John Pennisi Sighting / Sit Down News

[Pogo The Clown]

Several families have been infiltrated by undercover Feds or cops (some more than once) throughout the years and I can't recall anyone getting clipped for it.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Several families have been infiltrated by undercover Feds or cops (some more than once) throughout the years and I can't recall anyone getting clipped for it.


Pogo

That’s my impression also, though I can’t say with 100% certainty that it’s categorically never happened. I understand peoples’ arguments for Napolitano here, but I think it’s not an ideal case example given the deeper context between him and Massino.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Vitale when he testified against Massino said the following:

"Vitale also tied Massino to the murder of Dominick (Sonny Black) Napolitano, who was killed for introducing undercover FBI Agent Donnie Brasco into the Bonanno family. "I went on a walk-talk with Joe Massino in Howard Beach [Queens], and he said, 'I have to give him a receipt for the Donnie Brasco situation,' " Vitale said. "I understood that to mean he wanted him dead."

Good info. Thanks Charlie.


Why's it gone quiet in here all of a sudden? (Relax P & WG, just fucking around)

[SonnyBlackstein]

That’s my impression also, though I can’t say with 100% certainty that it’s categorically never happened. I understand peoples’ arguments for Napolitano here, but I think it’s not an ideal case example given the deeper context between him and Massino.

Remember Rastelli was in charge. So it wasnt Massino's call to clip Black.

Massino couldnt clip another Button without Rastelli's say so.
When he was given the ok it would've been on the basis of Brasco. He didnt approach Rastelli and say "Im envious of Black can I hit him./Black wants consig, hes gotta go."
The only and obvious reason wouldve been Brasco.

Hence, Black was clipped because of Brasco, Massino's jealousy or not is irrelevant.

We have testimony from Vitale confirming this exact point. This isnt even a debate anymore.

[PolackTony]

That’s my impression also, though I can’t say with 100% certainty that it’s categorically never happened. I understand peoples’ arguments for Napolitano here, but I think it’s not an ideal case example given the deeper context between him and Massino.

Remember Rastelli was in charge. So it wasnt Massino's call to clip Black.

Massino couldnt clip another Button without Rastelli's say so.
When he was given the ok it would've been on the basis of Brasco. He didnt approach Rastelli and say "Im envious of Black can I hit him./Black wants consig, hes gotta go."
The only and obvious reason wouldve been Brasco.

Hence, Black was clipped because of Brasco, Massino's jealousy or not is irrelevant.

We have testimony from Vitale confirming this exact point. This isnt even a debate anymore.

That’s a good point. If Rastelli actually made the call and ruled based solely on Brasco, than that’s that. Is there any evidence that Rastelli could’ve have been influenced by more than the Brasco thing here?

[SonnyBlackstein]

That’s a good point. If Rastelli actually made the call and ruled based solely on Brasco, than that’s that. Is there any evidence that Rastelli could’ve have been influenced by more than the Brasco thing here?

Vitale stated Joe said "I have to give Black a receipt for the Donnie Brasco thing."

It couldnt be any clearer. Massino is explicitly stating Black was clipped for Brasco.
Rastelli gave the order to clip Black for Brasco.

It couldnt be clearer.

[Antiliar]

It seems reasonable that considering Joe Pistone finished his undercover operations on July 26, 1981 and Sonny Black was killed less than a month later on August 17 to conclude that they might be connected.

[chin_gigante]

Funnily enough, Rastelli doesn't get a mention in Massino's testimony about the Napolitano murder. He says Ferrugia and Cannone made the decision. His description of the three captains' murders also makes it seem like they decided to carry that out themselves (with Gambino and Colombo backing) before sending word to Rastelli

[johnny_scootch]

Several families have been infiltrated by undercover Feds or cops (some more than once) throughout the years and I can't recall anyone getting clipped for it.


Pogo

That’s true Pogo but this was the first time it happened and to such a great extent. Brasco was meeting bosses in Florida and Milwaukee plus he was proposed for membership wasnt he? Truly embarrassing for the entire Bonanno family.

