Family Councils / Consigli / Seggia / Elders / Inner Circle

[Angelo Santino]

So Families that had Consigli were

Tampa
Detroit
Milwaukee
Chicago
Kansas City
San Francisco
New England
*Bonanno

[Pogo The Clown]

San Jose also had one.


Pogo

[cavita]

So Families that had Consigli were

Tampa
Detroit
Milwaukee
Chicago
Kansas City
San Francisco
New England
*Bonanno

Rockford had one as well

[B.]

I don't think there's enough to include NYC Families but there is evidence these Families had one:

San Jose
Tampa
Detroit
Milwaukee
Chicago
St. Louis
Kansas City
Pittston (a consiglio seemingly presided over an underworld trial for LaTorre)
Pittsburgh (Gentile says he contacted the consiglio there to assist w/ Paolinello situation)
Los Angeles (a source said the "Bastoni (canes / sticks) referred to a group of elders)
DeCavalcante
San Francisco
New England
Rockford

+ Possibly even Philadelphia, as Scafidi initially told the FBI he thought they were three consiglieri, listing Joe Rugnetta (consigliere), Ignazio Denaro (underboss), and Dominick Oliveto (former consigliere). He found out there was only one consigliere but he had been a member for ten years and was shelved during most of that time. That a multi-gen member thought there could be three consiglieri is very similar to the above Families and could indicate when he was shelved in the 1950s there was still a consiglio and he assumed it was still in use when he was first taken off the shelf.

+ Valachi did say New York/New Jersey had the joint "consiglio" (the term he used) which served a similar function in protecting members from the boss's whims. It doesn't seem like it included general administration / policy like the single Family consiglio though. More like a Gran Consiglio exclusive to NYC.

+ Both Calderone and Buscetta made references that show this was in use in Sicily, so it makes sense it was more common in the historic US mafia.

[Angelo Santino]

I don't think there's enough to include NYC Families but there is evidence these Families had one:

San Jose
Tampa
Detroit
Milwaukee
Chicago
St. Louis
Kansas City
Pittston (a consiglio seemingly presided over an underworld trial for LaTorre)
Pittsburgh (Gentile says he contacted the consiglio there to assist w/ Paolinello situation)
Los Angeles (a source said the "Bastoni (canes / sticks) referred to a group of elders)
DeCavalcante
San Francisco
New England
Rockford

+ Possibly even Philadelphia, as Scafidi initially told the FBI he thought they were three consiglieri, listing Joe Rugnetta (consigliere), Ignazio Denaro (underboss), and Dominick Oliveto (former consigliere). He found out there was only one consigliere but he had been a member for ten years and was shelved during most of that time. The fact that a seasone multi-gen member thought there could be three consiglieri is very similar to the above Families and could indicate when he was shelved in the 1950s there was still a consiglio and he assumed it was still in use when he was first taken off the shelf.

+ Valachi did say New York/New Jersey had the joint "consiglio" (the term he used) which served a similar function in protecting members from the boss's whims. It doesn't seem like it included general administration / policy like the single Family consiglio though. More like a Gran Consiglio exclusive to NYC.

LA in 1963?

[B.]

Not sure. There's only one vague reference to it but I've never seen Piscopo, Fratianno, or Bompensiero refer to it when they were cooperating in the 1960s. It may have faded by then.

[PolackTony]

Not sure. There's only one vague reference to it but I've never seen Piscopo, Fratianno, or Bompensiero refer to it when they were cooperating in the 1960s. It may have faded by then.

Given that we have Bomp specifically reporting that Chicago had a Consiglio (and telling the Feds that this was like a "Commissione" for the family), you'd think he would've said that LA had one if they did.

[B.]

One thing that's become more and more clear, especially with this consiglio thing, is New York was not the standard all mafia organizations should be compared to. The rest of the US (including Chicago) was much more like the mafia of old than New York, where Family sizes and administration were carried out differently out of necessity.

People have this idea that the New York mafia was "normal" when it was anything but. It was just much bigger and we know more about it.

