Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:41 pm
Good stuff. 1.5 years seems reasonable/fairly lenient for an operation that was taking in $161 million in bets.
Do we know who Del Guidice was most closely connected to? I had heard 26th st. in the past.
Given the scale of the operation, sure beats the kind of sentence you'd get hit with for, say, narcotics.
With Paloian's involvement, I'd assume the connections are to Cicero, though I think by this time what's left of the Chinatown crew is folded into Cicero anyway.
Del Giudice was using his elderly father and former City worker Eugene "Geno" Del Giudice as a collector/runner, so he might be a link as well. He was born to Duilio Del Giudice (Italian, probably Napolitan') and Antoinette Deddo (born in Chicago) in 1935. Geno's dad had lived in the Taylor st Patch in 1929, but by 1940 when Geno was a kid they lived on Oakley in Chicago Lawn, on the SW side. So the Del Giudices are a "Southside" family, at least (also indicated by the fact that they relocated to Orland Park later). According to the Tribune, Geno had a 1996 gambling conviction, but I don't know what the extent of this was and if he was linked to any Outfit guys. While geography isn't everything, I'd assume that these guys had some connections to the Southside crew, at least in the past.
Do you know the address in Oakley that they lived?
Yeah, in 1940, when Geno Del Giudice was 5, the family lived at 6343 S Oakley (64th St). This is technically West Englewood, not Chicago Lawn/Marquette Park.
Didn't the indictments say that Del Giudice was essentially taking over Greg Paloian's book? That would imply Cicero directly and given the amount of money he was making, I have to assume people were paying attention.
Any of you guys think that says something about the Outfit today in terms of one of their bookies making that much money and no one else touching him? I just really can't believe in this day and age someone wouldn't have moved on this guy sooner be it an east coast operation or something else - its a lot of money and it was going for some time. These gamblers betting in Chicago are betting in other cities too and I have to believe word travels around. I just wonder whether the Outfit really still has that much of a reputation on the street to keep everyone else away.
That is the largest moneymaker for the Outfit I've honestly read about over the last 20 years. These guys may be sitting in pawn shops on Roosevelt but there are still a lot of guys making serious money. You had cops celebrities and politicians in this ring. You know there are other operations out there that are keeping going and picking up all these guys - and I gotta believe they just get smarter and keep rolling.
Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:41 pm
Good stuff. 1.5 years seems reasonable/fairly lenient for an operation that was taking in $161 million in bets.
Do we know who Del Guidice was most closely connected to? I had heard 26th st. in the past.
Given the scale of the operation, sure beats the kind of sentence you'd get hit with for, say, narcotics.
With Paloian's involvement, I'd assume the connections are to Cicero, though I think by this time what's left of the Chinatown crew is folded into Cicero anyway.
Del Giudice was using his elderly father and former City worker Eugene "Geno" Del Giudice as a collector/runner, so he might be a link as well. He was born to Duilio Del Giudice (Italian, probably Napolitan') and Antoinette Deddo (born in Chicago) in 1935. Geno's dad had lived in the Taylor st Patch in 1929, but by 1940 when Geno was a kid they lived on Oakley in Chicago Lawn, on the SW side. So the Del Giudices are a "Southside" family, at least (also indicated by the fact that they relocated to Orland Park later). According to the Tribune, Geno had a 1996 gambling conviction, but I don't know what the extent of this was and if he was linked to any Outfit guys. While geography isn't everything, I'd assume that these guys had some connections to the Southside crew, at least in the past.
Do you know the address in Oakley that they lived?
Yeah, in 1940, when Geno Del Giudice was 5, the family lived at 6343 S Oakley (64th St). This is technically West Englewood, not Chicago Lawn/Marquette Park.
Didn't the indictments say that Del Giudice was essentially taking over Greg Paloian's book? That would imply Cicero directly and given the amount of money he was making, I have to assume people were paying attention.
Any of you guys think that says something about the Outfit today in terms of one of their bookies making that much money and no one else touching him? I just really can't believe in this day and age someone wouldn't have moved on this guy sooner be it an east coast operation or something else - its a lot of money and it was going for some time. These gamblers betting in Chicago are betting in other cities too and I have to believe word travels around. I just wonder whether the Outfit really still has that much of a reputation on the street to keep everyone else away.