Imo in the 1980’s that’s more than enough reason to kill someone.

[B.]

Vitale and Massino disagree on a couple murders. Vitale claimed the Sciascia murder happened because of the Graziano situation, while Massino said it was for the unsanctioned murder of Frank Cotroni's son. I'm sure both factored in, but Massino may have felt the greater issue was the Cotroni murder and the Graziano beef simply added to it.

Vitale also admittedly has memory issues with some of these details. For example in his later testimony he couldn't even remember who Joe LoPresti even was despite providing earlier info on the LoPresti murder.

My belief is Napolitano's death was influenced by him challenging the administration -- this may have been the lynchpin -- but him proposing an undercover agent for membership added to the case they were making against him. Often murders happen because of multiple infractions but the more pressing concern may have been Napolitano's alleged coup.

Massino didn't downplay the Brasco situation either -- he readily admitted he changed the rules for inductions as a direct result, forcing associates to be on record with their sponsor for 8 years because he felt that would rule out undercover agents.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Often murders happen because of multiple infractions but the more pressing concern may have been Napolitano's alleged coup.

What coup?
1. Where left told Basco he and Massino were feuding? That was pre 3 Capos and Massino just cant clip another family member for being more powerful.
2. Where Pogo said he was angling for Consig? How the f is that a coup? A coup is what Gotti did. Not angling for a promotion.

Honestly, some of you gents just will not admit youre wrong.

The language Vitale used was exact, explicit and unusual. So dont say Vitales got a bad memory on this one.

Brasco comes out as a Fed, Massino says "I have to give Sonny a receipt for the Donnie Brasco situation" and within three weeks Black voluntarily walks into a basement meeting unarmed and unescorted (whilst "mid-coup" ) and gets clipped.

It couldnt be clearer.

[B.]

Massino testified that he “tried to save Sonny Black” and that Sonny Black told Sally Farrugia and "the greaseballs” that he was ready to “go to war tomorrow”. Massino denies telling Vitale they were going to kill Sonny Black.

So if you want to discount Massino you can, but it's not like Vitale's word beats Massino unless you purposely want to discount Massino's testimony. You can consider both men's accounts, but not sure what basis there is for discounting Massino who is higher up on the hierarchy of sources and would have more intimate knowledge as to what actually transpired. Vitale wasn't even a member when Napolitano was killed.

[Pogo The Clown]

Several families have been infiltrated by undercover Feds or cops (some more than once) throughout the years and I can't recall anyone getting clipped for it.


Pogo

That’s true Pogo but this was the first time it happened and to such a great extent. Brasco was meeting bosses in Florida and Milwaukee plus he was proposed for membership wasnt he? Truly embarrassing for the entire Bonanno family.

Imo in the 1980’s that’s more than enough reason to kill someone.

There were other infiltrations in the 1970s. A fed infiltrated New Orleans and even met with Carlos Marcello. A cop (Fed?) infiltrated the Genovese North Jersey Crew. Though obviously Pistone got in the deepest.


Pogo

[Shellackhead]

Pretty crazy how Sonny black walked to his death… who took over his crew?

[B.]

Another thing from Donnie Brasco that supports Massino's story about Mirra is that Lefty was continually accusing Mirra of being a stool pigeon. It was apparently already a rumor and then Al Walker got ahold of paperwork.

Something to remember too is even though Massino was part of the ruling panel and complicit in all off these murder conspiracies, he wasn't the one who ordered these murders. He may have helped fan the flames, but it's not like Massino is testifying about murders where he was the final word. There isn't much incentive to lie given Sally Fruits, Steve Cannone, and Rastelli all outranked Massino.

It used to be said that Massino ordered the Cesare Bonventre murder but that's another one he cleared up, saying it was a beef between Rastelli and Bonventre. Gary Valenti's testimony supports this, as he was aware via Asaro (close friend of Bonventre) of Bonventre openly disrespecting Rastelli at meetings which is one of the reasons Massino gave for the murder.