Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Wiseguy]

But it is not an either or situation. I don't think Violi was lying about any of it (except exaggerating/boasting with the 30 guys comment). But what does it really mean?


We saw the same situation with Rochester in 1999. At least 20 made members still living, a Boss being promoted, an induction ceremony cought on tape, drug trafficking, contact with Bonanno and Cleveland members, etc. but now with 20 years of hindsight we see that it wasn't some big Rochester resurgence but just the usual residual activity from the last remnants of the organization. I suspect we will see the same thing with Buffalo. I mean we have haven't had a Buffalo made member indicted on the US side since 2002.


Pogo

The best way this whole thing has been framed yet.

[Angelo Santino]

But it is not an either or situation. I don't think Violi was lying about any of it (except exaggerating/boasting with the 30 guys comment). But what does it really mean?


We saw the same situation with Rochester in 1999. At least 20 made members still living, a Boss being promoted, an induction ceremony cought on tape, drug trafficking, contact with Bonanno and Cleveland members, etc. but now with 20 years of hindsight we see that it wasn't some big Rochester resurgence but just the usual residual activity from the last remnants of the organization. I suspect we will see the same thing with Buffalo. I mean we have haven't had a Buffalo made member indicted on the US side since 2002.


Pogo

I can't comment on Rochester 1999, I'm unfamiliar with that. Would you mind providing me with a link?

In re. to Buffalo, no one's arguing that there's a "major" resurgence (which in and of itself is subjective.) We're discussing what's come out from Violi and really keeping it to that. No one's speculating that Todaro Jr is on a mission to rebuild a 120 man organization with crews in Utica, Rochester, Erie and wherever else, we're speculating there's more activity in Hamilton based on the 2 cases that have arisen. No one's even speculated as to how many captains this Family has other than that only one is named.

To me, a "resurgence" would be a newly formed administration with a chain of command and recognition of mob protocol (ceremonies, contact with other LCN groups). I'd argue that Stanfa conducted a resurgence in 1991, I'd argue that Licavoli and Fratianno attempted the same things in Cleveland and Los Angeles in the late 70's and were unsuccessful. Granted each example didn't take 20 years to occur but, following the evidence and finding the same members and their descendants involved in this, has to lead us to conclude there's something to this. Todaro, Luppino, Violi are all names that have been associated with Buffalo/Ontario mafia activities for several generations, this counts for alot.

Are you asking me if I think they will last ten years? I don't know. I'm a historian not a fortune teller. But if they're up 3 years and already getting noticed that's not a very good sign. Also Todaro might be thinking twice if he is indeed in the position Violi claims he is or was in 2017. If this is true this puts him at the center of an international criminal conspiracy involved in trafficking in association with the NYC LCN. He can kiss his two fucking parlors goodbye. If the FBI were to indict Canadians for any crimes on soil, I believe they can be extradited to the US. I wonder if Violi would be more open to telling all if he was facing 50 as opposed to 5 years. He can make more history.

[Frank]

If you think Buffalo is a viable family, and I'm not saying you are right or wrong, because it seems like everyone has a different definition of what is still a viable family. You have to look first at the fact that 12 of the 13 known members are 73 years old and older. Now if you want to take Violis statements and use the # 30 plus himself and Todaro you have 32. Of the 19 unidentified members let's say only 6 are over 73, that leaves a total of 18 members 73 and older 14 under 73.

[Pogo The Clown]

I can't comment on Rochester 1999, I'm unfamiliar with that. Would you mind providing me with a link?

Here you go.


http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=secu ... ia-man.txt

Cleveland mobster Anthony Delmonti couldn't believe what he was hearing.

In the summer of 1999, he was winding down a meeting in a hotel room with Rochester, N.Y., mob boss Tommy Marotta about laundering money and moving some cocaine. Delmonti also had a line on some contraband food stamps. They were planning some golf for later . . . then Marotta became curiously quiet.

He suggested "making" Delmonti on the spot.

Delmonti was floored. Get "straightened out" right here, right now? Marotta just stared, tightening his steel-blue eyes. He was the boss, he said. He could do whatever he wanted.

There had been discussions about officially making Delmonti a member of the Mafia. He had been a good "earner" for the Rochester arm of New York City's Bonanno family. Marotta had permission from Delmonti's Cleveland mob boss to make him. But what about the ceremony? Delmonti asked. The sponsor? Burning the holy card? The speeches in Sicilian?

Marotta waved it off. He was still on probation and not supposed to associate with any of the guys. The ceremony was unnecessary. Made guy Joe T. would be the sponsor. He explained to Delmonti what being "made" entailed, its privileges and responsibilities.

