italian mobsters getting into a minor fight in a suburban Chicagoland restaurant though. Literally, no one cares but a few people like us. Something like this certainly isn’t making headlines in Chicago.

I don't think the random gangbangers getting killed every week have any enthusiasts/hobbyists keeping tabs on their activities as individuals though. Or do they?

Not in exactly the way that we obsessively research primary source documents etc on long deceased mafiosi, etc., but there are all sorts of things online about Chicago gangs and the more recent intersections with drill rap music especially. I have met guys here in the Bronx (and not guys that have been to Chicago or have family there) who know all kinds of stuff about Chicago gangs and notorious neighborhoods etc., because they are obsessed with Chicago drill message boards etc. (e.g., r/Chiraqology on Reddit). They are the exact equivalent of guys like us who obsessively follow every little bit of news about mob guys, but there are almost certainly more of them out there.

I don’t think it’s even a question that *waaay* more people care about the murders of guys like FBG Duck and King Von than would ever know or care if someone whacked any Chicago LCN guy around today. Now those guys were more than just “random gangbangers”, but they are the more public facing and charismatic facet of the current day Chicago gang culture.

Don’t underestimate Chicago gang lore nationally. If you’re from the southeastern US and go to state prison, you’re inately in tune with Chicago street culture & that filters to the street & vice versa. The largest SCR stronghold is in MS (not northside Chicago)and their top “opps” are an all white sect of LK. Let that sink in. The 3 largest prison gangs in MS state prison are in this order: GD, SCR, & VL. Alabama is about the same.

[Ivan]

Don’t underestimate Chicago gang lore nationally. If you’re from the southeastern US and go to state prison, you’re inately in tune with Chicago street culture & that filters to the street & vice versa. The largest SCR stronghold is in MS (not northside Chicago)and their top “opps” are an all white sect of LK. Let that sink in. The 3 largest prison gangs in MS state prison are in this order: GD, SCR, & VL. Alabama is about the same.

Yeah I'm not well-versed in the gang stuff but the SCRs now have a lot of white Southerner working class type kids from what I understand, with Scotch-Irish/Borderer ancestry etc. Was reading about that the other day when I was looking into the kinds of white kids who still get involved in street gangs in the 2020s after being taken somewhat aback by the Bobby English case when I read about it here.

[PolackTony]

If any such altercation occurred, it was the least violent incident in all of Chicagoland that weekend lol.

Sadly even if it was almost no one cares about the bloodier incidents that no doubt occurred. That's not how this all works, as I'm sure you know.

If a dozen black and Latino kids get brutally slaughtered on one of the busier weekends, no one bats an eye, but if entertaining and charismatic middle-aged Italian mafia guys have a nonlethal fistfight, it's gonna draw some interest.

No one outside of their social circles and (keeping things in perspective) a *tiny* number of people online care about some Italian mobsters getting into a minor fight in a suburban Chicagoland restaurant though. Literally, no one cares but a few people like us. Something like this certainly isn’t making headlines in Chicago.

I don't think the random gangbangers getting killed every week have any enthusiasts/hobbyists keeping tabs on their activities as individuals though. Or do they?

Not in exactly the way that we obsessively research primary source documents etc on long deceased mafiosi, etc., but there are all sorts of things online about Chicago gangs and the more recent intersections with drill rap music especially. I have met guys here in the Bronx (and not guys that have been to Chicago or have family there) who know all kinds of stuff about Chicago gangs and notorious neighborhoods etc., because they are obsessed with Chicago drill message boards etc. (e.g., r/Chiraqology on Reddit). They are the exact equivalent of guys like us who obsessively follow every little bit of news about mob guys, but there are almost certainly more of them out there.

I don’t think it’s even a question that *waaay* more people care about the murders of guys like FBG Duck and King Von than would ever know or care if someone whacked any Chicago LCN guy around today. Now those guys were more than just “random gangbangers”, but they are the more public facing and charismatic facet of the current day Chicago gang culture.

Don’t underestimate Chicago gang lore nationally. If you’re from the southeastern US and go to state prison, you’re inately in tune with Chicago street culture & that filters to the street & vice versa. The largest SCR stronghold is in MS (not northside Chicago)and their top “opps” are an all white sect of LK. Let that sink in. The 3 largest prison gangs in MS state prison are in this order: GD, SCR, & VL. Alabama is about the same.

Oh yeah, I’m aware of how big the Royals became down in MS, even as they’ve declined as much they have in Chicago. I also knew a bunch of black kids from MS growing up and due to the reverse “great migration” the hood culture in places like Memphis, Jackson, etc is an extension of Chicago.