That is the largest moneymaker for the Outfit I've honestly read about over the last 20 years. These guys may be sitting in pawn shops on Roosevelt but there are still a lot of guys making serious money. You had cops celebrities and politicians in this ring. You know there are other operations out there that are keeping going and picking up all these guys - and I gotta believe they just get smarter and keep rolling.
also unclear how the legalization of sportsbooks will wind up affecting the mob's business. A very plausible argument to be made that legalization will just wind up further growing and legitimating the market for guys working the illegal sector. Time will tell.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Not sure if this info has been discussed before on the forum. From a 1970 CI (Ricca files).
The Bennie Ponzio referred to here was Ricca's son-in-law. Alexander Benedetto Ponzio was born in Chicago in 1924 to Alessandro Ponzio (from Castrolibero, Cosenza; the Bastones and Vena family were also from Castrolibero. Though tangential to this topic, in modern times, at least, Castrolibero has been a major center of the 'Ndrangheta of Cosenza province) and Gelsomina Greco (parents from Castrolibero). In 1948, Bennie Ponzio married Ricca's daughter Marie De Lucia. I've read before that Ponzio ran a number of major Loop garages for the Outfit, but don't recall ever seeing him named as someone important in the Outfit. Here the CI stated that Ponzio was the go-between for Ricca and Accardo and was responsible for hitters who were allegedly cops. Could be that Bennie Ponzio was a sleeper and a much more important guy than we realized. Also could just be that the CI was mistaken or exaggerating. The CI also states that the Outfit was functioning as two families. Nothing else that we have suggests that anything like that was the case, of course, though I suppose it is possible that while Ricca and Accardo were functioning as interim bosses they each had an area or group/crews that they mainly dealt with, which this CI may have over-interpreted. Wondering if anyone else has come across this info and thought about Ponzio.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
I've seen it and didn't place much credence in it. I think there used to be someone on ANP who said that Ricca and Accardo had different families like this source. But if Ricca and Accardo needed a messenger to relay information to avoid talking over the phone it would have to be a made guy like Butch Blasi. Ponzio, AFAIK, wasn't made.
PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:09 am
FWIW, Maria Aiello was also called "Mary Rose". Could be that these are two different Giovanni Battista Scardinas, or that the info reported was erroneous, but the info above is for the guy who married Maria Aiello.
Now, there is a record for a Giovanni Scardina from Trabia who came to Chicago in 1904, born ~1883. This may be the John Scardina, born ~1882, who in 1920 was living at Grand Ave and Green (where Joe Morici's liquor business was located). At this time, however, this Scardina was listed as single.
This Scardina married Maria Aiello on Oct 10, 1913. The Scardina/Scardini in the papers in 1908 was married to Rose at that time.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that the guy who married Maria Aiello was the guy from Trabia born ~1882, as he was born in 1889.
If the Trabia ~1882 guy is the right Scardina, then it seems by 1920 he was no longer married. I don't have a 1910 record for him.
The guy born in 1889 married Mary Aiello. The one from Trabia seems like he could be the Black Hander from 1908 married to Rose.
PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:09 am
FWIW, Maria Aiello was also called "Mary Rose". Could be that these are two different Giovanni Battista Scardinas, or that the info reported was erroneous, but the info above is for the guy who married Maria Aiello.
Now, there is a record for a Giovanni Scardina from Trabia who came to Chicago in 1904, born ~1883. This may be the John Scardina, born ~1882, who in 1920 was living at Grand Ave and Green (where Joe Morici's liquor business was located). At this time, however, this Scardina was listed as single.
This Scardina married Maria Aiello on Oct 10, 1913. The Scardina/Scardini in the papers in 1908 was married to Rose at that time.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that the guy who married Maria Aiello was the guy from Trabia born ~1882, as he was born in 1889.
If the Trabia ~1882 guy is the right Scardina, then it seems by 1920 he was no longer married. I don't have a 1910 record for him.
The guy born in 1889 married Mary Aiello. The one from Trabia seems like he could be the Black Hander from 1908 married to Rose.
Agreed. Also interesting to note that it seems that the Trabia guy was living on the same corner where Giuseppe Morici and Pietro Misuraca were running their liquor wholesaling business.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:11 pm
I've seen it and didn't place much credence in it. I think there used to be someone on ANP who said that Ricca and Accardo had different families like this source. But if Ricca and Accardo needed a messenger to relay information to avoid talking over the phone it would have to be a made guy like Butch Blasi. Ponzio, AFAIK, wasn't made.