This family comes first. Even before Delmonti's own family. No other member could kill him without permission from Marotta. Delmonti would turn over all his earnings to Marotta. He would be getting a share of whatever the family was bringing in. No fooling with drugs. Delmonti was never to mess with the wives or girlfriends of any other made guys. That was sacred. No made guys would ever mess with Delmonti's wife or girlfriend.

Delmonti was in shock. Marotta was a legend. An old-school wiseguy. He did nine years on a racketeering violation in 1987 and survived two different attempts on his life in 1983. He caught eight bullets from a .22 and was still walking.

And now he was officially bringing Delmonti into the family. Emotionally, Delmonti was all over the map. He was awed and humbled. It was something he never expected to happen. It was a wiseguy's dream come true.

Marotta got up from his chair and embraced Delmonti, kissing him on both cheeks. It was done. Marotta said there would be a reception later. Told him to bring his appetite. Pressed for time, Marotta said he had another appointment and left the room.

Delmonti sat dazed for a minute. He went to unlock the door that opened to the adjoining room. He paused, savoring what had just happened. He took a breath, opening the door wide.

"That's riiiiigght!" he said to the five FBI agents who were there with the video equipment. "I'm the big boss now. You saw it."

The agents cheered and high-fived Delmonti. They jokingly kissed his ring and laughed. He was already an outstanding informant. But this was unprecedented. An FBI informant being "made" by a mob boss. And it was all on tape. It was one of the undercover coups of all time. Delmonti was pumped.

[Angelo Santino]

I can't comment on Rochester 1999, I'm unfamiliar with that. Would you mind providing me with a link?

Here you go.


http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=secu ... ia-man.txt

Cleveland mobster Anthony Delmonti couldn't believe what he was hearing.

In the summer of 1999, he was winding down a meeting in a hotel room with Rochester, N.Y., mob boss Tommy Marotta about laundering money and moving some cocaine. Delmonti also had a line on some contraband food stamps. They were planning some golf for later . . . then Marotta became curiously quiet.

He suggested "making" Delmonti on the spot.

Delmonti was floored. Get "straightened out" right here, right now? Marotta just stared, tightening his steel-blue eyes. He was the boss, he said. He could do whatever he wanted.

There had been discussions about officially making Delmonti a member of the Mafia. He had been a good "earner" for the Rochester arm of New York City's Bonanno family. Marotta had permission from Delmonti's Cleveland mob boss to make him. But what about the ceremony? Delmonti asked. The sponsor? Burning the holy card? The speeches in Sicilian?

Marotta waved it off. He was still on probation and not supposed to associate with any of the guys. The ceremony was unnecessary. Made guy Joe T. would be the sponsor. He explained to Delmonti what being "made" entailed, its privileges and responsibilities.

This family comes first. Even before Delmonti's own family. No other member could kill him without permission from Marotta. Delmonti would turn over all his earnings to Marotta. He would be getting a share of whatever the family was bringing in. No fooling with drugs. Delmonti was never to mess with the wives or girlfriends of any other made guys. That was sacred. No made guys would ever mess with Delmonti's wife or girlfriend.

Delmonti was in shock. Marotta was a legend. An old-school wiseguy. He did nine years on a racketeering violation in 1987 and survived two different attempts on his life in 1983. He caught eight bullets from a .22 and was still walking.

And now he was officially bringing Delmonti into the family. Emotionally, Delmonti was all over the map. He was awed and humbled. It was something he never expected to happen. It was a wiseguy's dream come true.

Marotta got up from his chair and embraced Delmonti, kissing him on both cheeks. It was done. Marotta said there would be a reception later. Told him to bring his appetite. Pressed for time, Marotta said he had another appointment and left the room.

Delmonti sat dazed for a minute. He went to unlock the door that opened to the adjoining room. He paused, savoring what had just happened. He took a breath, opening the door wide.

"That's riiiiigght!" he said to the five FBI agents who were there with the video equipment. "I'm the big boss now. You saw it."

The agents cheered and high-fived Delmonti. They jokingly kissed his ring and laughed. He was already an outstanding informant. But this was unprecedented. An FBI informant being "made" by a mob boss. And it was all on tape. It was one of the undercover coups of all time. Delmonti was pumped.

Interesting, I don't recall that.

A few things:
1 Interesting that they called Rochester a faction of the Bonanno Family.
2 Interesting that Marotta claims it was cleared with 'his boss' in Cleveland, which judging by CL's state at the time could only be Joe Loose they are talking about.

So what became of Marotta? Doesn't sound like he lasted too long.

[Pogo The Clown]

Interesting, I don't recall that.