Here in NYC there are of course Latin Kings (which will never not look like cartoon gangbangers to me — a guy who grew up getting shot at by the Kings from Beach and Spaulding, Whipple and Wabansia, and Leavitt and Schiller. Like some GTA NPC version of Kings lol). There are big GD sets in Brooklyn (I’ve met some, kind of a surreal experience to hear guys from Crown Point call each other “Folks”). Once I saw a bunch of Almighty BPSN graffiti on a bus shelter in Yonkers. Another time, I saw a bunch of MLD graffiti in Aguada, PR.

So yeah, Chicago gangs have long since been exported all over the place. The recent popularity of drill rap and online message board for its fans have, however, given Chicago gangs even more notoriety for people not directly involved themselves in the actual gang subcultures.

[CabriniGreen]

If any such altercation occurred, it was the least violent incident in all of Chicagoland that weekend lol.

Sadly even if it was almost no one cares about the bloodier incidents that no doubt occurred. That's not how this all works, as I'm sure you know.

If a dozen black and Latino kids get brutally slaughtered on one of the busier weekends, no one bats an eye, but if entertaining and charismatic middle-aged Italian mafia guys have a nonlethal fistfight, it's gonna draw some interest.

No one outside of their social circles and (keeping things in perspective) a *tiny* number of people online care about some Italian mobsters getting into a minor fight in a suburban Chicagoland restaurant though. Literally, no one cares but a few people like us. Something like this certainly isn’t making headlines in Chicago.

I don't think the random gangbangers getting killed every week have any enthusiasts/hobbyists keeping tabs on their activities as individuals though. Or do they?

Not in exactly the way that we obsessively research primary source documents etc on long deceased mafiosi, etc., but there are all sorts of things online about Chicago gangs and the more recent intersections with drill rap music especially. I have met guys here in the Bronx (and not guys that have been to Chicago or have family there) who know all kinds of stuff about Chicago gangs and notorious neighborhoods etc., because they are obsessed with Chicago drill message boards etc. (e.g., r/Chiraqology on Reddit). They are the exact equivalent of guys like us who obsessively follow every little bit of news about mob guys, but there are almost certainly more of them out there.

I don’t think it’s even a question that *waaay* more people care about the murders of guys like FBG Duck and King Von than would ever know or care if someone whacked any Chicago LCN guy around today. Now those guys were more than just “random gangbangers”, but they are the more public facing and charismatic facet of the current day Chicago gang culture.

Don’t underestimate Chicago gang lore nationally. If you’re from the southeastern US and go to state prison, you’re inately in tune with Chicago street culture & that filters to the street & vice versa. The largest SCR stronghold is in MS (not northside Chicago)and their top “opps” are an all white sect of LK. Let that sink in. The 3 largest prison gangs in MS state prison are in this order: GD, SCR, & VL. Alabama is about the same.

Oh yeah, I’m aware of how big the Royals became down in MS, even as they’ve declined as much they have in Chicago. I also knew a bunch of black kids from MS growing up and due to the reverse “great migration” the hood culture in places like Memphis, Jackson, etc is an extension of Chicago.

Here in NYC there are of course Latin Kings (which will never not look like cartoon gangbangers to me — a guy who grew up getting shot at by the Kings from Beach and Spaulding, Whipple and Wabansia, and Leavitt and Schiller. Like some GTA NPC version of Kings lol). There are big GD sets in Brooklyn (I’ve met some, kind of a surreal experience to hear guys from Crown Point call each other “Folks”). Once I saw a bunch of Almighty BPSN graffiti on a bus shelter in Yonkers. Another time, I saw a bunch of MLD graffiti in Aguada, PR.

So yeah, Chicago gangs have long since been exported all over the place. The recent popularity of drill rap and online message board for its fans have, however, given Chicago gangs even more notoriety for people not directly involved themselves in the actual gang subcultures.

That's why I like you.... it's not only the heavy reaserch... you try to stay in tune....

[Kash]

Don’t underestimate Chicago gang lore nationally. If you’re from the southeastern US and go to state prison, you’re inately in tune with Chicago street culture & that filters to the street & vice versa. The largest SCR stronghold is in MS (not northside Chicago)and their top “opps” are an all white sect of LK. Let that sink in. The 3 largest prison gangs in MS state prison are in this order: GD, SCR, & VL. Alabama is about the same.