Never seen anything even suggesting that Ponzio was made. In other files, the FBI noted that they attempted to interview Ponzio and he politely declined. And the “two families” thing is obviously erroneous, though I think it’s possible that some capos were reporting to Ricca and others to Accardo in this period, which could’ve given the CI the impression that there were two families. Not going to take this guy’s account at face value, but Ponzio was part of Ricca’s family and could’ve been trusted to handle certain tasks, especially since he was ostensibly a legitimate businessman and presumably not known to the authorities as a criminal. I would assume that there were a couple of sleepers who went under the radar at different periods. Not saying that we should think that Ponzio was one just based on this one account, but he could’ve been a somewhat more important figure than we’ve realized. Given the intense level of LE pressure and disarray in the admin at this time, I could certainly see Ricca relying on a trusted relative for some things.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:25 pm
1970 informant (Ricca files) provides info supporting Battaglia taking over as captain of the DeGrazia crew ~1959. This fits my assumption, that when Giancana became boss, he put several of his top guys from Taylor St into positions as capos -- Daddono over the West burbs crew, Buccieri over the old Ricca/Giancana Taylor St (Cicero) crew, and Battaglia over the DeGrazia MP crew.
A lot of the info the FBI had before Joe Valachi testified is confused and contradictory. I do believe, based on other evidence, that Rocco DeGrazia once headed the Battaglia crew, but I believe he was demoted long before 1959. DeGrazia wasn't just a drug dealer, he was a drug user. Maybe his life was spared because he went back with Capone. He ended up being left with the Casa Madrid. I think this is what the CI is referring to. I think around 1959/1960 the Casa Madrid was taken away from DeGrazia and given to Battaglia directly. If I recall correctly, Pranno lost oversight of Stone Park maybe around 1963/1964. FWIW, Ted DeRose suggests that Battaglia was already a capo when Giancana was promoted: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... %20accardo
Antiliar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:11 pm
I've seen it and didn't place much credence in it. I think there used to be someone on ANP who said that Ricca and Accardo had different families like this source. But if Ricca and Accardo needed a messenger to relay information to avoid talking over the phone it would have to be a made guy like Butch Blasi. Ponzio, AFAIK, wasn't made.
Never seen anything even suggesting that Ponzio was made. In other files, the FBI noted that they attempted to interview Ponzio and he politely declined. And the “two families” thing is obviously erroneous, though I think it’s possible that some capos were reporting to Ricca and others to Accardo in this period, which could’ve given the CI the impression that there were two families. Not going to take this guy’s account at face value, but Ponzio was part of Ricca’s family and could’ve been trusted to handle certain tasks, especially since he was ostensibly a legitimate businessman and presumably not known to the authorities as a criminal. I would assume that there were a couple of sleepers who went under the radar at different periods. Not saying that we should think that Ponzio was one just based on this one account, but he could’ve been a somewhat more important figure than we’ve realized. Given the intense level of LE pressure and disarray in the admin at this time, I could certainly see Ricca relying on a trusted relative for some things.
PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:25 pm
1970 informant (Ricca files) provides info supporting Battaglia taking over as captain of the DeGrazia crew ~1959. This fits my assumption, that when Giancana became boss, he put several of his top guys from Taylor St into positions as capos -- Daddono over the West burbs crew, Buccieri over the old Ricca/Giancana Taylor St (Cicero) crew, and Battaglia over the DeGrazia MP crew.
A lot of the info the FBI had before Joe Valachi testified is confused and contradictory. I do believe, based on other evidence, that Rocco DeGrazia once headed the Battaglia crew, but I believe he was demoted long before 1959. DeGrazia wasn't just a drug dealer, he was a drug user. Maybe his life was spared because he went back with Capone. He ended up being left with the Casa Madrid. I think this is what the CI is referring to. I think around 1959/1960 the Casa Madrid was taken away from DeGrazia and given to Battaglia directly. If I recall correctly, Pranno lost oversight of Stone Park maybe around 1963/1964. FWIW, Ted DeRose suggests that Battaglia was already a capo when Giancana was promoted: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... %20accardo
One reading of this CI’s account I think could align with DeRose’s account, as the CI could be saying that prior to ‘59, Battaglia was a captain but his territory was based on the Westside. Then around ‘59, Battaglia’s crew was given control over DeGrazia’s territory and Battaglia recentered his base of operations to MP and adjacent suburbs. Many of these dynamics prior to the 1960s remain unclear to me, and I’m still not certain what the precise genealogy of the Daddono, Battaglia, and Buccieri crews were prior to those capos, though they were Taylor St guys in terms of their origins (the capos, not all of the members, of course).
