Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

Moderator: Capos

Post Reply
johnny_scootch
Full Patched
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by johnny_scootch »

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:36 pm This is different from what I recall. Where did you read 2 lists?

Genovese Mobster Vincent Esposito Schools Feds on New York's Five Families
By Ed Scarpo Sunday, January 28, 2018

New York's Five Families can expand their ranks each year and have multi-million-dollar slush finds. (The Genovese family's is below). We're being flippant, of course, taking literally what's been said in a court document.

That is noted in an appeal letter to US District Judge of New York's Southern District Victor Marrero from the interim-US Attorney. The appeal is regarding the pretrial release of Vincent Esposito, a high-ranking member of the Genovese crime family. Appeal letters are by nature extreme documents, with the Fed's essentially arguing their case and giving the judge the verdict, which they depict as inevitable. It isn't, of course, until Esposito exercises his constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers.

Esposito, a son of Vincent (Chin) Gigante, and four other reputed Genovese mobsters were arrested earlier this month and charged with running a longtime racketeering scheme involving extortion and other crimes.

Interim-US Attorney Geoffrey S. Berman, a seasoned prosecutor with the Southern District, was recently appointed to the acting position by US AG Jeff Sessions. The Feds are trying to deny Esposito bail on the grounds that he is a "high-ranking and influential member of the Genovese Family who is willing to use threats of violence to further the enterprise, who has the ability to follow through on those threats, and who maintains a network of criminal associates willing to make threats on his behalf."

That is based on the nearly $4 million they found in his residence, as well as weapons and lists of made members.

Whether Esposito is even a made member is an open question. The Fed's don't describe Esposito as having a specific rank, instead using the vaguely menacing rubric of high-ranking figure. The weapons found in his home are difficult to take seriously: they resemble inexpensive items purchased in a souvenir shop (see image below, sometimes a picture can't take the place of words).

The Feds acutally found "two lists of made members of the Genovese Family hidden in Esposito’s residence. One of those lists consists of certain made members of the Family based in New Jersey who died within the last 20 years, while another list contains certain living members of the Family, all in one crew, and also based in New Jersey," the letter noted.

The letter includes the following about Esposito, and the New York Mafia:

The FBI seized approximately $3.8 million from Esposito’s residence. The Feds believe that this money is the Genovese crime family's slush fund (used to hire attorneys for members, etc. First we heard about the Feds referring to a Mafia slush fund. More below.)
Vincent Esposito has an ownership interest in numerous properties, including the Upper East Side townhouse where he was arrested, which is worth an estimated $12 million. He also has a piece of a Harlem property worth at least $5 million and other properties he declined to divulge in a pretrial interview.
Each crime family has a "slush fund," as the FBI calls it. Which is interesting considering that by calling it a slush fund (a reserve of money used for illicit purposes, especially political bribery), it is implied that crime families also have licit funds. Specifically,the letter notes: "Esposito is in control of Genovese Family slush funds. Organized crime families of La Cosa Nostra have long maintained slush funds to serve a variety of purposes for the family, including paying for the legal fees of incarcerated members and funding extortionate loans through loansharking.
The letter also states something that is contrary to what we've heard from a source, the Five Families are permitted to expand the number of members per family.
To wit:

Originally, LCN families could initiate new members only to replace a deceased member, which ensured that the families maintained their relative sizes and did not dilute their talent pools in an effort to become larger. Later, these rules were adjusted to allow each family to add a small number of additional members each year even absent the death of an existing member. Once a new member is proposed, the member’s name is circulated to all five families for review and approval. After the new member is approved, the family holds a secret, ritualistic induction ceremony, after which the newly-inducted member is introduced to other members of the family....

Most of the letter follows. Dated January 17, it was slightly edited for readability purposes. Lines of text have been italicized and put in bold by this blog to highlight certain details:

... At the time of his arrest, the FBI seized almost $4 million in U.S. currency hidden in the defendant’s residence, along with an unregistered handgun, ammunition, brass knuckles, and lists of made members of the Genovese Family.

