Los Angeles odds & ends

[B.]

There was a distinction between someone being the official Commission representative and being an aide who attended with the Commission rep. Joe Bonanno says Commission members could bring an aide with them. The aide wasn't a "low-level" member, but probably another leading figure or protege of the official Commission representative.

We also know the official Commission representative could send someone in his place if he couldn't attend. We know Joe Bonanno sent his acting boss/underboss John Morale to meet with the Commission. Curious if others did this, too.

Later the NYC families allowed anyone from their administration to attend Commission meetings, as we see Tony Salerno, Neil Dellacroce, and the acting Colombo leaders all attend the 1980s meeting even though none of them were the official boss/Commission representative. It appears other admin members may have also attended the 1960s Commission meeting with New Orleans, so there may have always been situations where multiple leaders from a family attended.

There is also a distinction between the 5 year Commission meetings and other meetings called by the Commission. The 5 year meetings were scheduled and may have been more limited in who they could include, while other meetings called by the Commission were related to circumstantial issues and could have included more people. Hard to say for sure.

Just to clarify, in the Zerilli case, Bompensiero was told Zerilli would no longer have the Commission seat and it would go to Polizzi, the new boss. If that had happened, Zerilli probably could have attended Commission meetings as an "aide".

--

We talk about the KC family here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6598

It appears they had a consiglio like the other midwest families.

[Villain]

There was a distinction between someone being the official Commission representative and being an aide who attended with the Commission rep. Joe Bonanno says Commission members could bring an aide with them. The aide wasn't a "low-level" member, but probably another leading figure or protege of the official Commission representative.

We also know the official Commission representative could send someone in his place if he couldn't attend. We know Joe Bonanno sent his acting boss/underboss John Morale to meet with the Commission. Curious if others did this, too.

Later the NYC families allowed anyone from their administration to attend Commission meetings, as we see Tony Salerno, Neil Dellacroce, and the acting Colombo leaders all attend the 1980s meeting even though none of them were the official boss/Commission representative. It appears other admin members may have also attended the 1960s Commission meeting with New Orleans, so there may have always been situations where multiple leaders from a family attended.

There is also a distinction between the 5 year Commission meetings and other meetings called by the Commission. The 5 year meetings were scheduled and may have been more limited in who they could include, while other meetings called by the Commission were related to circumstantial issues and could have included more people. Hard to say for sure.

Just to clarify, in the Zerilli case, Bompensiero was told Zerilli would no longer have the Commission seat and it would go to Polizzi, the new boss. If that had happened, Zerilli probably could have attended Commission meetings as an "aide".

--

We talk about the KC family here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6598

It appears they had a consiglio like the other midwest families.

Thanks and again good stuff. I knew that Anti said the same thing.

I might be boring with all of these questions but do you Zerilli had the power to replace the boss and to announce the new guy?

Also, its hard to label Ricca as Giancanas aide...for example, when the Bonanno problem occurred, Giancana pushed for Bonannos demise while Ricca nixed the whole deal. I think that even Bill Bonanno mentioned the situation in one of his books.

I think that Chicagos "consiglio" was "deformed" to an extent by having a top boss and also non-Italian guys....

[B.]

Thanks and again good stuff. I knew that Anti said the same thing.

I might be boring with all of these questions but do you Zerilli had the power to replace the boss and to announce the new guy?

Also, its hard to label Ricca as Giancanas aide...for example, when the Bonanno problem occurred, Giancana pushed for Bonannos demise while Ricca nixed the whole deal. I think that even Bill Bonanno mentioned the situation in one of his books.

Not sure on Zerilli. Families were supposed to hold separate elections to appoint both a new boss and consigliere, but we also know they sometimes "fixed" these elections behind the scenes. If Zerilli had actually stepped down, he likely would have had the ability to influence his replacement even if they held an election. Remember with Gotti's election, the captains met privately beforehand and were instructed to vote for Gotti beforehand. A similar situation played out with Joe Colombo. We have other examples where the previous boss appears to have influenced or even appointed his successor.

Yeah, I don't think the word "aide" is necessarily the right word because that brings to mind an assistant. A better way of thinking of it would be someone who could attend as an additional guest. I am having trouble finding the exact reference in Bonanno's book, but I remember him saying that a Commission representative could consult with this "aide" (or guest) during breaks in the meeting, so this person could be an advisor. It may be in one of Bill Bonanno's books, actually -- I'm having trouble finding it, but it's in one of Joe or Bill's books.