Last edited by PolackTony on Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
It is hard to put the puzzle together with so many missing pieces. Like I wrote earlier, I think DeGrazia was the capo of the Battaglia crew earlier on, but there could have been others in between and prior. Frank Maritote, I believe, previously headed the Buccieri crew. I wonder if Giancana was a capo immediately previous to Buccieri or Daddono. Or maybe Leonard Caifano was a capo. Then there is the tidbit from James Fratianno who said (in so many words) that Giancana went from soldier to underboss. We know that when Giancana was the underboss he operated out of Cicero. Interestingly, ex-First War alderman Donald Parrillo wrote that when he was young Frank Rio was known as the boss of Taylor Street.
Bill Bonanno had conflicting info on Giancana in his last book. He says Giancana was Accardo's "sottocapo" who became boss when Accardo retired, but later uses him as an example of a capodecina who became boss to illustrate how it wasn't standard for an underboss to succeed a boss.
Something to consider too is it wasn't uncommon in various Families around the US for an admin member to have a decina reporting direct to him. Sources have described them as both a boss/underboss/consigliere and capodecina in some cases, indicating they were seen as holding both titles simultaneously.
B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:42 pm
Bill Bonanno had conflicting info on Giancana in his last book. He says Giancana was Accardo's "sottocapo" who became boss when Accardo retired, but later uses him as an example of a capodecina who became boss to illustrate how it wasn't standard for an underboss to succeed a boss.
Something to consider too is it wasn't uncommon in various Families around the US for an admin member to have a decina reporting direct to him. Sources have described them as both a boss/underboss/consigliere and capodecina in some cases, indicating they were seen as holding both titles simultaneously.
Are there examples of an official boss/underboss/consigliere retaking their capo title while simultaneously being in the official position? I know there’s numerous examples of an acting boss/underboss/consigliere maintaining their capo title.
I’m from MA and never was really into the outfit as much as NYC or the Patriarcas but this thread’s (and it’s offshoots) information, conversations and thorough analysis has given me such a deeper appreciation for the Outfit. So thank you Polack Tony, Antiliar, Snakes, B. as well as all of the other great posters on Chicago.
Not sure about a guy letting go of his decina to become admin then having it reassigned to him later. There are examples of an admin member having new soldiers assigned direct to him later on after promotion so doesn't seem like there'd be anything barring that from happening.
B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:42 pm
Bill Bonanno had conflicting info on Giancana in his last book. He says Giancana was Accardo's "sottocapo" who became boss when Accardo retired, but later uses him as an example of a capodecina who became boss to illustrate how it wasn't standard for an underboss to succeed a boss.
Something to consider too is it wasn't uncommon in various Families around the US for an admin member to have a decina reporting direct to him. Sources have described them as both a boss/underboss/consigliere and capodecina in some cases, indicating they were seen as holding both titles simultaneously.
In The Last Mafioso, Jimmy Fratianno and Johnny Rosselli were having a conversation and Giancana's name came up. Rosselli said that Sam was never under a skipper. He was a soldier direct to a boss like he was with Jack Dragna. He was Accardo's aide. (There are other parts of the conversation that conflict with known facts, so I'm not confident about the accuracy of the dialogue.) So assuming for sake of argument that this is correct, it could be that when Accardo was boss his underboss was Ferraro and Giancana was his top aide. There's some problems with this scenario, however. If Giancana was just an aide, why would he be operating out of Cicero with men like Leonard Caifano and possibly William Daddono? Why wouldn't he be physically with Accardo like Butch Blasi was with Giancana? (And Blasi was previously an aide to Accardo before he became Giancana's aide.) Another issue is that when Ferraro met with the Rockford leadership and his failure to timely intervene in the dispute between Marshall Caifano and Phil Alderisio can be seen as lack of experience, like someone who would have only recently been made underboss. I don't have the answers, just pointing out the possibilities.
