General Mob Questions

[Pogo The Clown]

Officially they would have been Soldiers in the Masseria family with Capone as their Capo. It wasn't until 1931 that the Capone mob absorbed the Chicago LCN family with Capone as the LCN Boss.


Pogo

[TallGuy19]

Officially they would have been Soldiers in the Masseria family with Capone as their Capo. It wasn't until 1931 that the Capone mob absorbed the Chicago LCN family with Capone as the LCN Boss.


Pogo

So would it have been an arrangement similar to that of the Genovese Springfield crew, where the captain of the crew functioned as boss of the area, and the made guys under him were more like captains?

[Pogo The Clown]

I think a more apt comparison would be the the Rizzuto Crew in Montreal. They were Bonsnno members but they ran their own grounp with little or no oversight from NY. Capone ran his own group and from the look of things did whatever he wanted in Chicago even though he was technically only a Masseria Captain from 1928-1931.


Pogo

[Ivan]

Thanks guys. I'd never even heard of Michael "Dago Mike" Carrozzo before.

[Antiliar]

Just getting around to watching Boardwalk Empire (great show). In it they have Frankie Yale killing Big Jim Colosimo. I always thought it was Capone who did that killing. Is there something indicating Yale did it or was this just something for the show? Thanks.


Pogo

I don't think the limited evidence that we have supports Yale killing Colosimo. Big Jim had a lot of enemies, so his killers may have had no connection to Torrio or Capone. I think the best answer is that we don't know and never will.

[Antiliar]

I was reading some FBI files and kept seeing “NY T-2” is this Nicola Gentile?

Depends on the document. NY T-whatever isn't a fixed code number.

[Antiliar]

Is it known what position Tomasso Petto held in the Morello family? If so how do we know?

Nope, we don't know. Our main source of information for that period is Salvatore Clemente, a counterfeiter and made member of the Morello borgata who was first arrested in New York in 1895.

[B.]

Petto was apparently from Carini, as was Laduca and some of their other close associates.

There are indications of Carinesi in the D'Aquila Family (if Fanaro was indeed a D'Aquila member and not simply an ally) but the most significant faction of Carinesi in NYC post-1920s was in the Profaci Family. However Lilo Garofalo of the Gambinos was from there too. Could indicate the guys from Carini were initially part of Lupo's Family.

I put together a long thread about the Carinesi a couple years ago:

https://theblackhand.club/forum/viewtop ... 3&p=170787

[Pogo The Clown]

Just getting around to watching Boardwalk Empire (great show). In it they have Frankie Yale killing Big Jim Colosimo. I always thought it was Capone who did that killing. Is there something indicating Yale did it or was this just something for the show? Thanks.


Pogo

I don't think the limited evidence that we have supports Yale killing Colosimo. Big Jim had a lot of enemies, so his killers may have had no connection to Torrio or Capone. I think the best answer is that we don't know and never will.

Thanks. That opens up a whole new can of worms if the order came from outside the Colosimo group. The narrative forever has been that Torrio ordered it because Big Jim was preventing them from getting into bootlegging.


Pogo

[Sullycantwell]

Is it known what position Tomasso Petto held in the Morello family? If so how do we know?

Nope, we don't know. Our main source of information for that period is Salvatore Clemente, a counterfeiter and made member of the Morello borgata who was first arrested in New York in 1895.

Thanks, I have another question. First, I really enjoyed informer 2014, but I was confused with one part. Why is it suspected Vincenzo Terranova was boss after Morello was released and not Morello? If Morello had the power to tell Loiacano to step down, wouldn’t it make sense Morello was boss until D’Aquila put the death sentence on him?

[Antiliar]

Is it known what position Tomasso Petto held in the Morello family? If so how do we know?

Nope, we don't know. Our main source of information for that period is Salvatore Clemente, a counterfeiter and made member of the Morello borgata who was first arrested in New York in 1895.

Thanks, I have another question. First, I really enjoyed informer 2014, but I was confused with one part. Why is it suspected Vincenzo Terranova was boss after Morello was released and not Morello? If Morello had the power to tell Loiacano to step down, wouldn’t it make sense Morello was boss until D’Aquila put the death sentence on him?

Loiacono didn't step down, that's why he was killed. So Morello wasn't powerful enough to give that order and have it followed. I can't rule out that Morello was not briefly the boss, but I don't see evidence for it. There is a little evidence that suggests Vincent may have been.

In other words, there's not enough evidence for me to assert that my theory is 100% true. There is enough evidence to suggest that my theory of events is the most likely scenario. In other words, I'm trying my best to follow the available evidence to point out what happened, but the reality is that the available evidence is very limited. Still, evidence comes before theory, not the other way around. Hope this answer helps.

[ChicagoOutfit]

I asked this in the TV/Movies section, but I figured I’d ask here since there’s more activity.

RE: Witness to the Mob (1998) - TV movie based on Sammy’s Underboss Book/crime life story:

One question I always had is after the DeCicco bombing, the movie shows the Gambinos killing several what is assumed to be Genovese/Lucchese members/associates, did this happen irl? I’ve never heard of any fallout from DeCicco’s death, was anyone killed in revenge?

I think the movie scene shows the Gambinos killing someone’s in a swimming pool, IIRC.

[Sullycantwell]

Is it known what position Tomasso Petto held in the Morello family? If so how do we know?

Nope, we don't know. Our main source of information for that period is Salvatore Clemente, a counterfeiter and made member of the Morello borgata who was first arrested in New York in 1895.

Thanks, I have another question. First, I really enjoyed informer 2014, but I was confused with one part. Why is it suspected Vincenzo Terranova was boss after Morello was released and not Morello? If Morello had the power to tell Loiacano to step down, wouldn’t it make sense Morello was boss until D’Aquila put the death sentence on him?

Loiacono didn't step down, that's why he was killed. So Morello wasn't powerful enough to give that order and have it followed. I can't rule out that Morello was not briefly the boss, but I don't see evidence for it. There is a little evidence that suggests Vincent may have been.

In other words, there's not enough evidence for me to assert that my theory is 100% true. There is enough evidence to suggest that my theory of events is the most likely scenario. In other words, I'm trying my best to follow the available evidence to point out what happened, but the reality is that the available evidence is very limited. Still, evidence comes before theory, not the other way around. Hope this answer helps.

It definitely helped, thanks a lot.

[Antiliar]

I asked this in the TV/Movies section, but I figured I’d ask here since there’s more activity.

RE: Witness to the Mob (1998) - TV movie based on Sammy’s Underboss Book/crime life story:

One question I always had is after the DeCicco bombing, the movie shows the Gambinos killing several what is assumed to be Genovese/Lucchese members/associates, did this happen irl? I’ve never heard of any fallout from DeCicco’s death, was anyone killed in revenge?

I think the movie scene shows the Gambinos killing someone’s in a swimming pool, IIRC.

Hollywood can't make a film without the Hollywood treatment. Maybe it was Robert DeNiro's idea since he was one of the producers and had the most experience being in mob movies.

[aleksandrored]

Guys, I was looking at the Lufthansa heist, and there's a part that talks about the "Red Baron"? what exactly would that expression be? I found some news talking about this too, what does that mean?