Chicago Outfit Soldier Sentenced

[Patrickgold]

To give an idea about the FBI's "member to associate ratio:"

A 1992 breakdown of the Melrose Park crew showed 48 members and associates of that crew, with at least 5 of them being made members (Carlisi, Marcello, Zizzo, Chiaramonti, Tornabene). That's roughly ten associates for every made member. Not to say that all of the crews had this same ratio but it provides a good sampling.

Thanks for that break down snakes. When it comes to made members, the Outfit has always had a notoriously low made member count. That especially became true when they actually started doing the induction ceremony.

[Wiseguy]

To give an idea about the FBI's "member to associate ratio:"

A 1992 breakdown of the Melrose Park crew showed 48 members and associates of that crew, with at least 5 of them being made members (Carlisi, Marcello, Zizzo, Chiaramonti, Tornabene). That's roughly ten associates for every made member. Not to say that all of the crews had this same ratio but it provides a good sampling.

While the number of associates can vary depending on the definition, why go back nearly 30 years when we have a more recent (and hence more applicable) figure from the FBI? In 2007, the feds cited 28 members and over 100 associates. This was for the Outfit in general, not just a single crew. That is roughly a ratio of 4 or 5 associates for every member.

[Snakes]

To give an idea about the FBI's "member to associate ratio:"

A 1992 breakdown of the Melrose Park crew showed 48 members and associates of that crew, with at least 5 of them being made members (Carlisi, Marcello, Zizzo, Chiaramonti, Tornabene). That's roughly ten associates for every made member. Not to say that all of the crews had this same ratio but it provides a good sampling.

While the number of associates can vary depending on the definition, why go back nearly 30 years when we have a more recent (and hence more applicable) figure from the FBI? In 2007, the feds cited 28 members and over 100 associates. This was for the Outfit in general, not just a single crew. That is roughly a ratio of 4 or 5 associates for every member.

I'm not arguing one way or the other. I just thought it was an interesting bit of info.

[Pete]

Thanks for posting the report.

At the last estimate, there are about seventy 'made' members of the Chicago Outfit.3 The term 'made' comes from La Cosa Nostra terminology and requires a blood ritual. Italian bloodlines, sponsorship and support of high-ranking members in a complicated process. These rituals are not known to exist in Chicago as they do on the East Coast, yet the term 'made' has been referred to in debriefings of federal informants

So they are using the same definition of members as everyone else. Looking at the 28 member figure from 2005 and adding in the members that died from 1998-2005 we get to a figure of about 45 members for 1997. A much more realistic number than the 70 figure from the report.


Pogo

I thought the ccc or fbi can’t recall had estimated 50 members in 97? The thing people forget is these are estimates some guys they had as made like shorty Lamantia weren’t made and guys they thought weren’t were in fact made. The did have a lot of guys die between 97-05 but to be at 28 even an estimate of 50 could have been a bit ambitious. I know someone has the list did 20 or so guys kick the bucket between that timeframe?

[Pete]

Also for whatever it’s worth wiseguy and myself in a pm went over the confirmed members list and I had less than 10 of them as still active.

[Pogo The Clown]

I thought the ccc or fbi can’t recall had estimated 50 members in 97? The thing people forget is these are estimates some guys they had as made like shorty Lamantia weren’t made and guys they thought weren’t were in fact made. The did have a lot of guys die between 97-05 but to be at 28 even an estimate of 50 could have been a bit ambitious. I know someone has the list did 20 or so guys kick the bucket between that timeframe?

I vaguely remember reading the 50 member estimate. Anyway here is my list for the members lost from 1997-2005.


Joseph “Joey Doves” Aiuppa (1997)
Donald “The Wizard of Odds” Angelini (2000)
Salvatore Bastone (1998)
Frank Buccieri (2004)
Marshall “Shoes” Caifano (2003)
Sam “Wings” Carlisi (1997)
Anthony Centracchio (2001)
Anthony "Tony the Hatch" Chiaramonti (2001) (Killed)
Dominic “Large” Cortina (1999)
James “Jim” DiForti (2000)
Ernest “Rocky” Infelise (2005)
Angelo “The Hook” LaPietra (1999)
William “Willie” Messino (2002)
John “Johnny Apes” Monteleone (2001)
Dominick “Tootsie” Palermo (2005)
Alfred “Al” Pilotto (1999)
Albert Rosetti (1999)
Roger Riccio (1998) – Made?
Albert “Chickie” Rovario (2003)
Albert “Al the Fox” Tocco (2005)

Plus Nick Calabrese who flipped.

So a loss of at least 20 or 21 members. Though I don't know if the guy's who died in 1997 like Aiuppa and Carlisi were incuded in the 1997 estimate. Same for the guy's who died in 2005 like Infelice, Tocco and Palermo being in included in the 2005 estimate.


Pogo

[Frank]

Alderman Fred Roti died 1999

[Wiseguy]

I thought the ccc or fbi can’t recall had estimated 50 members in 97? The thing people forget is these are estimates some guys they had as made like shorty Lamantia weren’t made and guys they thought weren’t were in fact made. The did have a lot of guys die between 97-05 but to be at 28 even an estimate of 50 could have been a bit ambitious. I know someone has the list did 20 or so guys kick the bucket between that timeframe?

I vaguely remember reading the 50 member estimate. Anyway here is my list for the members lost from 1997-2005.