Further, the defendant lied to Pretrial Services about his assets and possession of a firearm. In light of these and other facts discussed below, the defendant should be detained pending trial to ensure the safety of the community and his appearance at trial.

On January 10, 2018, a ten-count Indictment (the “Indictment”) was unsealed charging five defendants with various crimes. Relevant to this letter, the defendant is charged in Count One with participating in a long-running racketeering conspiracy from at least in or about 2001 to in or about October 2017, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1962(d). Count Two charges the defendant with participating in a Hobbs Act extortion conspiracy from in or about 2001 through in or about 2015, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1951.

The defendant was arrested on the same date the Indictment was unsealed, and a bail hearing was held before Magistrate Judge Barbara C. Moses that day. Judge Moses set the following bail conditions for the defendant:

 Home incarceration with electronic monitoring

 A $6 million bond, co-signed by three financially responsible persons and secured by the defendant’s Upper East Side townhouse (with an estimated value of approximately $12 million).

 No contact with victims or witnesses

 No contact with co-defendants, except in the presence of counsel

 Surrender of passport and any other travel documents, and no new applications for such documents

 Strict pretrial supervision

Judge Moses further ordered that all bail conditions would have to be satisfied before the defendant was released.

At this time, the defendant has not met all conditions set by Judge Moses and remains detained.

The charges against the defendant arise from his leadership role in the Genovese Family, a violent and sophisticated criminal organization with significant financial resources. The danger the defendant poses if bailed, and his incentive to flee the charges against him, stem in large part from the dangerous nature of the Genovese Family, and the crimes the defendant committed as part of it. This letter therefore discusses the Genovese Family as a whole and then examines the specific statutory factors as they apply to the defendant.

To become a made member of LCN, an individual must be male and Italian. Originally, LCN families could initiate new members only to replace a deceased member, which ensured that the families maintained their relative sizes and did not dilute their talent pools in an effort to become larger. Later, these rules were adjusted to allow each family to add a small number of additional members each year even absent the death of an existing member. Once a new member is proposed, the member’s name is circulated to all five families for review and approval. After the new member is approved, the family holds a secret, ritualistic induction ceremony, after which the newly-inducted member is introduced to other members of the family.

Count One of the Indictment charges Esposito with participation in the Genovese Family racketeering enterprise, and the predicate acts for that charge include multiple acts of extortion, among other offenses. One of those acts is the long-running extortion of a union official (“Official-1”) for annual tribute payments of over $10,000 (the “Annual Payment Extortion”), which is also charged separately in Count Two as a Hobbs Act extortion conspiracy.

Counts One and Two both constitute “crimes of violence” under § 3142(g), weighing in favor of detention here. See United States v. Ciccone, 312 F.3d 535, 542 (2d Cir. 2002) (holding that extortion, and racketeering conspiracy charging extortion as a predicate act, are crimes of violence under the Bail Reform Act). Esposito directed and managed the Annual Payment Extortion, and had a number of lower-ranking members of the enterprise, including defendants Vincent D’Acunto and Steve Arena, collect money and convey threats to Official-1 on Esposito’s behalf.

A number of those demands were secretly recorded. For example, on March 6, 2014, D’Acunto passed along a message to Official-1 that Esposito wanted to know when that year’s extortion payment would be made and warned that Official-1 was “gonna be in for a big surprise” if the payment was not made. In a recording from February 13, 2015, after Official-1 asks D’Acunto “do I get killed, do I get shot, do I get hit” if Official-1 did not make that year’s extortion payment, D’Acunto responded, “they never say or else.”