A few things:
1 Interesting that they called Rochester a faction of the Bonanno Family.
2 Interesting that Marotta claims it was cleared with 'his boss' in Cleveland, which judging by CL's state at the time could only be Joe Loose they are talking about.

So what became of Marotta? Doesn't sound like he lasted too long.

1. I think that was just error by the writer. Marotta's drug ring extended to NYC and was connected to Bonanno members so he probably mistook that as Marotta being with the Bonannos.

2. Yeah I believe so. Iacobacci and Delmonti were friends and Loose was tied in to some different rackets at the time. He really lucked on not getting busted himself.

3. Marotta ended up getting busted in 2000 and was released in 2011. Haven't seen anything on him since. From Wiseguy's indictment list.

In June 2000, Rochester LCN captain Thomas Marotta was indicted in the Western District of New York on charges of conspiracy, cocaine trafficking in Rochester and New York City, laundering $200,000 to $350,000 in gambling and drug profits, transporting 6 stolen vehicles from Rochester to Cleveland, and trafficking in $120,000 to $200,000 in stolen food stamps.

[Angelo Santino]

Interesting, I don't recall that.

A few things:
1 Interesting that they called Rochester a faction of the Bonanno Family.
2 Interesting that Marotta claims it was cleared with 'his boss' in Cleveland, which judging by CL's state at the time could only be Joe Loose they are talking about.

So what became of Marotta? Doesn't sound like he lasted too long.

1. I think that was just error by the writer. Marotta's drug ring extended to NYC and was connected to Bonanno members so he probably mistook that as Marotta being with the Bonannos.

2. Yeah I believe so. Iacobacci and Delmonti were friends and Loose was tied in to some different rackets at the time. He really lucked on not getting busted himself.

3. Marotta ended up getting busted in 2000 and was released in 2011. Haven't seen anything on him since. From Wiseguy's indictment list.

In June 2000, Rochester LCN captain Thomas Marotta was indicted in the Western District of New York on charges of conspiracy, cocaine trafficking in Rochester and New York City, laundering $200,000 to $350,000 in gambling and drug profits, transporting 6 stolen vehicles from Rochester to Cleveland, and trafficking in $120,000 to $200,000 in stolen food stamps.

So I'm clear Tommy Marotta was a captain/active during the A/B war? So there's continuity there even if there was a span of inactivity. If he's recognized as Boss by the Bonannos and Cleveland then he's a Boss like D'Elia was, doesn't matter what bad decisions he made in the role or his lack of a crime family. That's my opinion anyway.

Here's an exchange from the Lonardo testimony, April 15, 1988

Senator Glenn: "Do you believe the family is still operating in the Cleveland area?"
Angelo Lonardo: "The Cleveland family?"
SG: "The LCN family."
AL: There is no family there right now. It was destroyed.
SG: You mentioned that some of the younger members perhaps might come back, there was something you alluded to in the last part of your testimony, I believe. Do you feel there will be an attempt made to bring back family influence there?"
AL: Well, there is Tommy Sinito, he is in jail, Tony Liberatore is also in jail. I do not know when they will be out. It will be a long time before they will be out. There might be an attempt by them, but I doubt if they will get any okay from anybody to take over."

It appears that Joe Loose got the ok/recognition, perhaps Marotta did as well for a short period as well.

[JCB1977]

I can't comment on Rochester 1999, I'm unfamiliar with that. Would you mind providing me with a link?

Here you go.


http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=secu ... ia-man.txt

Cleveland mobster Anthony Delmonti couldn't believe what he was hearing.

In the summer of 1999, he was winding down a meeting in a hotel room with Rochester, N.Y., mob boss Tommy Marotta about laundering money and moving some cocaine. Delmonti also had a line on some contraband food stamps. They were planning some golf for later . . . then Marotta became curiously quiet.

He suggested "making" Delmonti on the spot.

Delmonti was floored. Get "straightened out" right here, right now? Marotta just stared, tightening his steel-blue eyes. He was the boss, he said. He could do whatever he wanted.

There had been discussions about officially making Delmonti a member of the Mafia. He had been a good "earner" for the Rochester arm of New York City's Bonanno family. Marotta had permission from Delmonti's Cleveland mob boss to make him. But what about the ceremony? Delmonti asked. The sponsor? Burning the holy card? The speeches in Sicilian?

Marotta waved it off. He was still on probation and not supposed to associate with any of the guys. The ceremony was unnecessary. Made guy Joe T. would be the sponsor. He explained to Delmonti what being "made" entailed, its privileges and responsibilities.