Joseph “Joey Doves” Aiuppa (1997)
Donald “The Wizard of Odds” Angelini (2000)
Salvatore Bastone (1998)
Frank Buccieri (2004)
Marshall “Shoes” Caifano (2003)
Sam “Wings” Carlisi (1997)
Anthony Centracchio (2001)
Anthony "Tony the Hatch" Chiaramonti (2001) (Killed)
Dominic “Large” Cortina (1999)
James “Jim” DiForti (2000)
Ernest “Rocky” Infelise (2005)
Angelo “The Hook” LaPietra (1999)
William “Willie” Messino (2002)
John “Johnny Apes” Monteleone (2001)
Dominick “Tootsie” Palermo (2005)
Alfred “Al” Pilotto (1999)
Albert Rosetti (1999)
Roger Riccio (1998) – Made?
Albert “Chickie” Rovario (2003)
Albert “Al the Fox” Tocco (2005)

Plus Nick Calabrese who flipped.

So a loss of at least 20 or 21 members. Though I don't know if the guy's who died in 1997 like Aiuppa and Carlisi were incuded in the 1997 estimate. Same for the guy's who died in 2005 like Infelice, Tocco and Palermo being in included in the 2005 estimate.


Pogo

Just for the record, while Family Secrets came down in 2005, it was in 2007 that the FBI (Richard Grant) said, "We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit."

[Pogo The Clown]

Alderman Fred Roti died 1999

Was he made?

Just for the record, while Family Secrets came down in 2005, it was in 2007 that the FBI (Richard Grant) said, "We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit."

So we can add

James “Jimmy” Cozzo (2007) – Made?
Anthony "Little Tony/The Trucker" Zizzo (2006) (Killed)


Since Zizzo was only missing I don't if he was included in the estimate. So counting up all the losses a a membership of about 50 for 1997 seems accurate.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Alderman Fred Roti died 1999

Was he made?

Just for the record, while Family Secrets came down in 2005, it was in 2007 that the FBI (Richard Grant) said, "We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit."

So we can add

James “Jimmy” Cozzo (2007) – Made?
Anthony "Little Tony/The Trucker" Zizzo (2006) (Killed)


Since Zizzo was only missing I don't if he was included in the estimate. So counting up all the losses a a membership of about 50 for 1997 seems accurate.


Pogo

FWIW I was once told by someone with close contacts in LE that Jimmy Boy Cozzo was not made specifically because he was of Northern Italian ancestry. I can't substantiate this, but thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else has any further info on this.

[Villain]

Alderman Fred Roti died 1999

Was he made?

Yup, he and Marcy were both made guys

[Pogo The Clown]

Thanks. When did Marcy die?


Also has anyone been able to confirm if Bernard "Snooky" Morgano was made? If so when did he die? Thanks.


Pogo

[Villain]

Thanks. When did Marcy die?


Also has anyone been able to confirm if Bernard "Snooky" Morgano was made? If so when did he die? Thanks.


Pogo

Marcy died of a heart attack during his trial in 1993...as for Morgano, i believe that there is no question about he being made since he headed the Indiana crew after Zizzo or what was left of it...his father Gaetano aka Tommy also headed the crew during the late 50s and early 60s...the Heights mob always had a made rep in Gary or Hammond...im not sure when Snooky passed away...2010?

[Snakes]

Antilliar doesn't think Cozzo was made but he lived for another 20 years after Wemette claimed he wasn't made and was later listed as made by the feds when he was ejected from Local 786 so the possibility is there that he was made in that time.

I concur that Morgano was made. Roti was identified as made by the FBI.

This is who I have from 1997 to 2005. I added Castaldo and Nappi to the earlier list:

Aiuppa (1997)
Donald Angelini (2000)
Carmine Bastone (2002)
Salvatore Bastone (1998)
Frank "The Horse" Buccieri (2004)
Marshall "Johnny Marshall" Caifano (2003)
Carlisi (1997)
Michael Castaldo (2005)
Anthony Centracchio (2001)
Anthony "Hatch" Chiaramonti (2001) (Murdered)
Dominic "Large" Cortina (1999)
James "Poker" DiForti (2000)
Ernest Rocco "Rocky" Infelise (2005)
Angelo "The Bull/Hook" LaPietra (1999)
William "Willie" Messino (2002)
John "Johnny Apes" Monteleone (2001)
Bernard Morgano (2010)
Romeo "Romie" Nappi (2001)
Dominick Palermo (2005)
Alfred Pilotto (1999)
Fred Roti (1999)
Albert Tocco (2005)

Good call on Rossetti and probably Roviaro, they both belong on the list in the main charts page. Don't think Riccio was made; just a bookmaker.

The FBI's "28 members" quote was from September 2007 so I included anyone who was alive at that point. Re: Zizzo; they may not have removed him by that point, good catch. Some of these are from CCC records, spotty/redacted FBI records, and a mishmash of other sources so I'm not vouching 100% for the veracity of this list so if anyone has someone that would be a better fit I'm not going to contest (I know Antilliar doesn't think that some of these guys were made).

Joseph Andriacchi
Robert Bellavia
Frank Calabrese, Sr.
Bruno Caruso
Frank Caruso
Nicholas Cataudella
Salvatore Cataudella
James Cerone
Marco D'Amico
Salvatore DeLaurentis
John DiFronzo
Peter DiFronzo
Rudolph Fratto
Gary Gagliano
Joseph Grieco
Nicholas Guzzino
James Inendino
Joseph Lombardo
Rocco Lombardo
Michael Magnafichi
James Marcello
Louis Marino
John Matassa, Jr.
Lawrence Pettit
Michael Sarno
Michael Spano, Sr.
Michael Talarico
Alfonso Tornabene
Albert Vena

[funkster]

Simply because i dont want to start it's own thread and because I dont know where the hell else to put it, appears Mario Rainone has been granted his COVID release.