In another extortion scheme, defendants Steve Arena and Frank Giovinco, acting under the supervision of Esposito, extorted a different union official (“Official-2”) and a financial adviser (the “Adviser”) for a cut of commissions made from union investments (the “Commission Payment Extortion”). During one covert recording of Official-2 on September 19, 2017, Official-2 (who was not aware he was being recorded) reported to the Adviser that Arena and Giovinco were “threatening my life” and that he was worried because he did not know what Arena and Giovinco were telling the “higher ups” in the Genovese Family.

A wiretap of Esposito’s phone also captured him discussing other extortion schemes. For example, on October 6, 2015, another individual informed Esposito that “I really did extort a parking lot in that spot, I want you to know.” Esposito’s ability and willingness to follow through on threats of force is confirmed by the weapons found by the FBI in Esposito’s residence on the day of his arrest. Specifically, the FBI seized brass knuckles, a knife with a holster, an unregistered handgun, and bullets from Esposito’s residence. Those items are depicted in the photograph below (The FBI also seized a starter pistol, which was initially believed to be a firearm.):

Esposito’s leadership role in the enterprise is demonstrated by two important pieces of evidence that are typically reserved for high-ranking members within La Cosa Nostra.

First, the evidence shows that Esposito is in control of Genovese Family slush funds. Organized crime families of La Cosa Nostra have long maintained slush funds to serve a variety of purposes for the family, including paying for the legal fees of incarcerated members and funding extortionate loans through loansharking.

Historically, only individuals in positions of authority have been tasked with maintaining control over such funds. Here, wiretap intercepts of Esposito’s cellphone captured him discussing the collection and disbursement of funds with other members of the Genovese Family. For example, on October 17, 2015, Esposito had a call with another individual about providing funds for the legal representation of the former consigliere of the Genovese Family, who was incarcerated.


Esposito’s role as one of the individuals who holds the purse strings for Genovese Family funds is further confirmed by the fact that the FBI seized approximately $3.8 million in U.S. currency from Esposito’s residence.

Second, the FBI also found two lists of made members of the Genovese Family hidden in Esposito’s residence. One of those lists consists of certain made members of the Family based in New Jersey who died within the last 20 years, while another list contains certain living members of the Family, all in one crew, and also based in New Jersey. As discussed above, whether or not LCN families can make new members has traditionally been based, in part, on the number of active and deceased members, and is reserved for individuals at the captain level or higher. The maintenance of such lists tracking living and dead members in a particular area are indicative of an individual responsible for making assessments about the induction of individuals into the Family, and thus having a high rank in the Family.

In sum, the offense conduct shows that the defendant is a high-ranking and influential member of the Genovese Family who is willing to use threats of violence to further the enterprise, who has the ability to follow through on those threats, and who maintains a network of criminal associates willing to make threats on his behalf. The defendant would thus pose a clear danger to the community if he were bailed.

The offense conduct also demonstrates that the defendant has significant undeclared financial resources and connections to a wide-ranging and powerful criminal network. In light of these facts, the nature and circumstances of the defendant’s offenses demonstrate that, if bailed, the defendant poses a significant risk of flight.

2. The Weight of the Evidence

The evidence against the defendant is strong. The evidence includes, among other things, a cooperating witness (Official-1) who was directly extorted by Esposito; numerous in-person and covert recordings of lower-level members of the enterprise collecting money and conveying threats on behalf of Esposito; a wiretap of Esposito’s phone which captured him discussing extortion, the enterprise’s finances, and other related enterprise matters; the seizure of a handgun, brass knuckles, and over $3.8 million in U.S. currency from the defendant’s residence; and surveillance photographs of the defendant meeting with other members of the Genovese Family.

3. The History and Characteristics of the Defendant

The defendant’s history and characteristics also favor detention. As discussed above, the defendant has participated in a number of different acts of extortion and possessed brass knuckles, a holstered knife, and an unlicensed firearm and ammunition. While the defendant has no criminal record, the evidence, in this case, indicates that he has engaged in serious criminal conduct from at least 2001 through the present.

