Montreal Mafia status - Post Rizzuto Era

[CabriniGreen]

Is it just me, or does Canada get obscenely overrated amongst the herd, simply because Italians get killed up there? From what I can gather, there is no actual “family”, correct? It’s a loosely-knit patchwork of Bonnano & Buffalo ppl scattered throughout, no?

And regarding activity in Toronto, was Detroit ever involved in affairs there, due to the close proximity?

What does overrated mean?

[Wiseguy]

Is it just me, or does Canada get obscenely overrated amongst the herd, simply because Italians get killed up there? From what I can gather, there is no actual “family”, correct? It’s a loosely-knit patchwork of Bonnano & Buffalo ppl scattered throughout, no?

And regarding activity in Toronto, was Detroit ever involved in affairs there, due to the close proximity?

Yes, they've been overrated since at least the time "The Sixth Family" came off the press.

[CabriniGreen]

Is it just me, or does Canada get obscenely overrated amongst the herd, simply because Italians get killed up there? From what I can gather, there is no actual “family”, correct? It’s a loosely-knit patchwork of Bonnano & Buffalo ppl scattered throughout, no?

And regarding activity in Toronto, was Detroit ever involved in affairs there, due to the close proximity?

Yes, they've been overrated since at least the time "The Sixth Family" came off the press.

Eeeh...fuck it I'm bored...lol I'll kick it off.... some random ass thoughts here....

First off, it's not JUST the Italians, EVERYONE gets killed up there....

The book DID tend to venture a little too far into hyperbole. The "More financially powerful than all 5 families combined..." line being the most cringe thing in the book. That particular quote definitely didn't age well.

In general they seemed to badly misread their position in the landscape of the Montreal underworld. The just seemed to put every gambling op and street crew under their umbrella, when it seems to have been more partnership type relations.

They also seemed to combine the Rizzutos and the CnC clan into one unified whole, I'm not sure that was ever the case now. They seemed to have......it's a rough debate, but I've always seen the Rizzutos as the CnC clans Montreal proxy, that usurped the Bonnanos Montreal proxy, the Cotronis. What was the relationship exactly with the Cnc clan and the Rizzutos?


The Rizzutos need either the Commision or the Cupola to be a recognized family. They DONT need either to be a viable criminal entity. They just need the members to respond to an internal hierarchy, and condition the territory to respond to their authority.


This.......SEEMS to me, to be what the core basis of a mafia group is. Establishing a power structure that exist in parallel with, acting sometimes in opposition to, or coluding with the local power apparatus for its OWN interest. The Mafia in Sicily is like Dicke describes, an instrument of local government. Outside of Sicily, to me at least, they seem to act like corrupt corporations.




When I look at the Rizzutos, I can't help of think of the Naples clans, and the Casamonicas of Rome. And also, I'm often brought back to New Bridge.

Why the Casamonicas? Because Italian law said they are a MAFIA, adjective form. Meaning the organization possesses mafia- like characteristics. They are considered a Mafia because of their extensive subjugation of the territory. ( Im borrowing this phrase from sccaguini..... he said it on the other board...)They DID NOT say it was part of the MAFIA, proper noun.
It's the exact same for the clans of Secondigliano, or Casale Di Principe.

What's even more intriguing is these clans often control territory through proxy groups. People constantly mistake these gangs for the actual clans. No one on here would take this Rizzuto allied, multi-ethnic " Federation" as an official mafia crew, but because the gangs in Italy are Italian, they get mistaken for the " Clans". When I look at the Rizzutos, to me the FAMILY is in charge, along with their nucleus of allied families from Sicily.

It's very telling that they don't do what Nick Rizzuto did in the 60s and import guys to DIRECTLY hold the street.


Where they ARE very overrated is in the money department. They just don't seem very rich. It's honestly very surprising.


Any thoughts...fire away...

[antimafia]

Is it just me, or does Canada get obscenely overrated amongst the herd, simply because Italians get killed up there? From what I can gather, there is no actual “family”, correct? It’s a loosely-knit patchwork of Bonnano & Buffalo ppl scattered throughout, no?

And regarding activity in Toronto, was Detroit ever involved in affairs there, due to the close proximity?

Yes, they've been overrated since at least the time "The Sixth Family" came off the press.

Eeeh...fuck it I'm bored...lol I'll kick it off.... some random ass thoughts here....

First off, it's not JUST the Italians, EVERYONE gets killed up there....

The book DID tend to venture a little too far into hyperbole. The "More financially powerful than all 5 families combined..." line being the most cringe thing in the book. That particular quote definitely didn't age well.

In general they seemed to badly misread their position in the landscape of the Montreal underworld. The just seemed to put every gambling op and street crew under their umbrella, when it seems to have been more partnership type relations.