This family comes first. Even before Delmonti's own family. No other member could kill him without permission from Marotta. Delmonti would turn over all his earnings to Marotta. He would be getting a share of whatever the family was bringing in. No fooling with drugs. Delmonti was never to mess with the wives or girlfriends of any other made guys. That was sacred. No made guys would ever mess with Delmonti's wife or girlfriend.

Delmonti was in shock. Marotta was a legend. An old-school wiseguy. He did nine years on a racketeering violation in 1987 and survived two different attempts on his life in 1983. He caught eight bullets from a .22 and was still walking.

And now he was officially bringing Delmonti into the family. Emotionally, Delmonti was all over the map. He was awed and humbled. It was something he never expected to happen. It was a wiseguy's dream come true.

Marotta got up from his chair and embraced Delmonti, kissing him on both cheeks. It was done. Marotta said there would be a reception later. Told him to bring his appetite. Pressed for time, Marotta said he had another appointment and left the room.

Delmonti sat dazed for a minute. He went to unlock the door that opened to the adjoining room. He paused, savoring what had just happened. He took a breath, opening the door wide.

"That's riiiiigght!" he said to the five FBI agents who were there with the video equipment. "I'm the big boss now. You saw it."

The agents cheered and high-fived Delmonti. They jokingly kissed his ring and laughed. He was already an outstanding informant. But this was unprecedented. An FBI informant being "made" by a mob boss. And it was all on tape. It was one of the undercover coups of all time. Delmonti was pumped.

Interesting, I don't recall that.

A few things:
1 Interesting that they called Rochester a faction of the Bonanno Family.
2 Interesting that Marotta claims it was cleared with 'his boss' in Cleveland, which judging by CL's state at the time could only be Joe Loose they are talking about.

So what became of Marotta? Doesn't sound like he lasted too long.

I remember the case well. Here’s a bit more background on Delmonti.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Tr ... BiBwAAQBAJ

https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/ra ... id=1484103

[B.]

On Lennert's list of early Rochester figures, I looked up one early mafia / black hand figure and he had listed a cousin as a Gaetano Marotta. Doesn't seem coincidental given how tight-knit the Rochester group's roots are turning out to be. If there's a relation, then even Tommy Marotta's background could go back to the early Sicilian mafia "black hand" colony in Rochester. The heritage of the Rochester group is closely linked to the heritage of Buffalo/NF, which is interesting, too, as Utica doesn't share that heritage despite being another tight-knit Sicilian group that would join the larger Buffalo family.

An important detail that went along with Magaddino's comments about building his family to 125 is that he said the family had 22 members when he took over. This makes it possible that not only was Utica its own family originally, but so was Rochester, though the heritage of Rochester is much more deeply entwined with Buffalo/NF so who knows. There was clearly active and "viable" Sicilian mafia-style activity in Rochester and Utica long before Magaddino became boss and it seems unlikely that the early Buffalo family would have 22 members spread between Buffalo/NF, Ontario, Rochester, Utica, Erie, etc. The more likely explanation is that these were separate families that were brought under one banner, which would explain the jump from 22 to 125.

My biggest takeaway from this entire topic is that the Buffalo family was or is much more like the DeCavalcantes than realized. A lot of the core membership going back to the beginning come from the same villages in Caltanissetta and nearby villages in Agrigento, and much of their influence was centered around one particular union. I mean, this really describes most US families, being that most families were based around men from certain villages who found a certain industry or activity that they could center themselves around. But Buffalo is unique in that it was the largest and arguably most important non-NYC Cosa Nostra family at its peak.

If you look through mafia history past to present, it is basically a catalog of "coincidences". I don't believe these are coincidences, but the result of a very tight-knit network and structure that inevitably creates patterns we can follow. The members themselves might not even be aware of these patterns, but because they are using the same networks and structure they will become part of the pattern. With this in mind, it's pretty interesting that we have Domenico Violi's father Paolo, Canadian acting captain for a US family, meeting with the Sicilian mafioso Cuffaro from Montallegro in Canada, who is responsible for informing Violi about Sicilian mafia activities in the province of Agrigento; then 40 years later Dom Violi becomes the Canadian underboss to a US boss of Montallegro heritage who himself visited Montallegro in the last 20 or 30 years. It might not mean there was some orchestrated plan, but the mafia is filled to the brim with these kinds of "coincidences" and they often have some kind of meaning, even if that meaning is simply that the same networks are still in some degree of use.