The defendant also has access to extensive financial resources, both individually and by virtue of his membership in the Genovese Family. The defendant has an ownership interest in numerous properties, including an Upper East Side townhouse worth an estimated $12 million, a Harlem property worth at least $5 million, and other properties for which he declined to provide addresses in his pretrial interview. As demonstrated by the fruits of the search of the defendant’s residence, he maintains massive quantities of cash on hand. Further, the defendant’s willingness to lie to Pretrial Services about his financial resources (as well as his possession of a firearm) demonstrates that he cannot be trusted to comply with any conditions of release.

4. The Nature and Seriousness of the Danger to Any Person or the Community

The nature and seriousness of the danger the defendant presents is clear: as discussed above, he is a high-ranking and influential member of the Genovese crime family who is willing to use threats of violence to further the enterprise, who has the ability to follow through on those threats, and who maintains a network of criminal associates willing to make threats on his behalf. The defendant would thus pose a clear danger to the community if he were bailed.

To the extent the defendant argues that home detention would relieve that threat, he is in error. The Second Circuit has repeatedly held that home detention or incarceration cannot adequately mitigate the risk of violent conduct. See United States v. Orena, 986 F.2d at 632 (collecting cases); see also United States v. Dono, 275 F. App’x 35, 37 (2d Cir. 2008) (relying on Orena). The Circuit has made these rulings with good reason. Home detention or incarceration is monitored remotely using an electronic system that alerts pretrial services staff who work only during the day. Such minimal oversight would do little to prevent the defendant from traveling to locations to intimidate witnesses, or meeting with other members of the Genovese Family at his home and providing direction that others engage in witness intimidation or retaliation, consistent with Genovese Family’s creed against “rats.”

IV. Conclusion For the foregoing reasons, the Government respectfully submits that the defendant poses a danger to the safety of the community and a risk of flight, and should therefore be detained pending trial.

Respectfully submitted,

GEOFFREY S. BERMAN United States Attorney
User avatar
SonnyBlackstein
Filthy Few
Posts: 7576
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

Appreciated
Don't give me your f***ing Manson lamps.
johnny_scootch
Full Patched
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by johnny_scootch »

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:52 am Appreciated
Sonny this is the entire paragraph from the letter pertaining to the lists.

Second, the FBI also found two lists of made members of the Genovese Family hidden in Esposito’s residence. One of those lists consists of certain made members of the Family based in New Jersey who died within the last 20 years, while another list contains certain living members of the Family, all in one crew, and also based in New Jersey. As discussed above, whether or not LCN families can make new members has traditionally been based, in part, on the number of active and deceased members, and is reserved for individuals at the captain level or higher. The maintenance of such lists tracking living and dead members in a particular area are indicative of an individual responsible for making assessments about the induction of individuals into the Family, and thus having a high rank in the Family.
User avatar
SonnyBlackstein
Filthy Few
Posts: 7576
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

johnny_scootch wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:33 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:52 am Appreciated
Sonny this is the entire paragraph from the letter pertaining to the lists.

Second, the FBI also found two lists of made members of the Genovese Family hidden in Esposito’s residence. One of those lists consists of certain made members of the Family based in New Jersey who died within the last 20 years, while another list contains certain living members of the Family, all in one crew, and also based in New Jersey. As discussed above, whether or not LCN families can make new members has traditionally been based, in part, on the number of active and deceased members, and is reserved for individuals at the captain level or higher. The maintenance of such lists tracking living and dead members in a particular area are indicative of an individual responsible for making assessments about the induction of individuals into the Family, and thus having a high rank in the Family.
This was in the appeal letter to the judge from the prosecution?
Don't give me your f***ing Manson lamps.
johnny_scootch
Full Patched
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by johnny_scootch »

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:29 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:33 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:52 am Appreciated
Sonny this is the entire paragraph from the letter pertaining to the lists.