They also seemed to combine the Rizzutos and the CnC clan into one unified whole, I'm not sure that was ever the case now. They seemed to have......it's a rough debate, but I've always seen the Rizzutos as the CnC clans Montreal proxy, that usurped the Bonnanos Montreal proxy, the Cotronis. What was the relationship exactly with the Cnc clan and the Rizzutos?


The Rizzutos need either the Commision or the Cupola to be a recognized family. They DONT need either to be a viable criminal entity. They just need the members to respond to an internal hierarchy, and condition the territory to respond to their authority.


This.......SEEMS to me, to be what the core basis of a mafia group is. Establishing a power structure that exist in parallel with, acting sometimes in opposition to, or coluding with the local power apparatus for its OWN interest. The Mafia in Sicily is like Dicke describes, an instrument of local government. Outside of Sicily, to me at least, they seem to act like corrupt corporations.




When I look at the Rizzutos, I can't help of think of the Naples clans, and the Casamonicas of Rome. And also, I'm often brought back to New Bridge.

Why the Casamonicas? Because Italian law said they are a MAFIA, adjective form. Meaning the organization possesses mafia- like characteristics. They are considered a Mafia because of their extensive subjugation of the territory. ( Im borrowing this phrase from sccaguini..... he said it on the other board...)They DID NOT say it was part of the MAFIA, proper noun.
It's the exact same for the clans of Secondigliano, or Casale Di Principe.

What's even more intriguing is these clans often control territory through proxy groups. People constantly mistake these gangs for the actual clans. No one on here would take this Rizzuto allied, multi-ethnic " Federation" as an official mafia crew, but because the gangs in Italy are Italian, they get mistaken for the " Clans". When I look at the Rizzutos, to me the FAMILY is in charge, along with their nucleus of allied families from Sicily.

It's very telling that they don't do what Nick Rizzuto did in the 60s and import guys to DIRECTLY hold the street.


Where they ARE very overrated is in the money department. They just don't seem very rich. It's honestly very surprising.


Any thoughts...fire away...

[Aunt+Baby]

Is it just me, or does Canada get obscenely overrated amongst the herd, simply because Italians get killed up there? From what I can gather, there is no actual “family”, correct? It’s a loosely-knit patchwork of Bonnano & Buffalo ppl scattered throughout, no?

And regarding activity in Toronto, was Detroit ever involved in affairs there, due to the close proximity?

What does overrated mean?

It means that people speak about Montreal & (to a lesser extent) Hamilton as if it were Brooklyn or Chicago during the 70s

[Wiseguy]

Is it just me, or does Canada get obscenely overrated amongst the herd, simply because Italians get killed up there? From what I can gather, there is no actual “family”, correct? It’s a loosely-knit patchwork of Bonnano & Buffalo ppl scattered throughout, no?

And regarding activity in Toronto, was Detroit ever involved in affairs there, due to the close proximity?

Yes, they've been overrated since at least the time "The Sixth Family" came off the press.

Eeeh...fuck it I'm bored...lol I'll kick it off.... some random ass thoughts here....

First off, it's not JUST the Italians, EVERYONE gets killed up there....

The book DID tend to venture a little too far into hyperbole. The "More financially powerful than all 5 families combined..." line being the most cringe thing in the book. That particular quote definitely didn't age well.

In general they seemed to badly misread their position in the landscape of the Montreal underworld. The just seemed to put every gambling op and street crew under their umbrella, when it seems to have been more partnership type relations.

They also seemed to combine the Rizzutos and the CnC clan into one unified whole, I'm not sure that was ever the case now. They seemed to have......it's a rough debate, but I've always seen the Rizzutos as the CnC clans Montreal proxy, that usurped the Bonnanos Montreal proxy, the Cotronis. What was the relationship exactly with the Cnc clan and the Rizzutos?


The Rizzutos need either the Commision or the Cupola to be a recognized family. They DONT need either to be a viable criminal entity. They just need the members to respond to an internal hierarchy, and condition the territory to respond to their authority.


This.......SEEMS to me, to be what the core basis of a mafia group is. Establishing a power structure that exist in parallel with, acting sometimes in opposition to, or coluding with the local power apparatus for its OWN interest. The Mafia in Sicily is like Dicke describes, an instrument of local government. Outside of Sicily, to me at least, they seem to act like corrupt corporations.




When I look at the Rizzutos, I can't help of think of the Naples clans, and the Casamonicas of Rome. And also, I'm often brought back to New Bridge.

Why the Casamonicas? Because Italian law said they are a MAFIA, adjective form. Meaning the organization possesses mafia- like characteristics. They are considered a Mafia because of their extensive subjugation of the territory. ( Im borrowing this phrase from sccaguini..... he said it on the other board...)They DID NOT say it was part of the MAFIA, proper noun.
It's the exact same for the clans of Secondigliano, or Casale Di Principe.