[Angelo Santino]

One thing that's become more and more clear, especially with this consiglio thing, is New York was not the standard all mafia organizations should be compared to. The rest of the US (including Chicago) was much more like the mafia of old than New York, where Family sizes and administration were carried out differently out of necessity.

People have this idea that the New York mafia was "normal" when it was anything but. It was just much bigger and we know more about it.

I agree and disagree. I'd argue that the American Mafia is a much larger example of the mafia's origins and traits. In Sicily, Palermo is the political and membership capital. 20+ families ranging from 50 to 150 members in one city. Outside of Palermo things are different, go to Trapani and the Palermo province interior and those groups were smaller in membership but had representation in multiple cities. Castellammare and Corleone did not just have members in those cities but in neighboring ones as well. You go to Agrigento and those groups are more confined to single cities but there's nearly a group for every city. I'd argue America mirrors this with examples like single city Kansas City and mult-citied "Cleveland."

When it comes to consigli we don't know how widespread they were in Sicily, maybe not every family had one.

[B.]

Yeah that is a good observation, but I'd say the same idea applies -- people tend to judge the entire Sicilian mafia through the lens of Palermo when most of the island operated differently. Italian authorities were aware of this even early on, noting the differences between Palermo and Agrigento (same examples you used).

We can see in the US too that most Families didn't have significant membership from Palermo citta. We'll see what the data shows when the charts are done but I see inland Palermo and Agrigento much more represented nationally than the citta.

[CabriniGreen]

One thing that's become more and more clear, especially with this consiglio thing, is New York was not the standard all mafia organizations should be compared to. The rest of the US (including Chicago) was much more like the mafia of old than New York, where Family sizes and administration were carried out differently out of necessity.

People have this idea that the New York mafia was "normal" when it was anything but. It was just much bigger and we know more about it.

As someone who follows Italy a bit, I've been saying this for awhile. It's why I'm open on things like say... Buffalo being a small family. Take out the 5 families, and most of Italian OC is pretty similar, from all regions, at least to me.

[B.]

Definitely -- following the Sicilian side really helps understand the early American mafia. It takes an obsessive interest to pay attention but once you see the patterns they're hard to ignore.

[sdeitche]

Two things:

one, in re-reading my section on the Tampa council, from Cigar City Mafia (2004), I say it's rare for a Mafia family to have a council. Obviously, this thread didn't exist back then! I will update that if I ever do a revised edition.

Two, don't think I posted this earlier in the thread- The members of the Tampa council in the late 80s/early 90s

Gaetano Diecidue
James Costa Longo
Sam Trafficante
Arthur Perla (Calabrian)
Al Scaglione
Baby Joe Diez (Cuban)

[B.]

Scott -- I credit you with being the first person to actually mention a ruling council distinct from the admin. It shows too you weren't biased in assuming there was a council (as I might be prone to do) but just reporting the evidence. Now that we've learned this was common it makes complete sense Tampa would be one of the Families to rely on the consiglio. Amazing they were still using it in the 1990s.

I know zero about him except what you shared, but Diez seems to be like a Gus Alex in that he represented certain interests at a high level despite not being a made member. Shows even a heavily Sicilian Family (what did the chart reveal, 90+ percent?) had those kinds of relationships.

[Antiliar]

Two things:

one, in re-reading my section on the Tampa council, from Cigar City Mafia (2004), I say it's rare for a Mafia family to have a council. Obviously, this thread didn't exist back then! I will update that if I ever do a revised edition.

Two, don't think I posted this earlier in the thread- The members of the Tampa council in the late 80s/early 90s

Gaetano Diecidue
James Costa Longo
Sam Trafficante
Arthur Perla (Calabrian)
Al Scaglione
Baby Joe Diez (Cuban)

It's interesting that a Cuban was on the council, but maybe not all that unique. Whatever Chicago's councils were like, I'm sure they had extended versions that included at different times Jake Guzik, Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex. Despite their high-ranking status, they probably had to leave the room when certain topics were discussed. Maishe Rockman probably had a similar position in Cleveland, and maybe Lansky when Luciano was around.