Yeah I'm not well-versed in the gang stuff but the SCRs now have a lot of white Southerner working class type kids from what I understand, with Scotch-Irish/Borderer ancestry etc. Was reading about that the other day when I was looking into the kinds of white kids who still get involved in street gangs in the 2020s after being taken somewhat aback by the Bobby English case when I read about it here.

A big part of it is because it’s an option. Up until the 90s the only real option for southern white guys as far as street affiliation was hate groups like AB and offshoots. Despite the reputation of the southern whites, 99% of young white guys who are street activity inclined have zero interest in joining a hate group. It migrated slowly at first and then the meth & pain pill trade blew it up. Before meth & opioids, white boys were a huge minority in state prisons. As meth & opioids did to the suburbs & rural areas what crack did to the hood you now had a huge white state prison population who banded together. That filtered back to the street. SCR for example started off as a few white boys who were subservient to the GDs via folk alliance to now the 2nd biggest STG group in MS state prison & by far the most organized and active group on the street. The best way I could describe it is something Gene Borrello has said in interviews when talking about Howard Beach when he says hangs couldn’t just come in and do as they wanted because they “weren’t regular whit’s people”. That’s basically white gangs in the south.

[Kash]

If any such altercation occurred, it was the least violent incident in all of Chicagoland that weekend lol.

Sadly even if it was almost no one cares about the bloodier incidents that no doubt occurred. That's not how this all works, as I'm sure you know.

If a dozen black and Latino kids get brutally slaughtered on one of the busier weekends, no one bats an eye, but if entertaining and charismatic middle-aged Italian mafia guys have a nonlethal fistfight, it's gonna draw some interest.

No one outside of their social circles and (keeping things in perspective) a *tiny* number of people online care about some Italian mobsters getting into a minor fight in a suburban Chicagoland restaurant though. Literally, no one cares but a few people like us. Something like this certainly isn’t making headlines in Chicago.

I don't think the random gangbangers getting killed every week have any enthusiasts/hobbyists keeping tabs on their activities as individuals though. Or do they?

Not in exactly the way that we obsessively research primary source documents etc on long deceased mafiosi, etc., but there are all sorts of things online about Chicago gangs and the more recent intersections with drill rap music especially. I have met guys here in the Bronx (and not guys that have been to Chicago or have family there) who know all kinds of stuff about Chicago gangs and notorious neighborhoods etc., because they are obsessed with Chicago drill message boards etc. (e.g., r/Chiraqology on Reddit). They are the exact equivalent of guys like us who obsessively follow every little bit of news about mob guys, but there are almost certainly more of them out there.

I don’t think it’s even a question that *waaay* more people care about the murders of guys like FBG Duck and King Von than would ever know or care if someone whacked any Chicago LCN guy around today. Now those guys were more than just “random gangbangers”, but they are the more public facing and charismatic facet of the current day Chicago gang culture.

Don’t underestimate Chicago gang lore nationally. If you’re from the southeastern US and go to state prison, you’re inately in tune with Chicago street culture & that filters to the street & vice versa. The largest SCR stronghold is in MS (not northside Chicago)and their top “opps” are an all white sect of LK. Let that sink in. The 3 largest prison gangs in MS state prison are in this order: GD, SCR, & VL. Alabama is about the same.

Oh yeah, I’m aware of how big the Royals became down in MS, even as they’ve declined as much they have in Chicago. I also knew a bunch of black kids from MS growing up and due to the reverse “great migration” the hood culture in places like Memphis, Jackson, etc is an extension of Chicago.

Here in NYC there are of course Latin Kings (which will never not look like cartoon gangbangers to me — a guy who grew up getting shot at by the Kings from Beach and Spaulding, Whipple and Wabansia, and Leavitt and Schiller. Like some GTA NPC version of Kings lol). There are big GD sets in Brooklyn (I’ve met some, kind of a surreal experience to hear guys from Crown Point call each other “Folks”). Once I saw a bunch of Almighty BPSN graffiti on a bus shelter in Yonkers. Another time, I saw a bunch of MLD graffiti in Aguada, PR.

So yeah, Chicago gangs have long since been exported all over the place. The recent popularity of drill rap and online message board for its fans have, however, given Chicago gangs even more notoriety for people not directly involved themselves in the actual gang subcultures.

All facts sir good post. I think what separates the Chicago orgs vs Cali orgs is laws, structure, & history. It’s bastardized 99% of the time but GD, VL, SCR law doesn’t look that different from typical fraternity rules but when applied as a criminal org for negativity. The crip & blood stuff is just glorified ignorance based on colors & violence with no real substance.