Present Day Chicago Outfit

[Frank]

Yes I remember reading this. CI 1 upper echelon member informing since the mid 80s. I wonder who it is. I would think it would have to be a Capo or up farther. This info won't be released till person dies.

[smoker]

First, an Outfit guy doesn't have to publically flip, take the witness stand, and then go into witness protection to give the feds info on who's made. Don't assume because only one or two made guys have flipped in Chicago that others aren't feeding info to law enforcement. It happens in all the families and there's little reason to think Chicago is an exception.

Second, by probably a combination of attrition and strategic downsizing, the Outfit has gotten leaner. That's impossible to deny and the feds have said so. Just within the last 20 years they've lost a lot of members and, even if they have still been making guys, it's unlikely they've been able to keep up with those that have passed on. The latest figures for members and associates makes the modern-day Outfit about the size of the New England or Philadelphia families. Meaning it's one of a handful of small remaining families outside New York. Another sign the Chicago mob has gotten leaner is that it's gone from 7 or 8 crews to 4.

No, but they need a reason to release it to the public, and Chicago doesn't give them many.

And of course, there have been plenty of rats in Chicago over the years. (the C1 informant was a made guy who told them about the 89 making ceremony)

[Stroccos]

Yes I remember reading this. CI 1 upper echelon member informing since the mid 80s. I wonder who it is. I would think it would have to be a Capo or up farther. This info won't be released till person dies.

the feds protect there informents even after there long dead. Unless a fbi agent leaks it to a reporter 0r someone may figure it out from there fbi file . I would set the over/under and 5 people who know who the snitch is

[gohnjotti]

Crazy how they've had a Capo or higher feeding them information since the mid-80s, and another since 1994. You'd think there'd be a whole lot more arrests if this were the case since the feds would have an easier time going in, investigating, planting bugs, etc.

[Villain]

Crazy how they've had a Capo or higher feeding them information since the mid-80s, and another since 1994. You'd think there'd be a whole lot more arrests if this were the case since the feds would have an easier time going in, investigating, planting bugs, etc.

They allegedly had a secret top echelon informant since the 1960s and during that decade the feds murdered the Outfit for real

[Frank]

Villian didn't it turn out to be Ralph Pierce?? With this current informant we're talking about it sounds fishy that nobody from the Outfit has figured it out. Wouldn't the feds have had info on the Spilotro murders and more.

[Pogo The Clown]

Crazy how they've had a Capo or higher feeding them information since the mid-80s, and another since 1994. You'd think there'd be a whole lot more arrests if this were the case since the feds would have an easier time going in, investigating, planting bugs, etc.

They allegedly had a secret top echelon informant since the 1960s and during that decade the feds murdered the Outfit for real

Yeah this idea that the Outfit is some how smarter, better run or more secretive than the other families is not justified by the facts. Through the 60s-early 90s they were busted just as much as the other families were. They were decimated by indictments during the mid 80s-early 90s period just like the East Coast families. The only reason there haven't been as many busts in the last 20 years is because the Outfit has shrunk considerably and are not as active as they use to be.


Pogo

[Snakes]

I don't think it's fair to say they aren't more secretive. We know less about their making ceremonies (time, place, who got made, what the ceremony entails, etc.) than any other family.

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah but there is a difference between us not knowing these things and LE not knowing. You can bet LE knows knows all about them just like the east coast families.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Yeah but there is a difference between us not knowing these things and LE not knowing. You can bet LE knows knows all about them just like the east coast families.


Pogo

Agree with Snakes here.

There's no reason LE would 'withhold' info with Chi town and release it regarding East Coast LCN.

We know more about East Coast 'family business' than Chicago.
That's simply because there's more known.

We commonly accept that a family like the Westside is more secretive than say the Bonanno's.
That's not up for debate.
Why is it unreasonable to throw Chicago in as one of the more secretive families?

[Snakes]

Yeah, I'd say that the structure and inner workings of both families were similarly secretive. Maybe not so much now for Chicago, but definitely in the past.

[rayray]

Well, when you think about it...they're ALL SUPPOSED to be secretive lol... It also helped that they were unique from the other traditional LCN family's and not exactly following the same protocols. But, from Capone, Nitti, Ricca, Accardo, Giancana etc etc etc...were they really that much more secretive or were they that much harder to follow up on because how the family was run by the top tiers? Cause, secretive as they might have been, I'm not sure I could say they kept a low profile.

As far as the possible informant...wouldn't you think that the informant would come from one of the more dominate crews? These informants have proven over the years they love to enrich themselves while informing...and the FBI has also proven they have no issues going along with it.

[UTC]

"But the collective evidence, not just cases but statements from the feds, really tell you all you need to know about the present day Chicago Outfit. Everything else is speculation."
Of course this is just an assumption rather than proof also. A good assumption too, but it accepts correlation as causation.
If someone really did know something about a family to the contrary, and stated it, the forum as a whole would be largely skeptical, and many would call bullshit. But in truth we wouldn't really know whether it was accurate or not.

[Pogo The Clown]

There's no reason LE would 'withhold' info with Chi town and release it regarding East Coast LCN.

We know more about East Coast 'family business' than Chicago.
That's simply because there's more known.

We commonly accept that a family like the Westside is more secretive than say the Bonanno's.
That's not up for debate.
Why is it unreasonable to throw Chicago in as one of the more secretive families?

But they aren't withholding anything. The only reason "we know more" (which is different than LE knowing) about the east coast families is because there is more activity going on on the east coast. More activity equals more indictments, more informants and more coverage which equals us (the general public) knowing more.


Back in the 60s-early 90s the Outfit was in the news and being busted just as much as the east coast families. The only reason there has been less coming out on them over the last 15-20 years is because there is less going and as a result less general coverage. Same reason we know less today about the DeCavalcantes than the Genovese family.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

There's no reason LE would 'withhold' info with Chi town and release it regarding East Coast LCN.

We know more about East Coast 'family business' than Chicago.
That's simply because there's more known.

We commonly accept that a family like the Westside is more secretive than say the Bonanno's.
That's not up for debate.
Why is it unreasonable to throw Chicago in as one of the more secretive families?

But they aren't withholding anything. The only reason "we know more" (which is different than LE knowing) about the east coast families is because there is more activity going on on the east coast. More activity equals more indictments, more informants and more coverage which equals us (the general public) knowing more.


Back in the 60s-early 90s the Outfit was in the news and being busted just as much as the east coast families. The only reason there has been less coming out on them over the last 15-20 years is because there is less going and as a result less general coverage. Same reason we know less today about the DeCavalcantes than the Genovese family.


Pogo

P-town.
I like you mate, but you missed the point.
Completely agree that we know little about Chicago today corresponding in large part to a decrease in activity.
No argument.
But historically common knowledge on Chicago rivals that of the Westside. If not more secretive.
How many ceremonies do we know of compared to EC families? How many rats? How many high end indictments?Etc etc.

It's a fair call to say historically chi town has clearly been one of the most secretive/mysterious families compared to their east coast cousins.