There is a Buffalo family with a boss, underboss, and membership of some kind, as there was a century ago. Beyond that, I take an agnostic approach to what they've been up to in the past couple of decades. I'm not going to say they've been active, dormant, they pulled a resurgence, or anything. What does seem to be true, though, is the Buffalo family is still participating in the network of Cosa Nostra, which recognizes them as a family, and this network is the true currency of the mafia spanning countries, generations, and pretty much any other variable you want to throw into the mix. As long as an organization is using these networks, however big or small they are, I consider them to be part of the ongoing Cosa Nostra phenomenon.

[Lupara]

But Buffalo is unique in that it was the largest and arguably most important non-NYC Cosa Nostra family at its peak.

You'd put Buffalo at its peak above Chicago?

[scagghiuni]

You'd put Buffalo at its peak above Chicago?

i don't think so, chicago, philly, new england were probably stronger at their peak than buffalo

[maxiestern11]

You'd put Buffalo at its peak above Chicago?

i don't think so, chicago, philly, new england were probably stronger at their peak than buffalo

Not really.... remember that under Magaddino, he had a seat on the commission. In fact, he was the senior member of the commission for many years, and the most influential Castellammarese in the nation (at a time when there were many Castellammarese bosses). ...... so Buffalo had s lot of day and strength nationally!

[maxiestern11]

You'd put Buffalo at its peak above Chicago?

i don't think so, chicago, philly, new england were probably stronger at their peak than buffalo

Not really.... remember that under Magaddino, he had a seat on the commission. In fact, he was the senior member of the commission for many years, and the most influential Castellammarese in the nation (at a time when there were many Castellammarese bosses). ...... so Buffalo had s lot of day and strength nationally!

I’d say Chicago was more influential than Buffalo, but certainly not Philly or NE

[B.]

Okay, let's not even get into that shit. I was referring to Magaddino's status on the Commission and influence in national mafia politics, which was a reflection of Buffalo at the time. Buffalo was also central in US mafia politics before Magaddino took over and high-level national meetings were held there in the 1920s through the Castellammarese War. Beyond that, I absolutely will not bring a Chicago argument into this 215 page topic and I was not thinking of them or anything else beyond the point that Buffalo was a political powerhouse in the early mafia.

If you guys turn this into a Buffalo vs. Chicago argument, you will all be legally retarded in my eyes forever.

[B.]

Just a quick background breakdown for some of the groups/figures who have dominated these areas, with a general note about where it fits in the timeline:

Buffalo / NF:
- Caltanissetta province, many villages (all eras)
- Castellammare Del Golfo, Trapani (early to mid era)
- Valguarnera, Enna (Nicoletti only? early? all eras?)
- Montallegro, Agrigento (Todaros only? mid to present era)
- Calabria (small but well-connected minority, early to mid eras?)

Rochester:
- Caltanissetta province, many villages (all eras)
- Grotte, Agrigento, and surrounding villages (early to mid era)
- Valguernera, Enna (all eras)
- Reggio Calabria and mainland
- Pretty much identical to Buffalo/NF as far as early backgrounds go, but with way more of an early presence from Agrigento, particularly the villages of Grotte and Aragona which are right next to Racalmuto, where the Buffalo family's early Ontario figures came from.
- Rochester appears to have been one of the main go-betweens with Canada prior to the murder of capodecina Russolesi.

Utica:
- Palermo (early to mid era)
- Sciacca, Agrigento (early to mid era)
- Calabria (early to mid era)
- It's no surprise based on the above that Utica's early ties appear to be with the D'Aquila/Gambino family. There are few if any indications that the Utica group shares its roots with Buffalo.
- The Agrigento connection does raise some questions now that it's emerged that Rochester had a strong early presence from there.

Hamilton/Toronto:
- Racalmuto, Agrigento (early to mid era)
- Salemi, Trapani (Aguecis only? mid era)
- Reggio Calabria (all eras?)

Montreal:
- Siculiana, Agrigento (mid to present era)
- Cattolica Eraclea, Agrigento (mid to present era)
- Reggio Calabria and mainland (all eras)
- Interesting how both the Buffalo-Hamilton and Bonanno-Montreal crews had an Agrigento / Calabrian dynamic.
- Siculiana and Cattolica Eraclea are extremely close to Montallegro, where Joe Todaro's father was from and where both Joe Todaro and Todaro Jr. visited themselves.

Pittston/Scranton:
- Caltanissetta province, many villages (all eras)
- Castellammare Del Golfo (mid era)
- Very similar to Buffalo but on a smaller scale. Buffalo had a wider territory and larger membership which accounted for more diversity, but in both we see a majority faction from Caltanissetta with a powerful Castellammare minority faction. Interestingly when the Castellammaresi faded from power on a national level, their factions within Buffalo and Pittston both quickly withered away.

Chicago:
- All of the above. (forever and ever)