I did find this excerpt in Joe Bonanno's book, which you will appreciate:

As a rule, the representatives from Chicago remained aloof from Commission business except when it affected them directly. Chicago enjoyed a quasi-independent status in the politics of our world. Unlike New York City, which had five Families, Chicago had only one. That created less tension and gave the Chicago people greater scope to solve their own problems. Also, it wasn't in Chicago's interest to get mixed up in the perpetual discord in New York City, which took up much of the Commission's attention.

This is backed up by other sources, too, as you know, which shows that Commission matters were more of an annoying obligation for Chicago than a pressing concern. Still, we do know they attended the major meetings and went through the motions, even with the Colombo family conflict of the mid-late 1970s.

[Villain]

Thanks and again good stuff. I knew that Anti said the same thing.

I might be boring with all of these questions but do you Zerilli had the power to replace the boss and to announce the new guy?

Also, its hard to label Ricca as Giancanas aide...for example, when the Bonanno problem occurred, Giancana pushed for Bonannos demise while Ricca nixed the whole deal. I think that even Bill Bonanno mentioned the situation in one of his books.

Not sure on Zerilli. Families were supposed to hold separate elections to appoint both a new boss and consigliere, but we also know they sometimes "fixed" these elections behind the scenes. If Zerilli had actually stepped down, he likely would have had the ability to influence his replacement even if they held an election. Remember with Gotti's election, the captains met privately beforehand and were instructed to vote for Gotti beforehand. A similar situation played out with Joe Colombo. We have other examples where the previous boss appears to have influenced or even appointed his successor.

Yeah, I don't think the word "aide" is necessarily the right word because that brings to mind an assistant. A better way of thinking of it would be someone who could attend as an additional guest. I am having trouble finding the exact reference in Bonanno's book, but I remember him saying that a Commission representative could consult with this "aide" (or guest) during breaks in the meeting, so this person could be an advisor. It may be in one of Bill Bonanno's books, actually -- I'm having trouble finding it, but it's in one of Joe or Bill's books.

I did find this excerpt in Joe Bonanno's book, which you will appreciate:

As a rule, the representatives from Chicago remained aloof from Commission business except when it affected them directly. Chicago enjoyed a quasi-independent status in the politics of our world. Unlike New York City, which had five Families, Chicago had only one. That created less tension and gave the Chicago people greater scope to solve their own problems. Also, it wasn't in Chicago's interest to get mixed up in the perpetual discord in New York City, which took up much of the Commission's attention.

This is backed up by other sources, too, as you know, which shows that Commission matters were more of an annoying obligation for Chicago than a pressing concern. Still, we do know they attended the major meetings and went through the motions, even with the Colombo family conflict of the mid-late 1970s.

I agree about "fixed" elections and i think that in Chicago was an "everyday" thing lol ive also seen cases in which only soldiers were previously called upon by the bosses so they can make a deal about whatever and later to simply announce it to the rest of that particular faction.

Regarding Ricca and Bonanno....i think that Ricca never gave the green light on him or his son because he sat next to Bonanno on the big table since the 1930s

[PolackTony]

I'm interpreting the "aide" thing as solely in context of the Commission meeting. If Giancana was sitting on the Commission for that meeting, and Ricca was technically his guest in that context, then Ricca I suppose was formally his "aide" just in that specific sense, even though outranking him and presumably holding veto power personally over Giancana's vote.

[Villain]

I'm interpreting the "aide" thing as solely in context of the Commission meeting. If Giancana was sitting on the Commission for that meeting, and Ricca was technically his guest in that context, then Ricca I suppose was formally his "aide" just in that specific sense, even though outranking him and presumably holding veto power personally over Giancana's vote.

I think that when it came down to commission matters, Giancana was the one who gave Chicago's vote, while Ricca was looked upon as some type of supreme power from the background. For example Tommy Eboli looked at Ricca as being on the same level as his own boss Vito Genovese (recently imprisoned at the time) and Catena kept quiet when Ricca or even when Giancana talked (which again confirms Catena's soft personality), meaning even high level members of the Genovese family looked at Ricca as one of the elders of the commission and around the country, and i dont think that Tommy Brown and Gambino had different thoughts, since according to numerous infos Lucchese and Giancana always voted the same, followed by Gambino and the Colombos. But when some commission members pushed for Bonanno's contract while others didnt know what to do, Ricca was allegedly the one who overruled Giancana on doing anything to the old man or his son (i dont think the attempt on Bill's life had anything to do with Chicago). So this means that back home (Chicago), Ricca was the boss besides Giancana acting around as one of the main guys on the commission and expressing his short temper in front of every commission rep...in fact, he even didnt like the commission lol

[Villain]

Conversation between Los Angeles gangster Jimmy Fratianno and Ricca’s West Coast emissary Johnny Roselli. Two made guys talking about top boss aka the Man in Chicago...