What's even more intriguing is these clans often control territory through proxy groups. People constantly mistake these gangs for the actual clans. No one on here would take this Rizzuto allied, multi-ethnic " Federation" as an official mafia crew, but because the gangs in Italy are Italian, they get mistaken for the " Clans". When I look at the Rizzutos, to me the FAMILY is in charge, along with their nucleus of allied families from Sicily.

It's very telling that they don't do what Nick Rizzuto did in the 60s and import guys to DIRECTLY hold the street.


Where they ARE very overrated is in the money department. They just don't seem very rich. It's honestly very surprising.


Any thoughts...fire away...

I do remember reading something about how the Caruana-Cuntreras were the "big money" guys and the Rizzutos got most of their money from construction. But I think the hey days of the Caruana-Cuntreras are gone too. Most of those guys are dead.

I've always thought Montreal was overrated as a whole. It's about the size of Detroit. Even the GTA is about the size of the Philadelphia metro area. And I've never believed there were hundreds of Ndrangheta members in Toronto.

[dixiemafia]

Maybe now we can say they’re small and weak since Vito died, but they had legit reasons on why they were so fantasized and blown up. Don’t forget deals like Vito being charged or whatever it was on that bridge in Sicily, the gambling and drugs he controlled. Most of your usual hoodlums are not visiting Sicily much less controlling probably the biggest project ever the country has done. Even Scoppa said they were making $25 million plus a year, and all the drugs pouring into Montreal every month. If he was small time then I’d love to see some of these heavy hitters

Then not to mention even a former NYC mafia boss gets deported there and he’s killed in less than 3 years by a non Italian gangster, even though Desjardins was not a Rizzuto then, it showed the lack of respect an American boss got when he crossed the border and went to Montreal

So to your point some can say they were a little overrated because the Canadian folks pumped them up so much for The Sixth Family, the money and fame they brought in was no joke as mentioned above.

They are dropping like flies up there from all makes and models. This is the closest shit we’ve had and will have mob wise since the 80’s in NYC, Vegas etc and we’ll never have it ever again. With Canadian laws still stuck back in time the killings will continue

[motorfab]

Speaking of the Caruana-Cuntrera clan and Gennaro Scaletta, does anyone know his place of birth (and possibly the date)? I'm looking for him and for Francesco Siracusa

[antimafia]

Speaking of the Caruana-Cuntrera clan and Gennaro Scaletta, does anyone know his place of birth (and possibly the date)? I'm looking for him and for Francesco Siracusa

Scaletta’s DOB is Feb. 22, 1938 per the first of three images I posted higher up. Let me check whether I have a specific POB.

[motorfab]

Damn, I didn't notice the insert on the Bloodlines' page.

Thanks

[Wiseguy]

Maybe now we can say they’re small and weak since Vito died, but they had legit reasons on why they were so fantasized and blown up. Don’t forget deals like Vito being charged or whatever it was on that bridge in Sicily, the gambling and drugs he controlled. Most of your usual hoodlums are not visiting Sicily much less controlling probably the biggest project ever the country has done. Even Scoppa said they were making $25 million plus a year, and all the drugs pouring into Montreal every month. If he was small time then I’d love to see some of these heavy hitters

Then not to mention even a former NYC mafia boss gets deported there and he’s killed in less than 3 years by a non Italian gangster, even though Desjardins was not a Rizzuto then, it showed the lack of respect an American boss got when he crossed the border and went to Montreal

So to your point some can say they were a little overrated because the Canadian folks pumped them up so much for The Sixth Family, the money and fame they brought in was no joke as mentioned above.

They are dropping like flies up there from all makes and models. This is the closest shit we’ve had and will have mob wise since the 80’s in NYC, Vegas etc and we’ll never have it ever again. With Canadian laws still stuck back in time the killings will continue

I'd argue that bridge, which never actually came about (although there's been new talk about it lately) was a good example of where things were overrated. From what I remember reading, there were a lot of people from the Cosa Nostra in Sicily and the Ndrangheta on the mainland that were planning to be involved in that but some have talked like Rizzuto singlehandedly financing and overseeing it all from Montreal.

[antimafia]

Behind a paywall:

GR EXCLUSIVE: Montreal Mafia Has A New No. 2 Man: Meet Rizzuto Crime Family Underboss Pete D’Adamo - The Gangster Report
https://gangsterreport.com/gr-exclusive ... te-dadamo/

Article synopsis on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mafia/s/yCla8n1cRX

[scott22]

Gotta love Reddit lol

[antimafia]

Le délateur Frédérick Silva admet avoir vengé la mort du fils du parrain de la mafia
https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/ ... par-balles

[antimafia]

Behind a paywall.

GR EXCLUSIVE: Montreal Mob-Hells Angels Holiday Season Peace Summit Ends War, Mends Fences For Further Business

https://gangsterreport.com/gr-exclusive ... -business/