Fratiano said "I understand Sam is the boss out there now." "Sam's the boss," Roselli replied, "but the man in Chicago is still Paul Ricca. Sam doesn't make any moves without consulting Paul...He's been the man in Chicago since Capone went to prison. Forget Frank Nitti and Joe Batters. They listen to Paul, believe me."

[Frank]

Conversation between Los Angeles gangster Jimmy Fratianno and Ricca’s West Coast emissary Johnny Roselli. Two made guys talking about top boss aka the Man in Chicago...

Fratiano said "I understand Sam is the boss out there now." "Sam's the boss," Roselli replied, "but the man in Chicago is still Paul Ricca. Sam doesn't make any moves without consulting Paul...He's been the man in Chicago since Capone went to prison. Forget Frank Nitti and Joe Batters. They listen to Paul, believe me."

Interesting conversation. Sounds like Nitti was the daily boss. Sometimes he has been said to be only an area boss or capo.

[Villain]

Conversation between Los Angeles gangster Jimmy Fratianno and Ricca’s West Coast emissary Johnny Roselli. Two made guys talking about top boss aka the Man in Chicago...

Fratiano said "I understand Sam is the boss out there now." "Sam's the boss," Roselli replied, "but the man in Chicago is still Paul Ricca. Sam doesn't make any moves without consulting Paul...He's been the man in Chicago since Capone went to prison. Forget Frank Nitti and Joe Batters. They listen to Paul, believe me."

Interesting conversation. Sounds like Nitti was the daily boss. Sometimes he has been said to be only an area boss or capo.

Yes that info always stood out for me also but still there are too many obcstacles for confirming. For example Nitto and Campagna sponsored Giancana in 1939, and Ricca was probably the boss who inducted Giancana. So this means that during that period Nitto was either a capo or maybe even the underboss. Also i personally believe that the whole "top boss, boss emeritus" thing occurred after Nittos death or when the bosses received their early release from prison

[NickleCity]

Jimmy Caci, was he a member in 1979 of LA yet or no? Motofab and myself aren't sure. He's on the earlier chart under Licata but so are alot of people who weren't members.

Looking into this, LA is pretty interesting in how it links to the rest of the country. NY, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pueblo. Very few people actually from LA. I'm a 3rd of the way through but so far, only member born in LA was L.T. Dragna.

Most likely. From Buffalo News article on his death: “Caci's mob career blossomed after he left Buffalo in the 1970s and became a feared mob leader in Los Angeles, Palm Springs and Las Vegas.” https://buffalonews.com/news/jimmy-caci ... 91c46.html

[B.]

More info on LA member Dominick Longo and his Canadian ties:

- He was from the Hamilton, Ontario area and his family comes from San Giorgio Morgeto, Calabria, same hometown as Ontario underworld figure Tony Sylvestro. Sylvestro was associated with John Papalia's father and Sylvestro was Buffalo-Ontario figure Dante Gasbarrini's father-in-law. A Sylvestro descendant appears on an LE list of modern Buffalo and Ontario underworld figures that has been posted, along with Gasbarrini's son and other mafia names.

- Longo's father was Franco Longo and an uncle was also named Dominick. They associated early on with major Ontario figure Rocco Pierri and the Longos were reportedly close to Buffalo member John Papalia.

- The younger Dominick Longo started his Los Angeles car dealership in 1967. He was in California since at least 1964. Some reports indicate this Dominick Longo had ongoing contact with John Papalia as well.

- Dominick Longo employed LA boss Dominick Brooklier at his dealership and is described by Jimmy Fratianno in his book as a Los Angeles member. Brooklier and future boss Pete Milano asked Fratianno to arrange for Longo to receive formal member introduction to mafia members in "Montreal" via Detroit member Tony Randazzo.

- Longo dies in Los Angeles in 1985.

--

Here is where Stefano Magaddino refers to a Charlie Longo who wants Buffalo's support in becoming a "compare" and the above Longos are discussed:



^ The "Dominick" meeting with Magaddino during this recording is Dominick Romeo. He is a Buffalo member of Calabrian heritage who is well-connected to the Calabrian element in Canada and Magaddino treats him with uncharacteristic respect not typically afforded to his members.

^ I initially believed "San Giovanni Annato" referred phonetically to Sicilian village San Giuseppe Iato, where mafia-connected Longos from Utica were from. I also assumed they were discussing a Sicilian mafia connection to that village given Charlie Longo seems to be wanting some kind of underworld status involving that village.

^ It has since been confirmed that the Ontario Longos are from the Calabrian village of San Giorgio Morgeto. Either Magaddino said the name wrong or (more likely) it was phonetically misheard, the latter of which is extremely common on these tapes. San Giorgio Morgeto being heard as "San Giovanni Annato" would be one of the less egregious misinterpretations found on the Magaddino tapes.

^ Franco Longo's sons are mentioned as already living in California. They have trouble determining how Charlie Longo is related, though they suspect he is another son or nephew of Franco Longo. Reference is made to a younger Dominick Longo with a brother named Giorgio and given they are more familiar with Franco's sons and the sons are mentioned in California, Dominick and Giorgio are likely the sons of Franco living in California.

^ It's not clear who "John Busena" is in the transcript, but he appears to be an underworld figure given he is trying to seek Buffalo's help in getting Charlie Longo his desired underworld status. It is likely phonetic. John Papalia is clearly referred to on many Magaddino recordings, though Magaddino has a tendency to use strange names/nicknames for people. Papalia was in poor standing with the Buffalo leadership at this time.

^ "John Busena" lives in Sarnia, Ontario, which is much closer to Detroit. Interesting given Fratianno's reference to using a Detroit member to introduce Dominick Longo to Canadian members. If "Busena" lives in Sarnia, I believe this discludes John Papalia.

^ Magaddino says requesting Buffalo's help for Charlie Longo to achieve some kind of underworld status is a "serious breach of protocol" and has to come from San Giorgio Morgeto. He says that giving Longo status rests with the "local people" and Buffalo should not take responsibility. This statement about breach of protocol and Buffalo not taking responsibility is crucial to the discussion, as it strongly suggests the matter involves another mafia family, or much more likely given it involves Ontario and a Calabrian village, Magaddino is probably saying this is an 'Ndrangheta matter and this shows us that the Buffalo family cannot intervene in 'Ndrangheta matters.

^ During the conversation it is stated however that Longo claims to be from Buffalo. Given all of the known Longos were in Ontario and the Ontario-based "John Busena" was advocating for Charlie Longo, I interpret this not to mean that Longo lived in Buffalo but instead he was trying to use the Buffalo family as a reference to achieve his desired status. In context with this, Romeo says he knows Charlie Longo is not one of Franco's sons from California, as those Longos "had their papers fixed up" in California. I suspect he is saying that Franco Longo's sons in California would not need to use the Buffalo family as an underworld reference given Franco' sons were on record with Los Angeles, where we know Dominick Longo would be made. The California Longos would not need to use the Buffalo family as a reference given they were already affiliated with a local California group. (Which makes me wonder when Dominick Longo was made in LA.)

^ Magaddino says they checked "all societies" for information on Charlie Longo and were unable to reach a conclusion. These "societies" must be underworld groups. They conclude that Charlie Longo might be a son of the elder Dominick, which would make him a first cousin of future(?) Los Angeles member Dominick Longo.

^ The phone call made in connection to this discussion is not included, but the statements made beforehand reference a "cousin" and a a death sentence (whether taken literally or not, it indicates the seriousness of the matter).

Thoughts:

- While it appears Magaddino can't formally involve himself or the Buffalo family in 'Ndrangheta matters in Canada, it does show he was aware of them. In another conversation with Bonanno members, Magaddino seems to make reference to Giacomo Luppino's status with the 'Ndrangheta (though that word is not used).

- It is clear that Los Angeles member Dominick Longo, while on record with the local LA family since the 1960s, was connected not only to the Buffalo family and Buffalo's Ontario membership, but his relatives may have been involved in the 'Ndrangheta in Ontario as well.

- There have been a number of other Los Angeles members aside from Dominick Longo with Buffalo ties, including Jimmy Caci and Stephen Cino who were both active after Longo's death.

- We also have a vague reference to murdered Ontario figure Albert Iavarone being formally affiliated with Los Angeles in some way, which Joe Todaro was not informed about and did not appreciate the lack of protocol. Aside from his family's trip to Southern California months before his death, which may have been a coincidence, there is no apparent reason to connect Iavarone to whatever is left of a Los Angeles family.

- However, Albert Iavarone ran in the same circles as Calabrian Ontario figures the Luppinos, Violis, and Musitanos. In fact, he and his wife worked for the same Hamilton real estate brokerage firm as Domenico Violi and Cece Luppino's first cousin (who is not suspected of underworld involvement) and his murder has been linked to ongoing conflicts that have resulted in the murders of Luppino and the Musitanos, who in turn have been connected to the 1997 murder of John Papalia, reportedly a close friend/associate of the Longos.

- There is no reason to believe that Iavarone can be directly connected to Dominick Longo, who died in 1985, but both men have ties to the same Calabrian underworld element in Ontario and Longo is an example of someone from a similar Ontario background who was able to be made in Los Angeles much earlier. The Iavarones also appear to have had a condo or other ongoing connection to Naples, Florida, where they regularly vacationed.

- Fratianno discused Longo's desire to be formally introduced to members in Canada, the extent of his contacts with Canada unknown, though it is unsurprising that someone originally from the Ontario underworld would want to have his mafia status in Los Angeles shared with his home country in order to strengthen his connections to the area.

Did the Calabrian Longo, who ran a legitimate business and appears to have been extremely low-key in his mafia activities, serve as a go-between for Ontario Calabrian mafia figures and the Los Angeles area beyond the introduction mentioned by Fratianno? Did that introduction end up happening?

For example, did Longo continue contact with his Calabrian hometown paesano the younger Sylvestro (who appears on LE's modern list) and Sylvestro's relatives the Gasbarrinis?

Could this connection have been preserved after Longo's 1985 death and potentially lead to another Ontario member getting inducted in Los Angeles decades later without Buffalo boss Joe Todaro's knowledge? And without moving there?

Is Iavarone of Calabrian heritage and could he be related to other well-known Calabrian figures from Ontario?

Is the statement from the "police agent" about Iavarone's LA membership and Todaro's concerns, as cited in the Canadian article, some kind of mistake or misinformation? It's almost too weird to be not believed, as it doesn't serve any narrative purpose for any of the parties involved. If it's not true, something must have been lost in translation that made its way through several different sources which is always possible, but as of now we can't officially discount it, either, so it is worth considering how this situation may have developed.

Is there reported 'Ndrangheta activity in the Los Angeles area?

Just some questions. We are missing many historic pieces that could tell us more and even disprove some assumptions, though I suspect these missing pieces would also tell us a lot more about Dominick Longo, his family's involvement with the Buffalo family, with 'Ndrangheta groups, and the extent of his ongoing contact with the Ontario underworld.

Dr. Gregory Genovese, member of the San Francisco family and son-in-law of Joe Bonanno, testified that Dominic Longo lived in the Bay Area before he moved to Los Angeles and co-owned a Toyota dealership in the Bay Area with Genovese even after Longo moved to LA. Genovese said Longo lived in San Mateo until approximately 1964 when he moved to LA.

This would suggest Longo was involved with either the SF or SJ families before the LA family and he maintained a business up there before moving.

Genovese also said Longo had worked for the Bay Area Ford dealership owned by actor Ben Alexander. Alexander had dealerships in LA and SF, with the SF one starting in 1959.

[Rat]

I've read a few times on here there were efforts to unify the California families. Wouldn't that of made them the largest family outside of New York? Why would the other families be interested in this

[Nick Prango]

Breakshot by Kenji Gallo. Up to this point every source has characterized Milano as a weak and ineffective boss. Gallo sang that tune when we first met, by the time his book was published he had began to see him in a new light. (I typed enough today plus I got an appointment, so I'm including 5 pages of his book but it serves as a marketing tool, the entire book is worth a read, especially when it comes to the Colombos.

Anyway, Regarding Milano...

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..."Louis Caruso's second, Tommaso Gambino"...

Great read

[B.]

Not sure it's been mentioned elsewhere, but Gravano says he attended one of the events at the Westchester Theater and DePalma asked him if he wanted to be formally introduced to Jimmy Fratianno, described by DePalma as the boss of California.

Gravano turned it down. He says he didn't even think there was a California family, thinking it was open territory, and was focused on being there with his wife.

He says Fratianno walked directly up to him and introduced himself as the boss of California, which as Gravano says was a violation of the rules. Gravano was upset and the two exchanged words. Gravano was also upset with DePalma, as he felt DePalma egged Fratianno on to go talk to Gravano. Gravano met with Paul Castellano later where he aired his grievances about DePalma and Fratianno. DePalma was apparently chastised for his conduct and he and Gravano were never close after that.

Later Paul Castellano told Gravano that Fratianno lied about being boss and that Fratianno was also a confidential informant. Interesting if true, as it means the mob knew Fratianno had been a CI before becoming a witness (unless Gravano mixed the two up, though we are fairly sure Fratianno was also a CI).

[bronx]

another "new story" yeah they knew he was a rat and did nothing