Second, the FBI also found two lists of made members of the Genovese Family hidden in Esposito’s residence. One of those lists consists of certain made members of the Family based in New Jersey who died within the last 20 years, while another list contains certain living members of the Family, all in one crew, and also based in New Jersey. As discussed above, whether or not LCN families can make new members has traditionally been based, in part, on the number of active and deceased members, and is reserved for individuals at the captain level or higher. The maintenance of such lists tracking living and dead members in a particular area are indicative of an individual responsible for making assessments about the induction of individuals into the Family, and thus having a high rank in the Family.
This was in the appeal letter to the judge from the prosecution?
Yes, the US attorney used the lists to prove to the judge that Esposito was a high ranking member.
User avatar
SonnyBlackstein
Filthy Few
Posts: 7576
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

johnny_scootch wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:24 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:29 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:33 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:52 am Appreciated
Sonny this is the entire paragraph from the letter pertaining to the lists.

Second, the FBI also found two lists of made members of the Genovese Family hidden in Esposito’s residence. One of those lists consists of certain made members of the Family based in New Jersey who died within the last 20 years, while another list contains certain living members of the Family, all in one crew, and also based in New Jersey. As discussed above, whether or not LCN families can make new members has traditionally been based, in part, on the number of active and deceased members, and is reserved for individuals at the captain level or higher. The maintenance of such lists tracking living and dead members in a particular area are indicative of an individual responsible for making assessments about the induction of individuals into the Family, and thus having a high rank in the Family.
This was in the appeal letter to the judge from the prosecution?
Yes, the US attorney used the lists to prove to the judge that Esposito was a high ranking member.
Well this is quite a revelation. If the above was in a letter by the prosecution to a judge.

The government is stating Esposito is ‘a captain or higher’.

This is I believe new information .
Don't give me your f***ing Manson lamps.
Doobeez
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:35 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by Doobeez »

Damn good read..thanks for putting this up, Johnny..
User avatar
Teddy Persico
Straightened out
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 10:20 am
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by Teddy Persico »

The government seems to be basing this belief just on the lists and money. Is there any actual evidence of his rank or are they just using this logic to deny him bail?
The way you talk, you just confuse him.
User avatar
Camo
Straightened out
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:39 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by Camo »

Teddy Persico wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 am The government seems to be basing this belief just on the lists and money. Is there any actual evidence of his rank or are they just using this logic to deny him bail?
They clearly don't have a clue what his rank is. If they had anything pointing towards a specific rank they would have produced it at his bail hearing. I think he's at least a Captain too but there could be some other reason he had the list that we aren't aware of.
johnny_scootch
Full Patched
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by johnny_scootch »

Teddy Persico wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 am The government seems to be basing this belief just on the lists and money. Is there any actual evidence of his rank or are they just using this logic to deny him bail?

They aren't calling him a captain because they can't prove it but they can sure as shit allude to it in a letter to the judge explaining why he should deny esposito bail.
User avatar
SonnyBlackstein
Filthy Few
Posts: 7576
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

Don't give me your f***ing Manson lamps.
Cheech
Full Patched
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:42 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by Cheech »

Wiseguy wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:22 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:49 pm Thanks WG. Are transcripts avail?
The March 22, 2000 conversation:
Thomas Cafaro = Cafaro; Michael D'Urso = CW


CW: Let's just hope your friend don't leave, gonna be there.
CAFARO: Me, I believe, it's his if he wants it. And that's how I—
CW: He might not want it. But then again you know what, he's not gonna turn away because he ain't gonna subject himself to have listen to all of these fuckin' idiots — after what he knows what's right and wrong.
CAFARO: Well — then he may leave somebody there and talk to them.
CW: Right.
CAFARO: Like everybody else did.
CW: He can't leave his guys.
CAFARO: No.
CW: We'd all be running for the hills. [Pause]. See I didn't think there was any of that.
CAFARO: I can't believe they didn't make, when he had his, when he went in for the surgery and when he had the heat, I'm surprised they didn't pull him out then.
CW: Who's gonna pull him out? Who's gonna pull him?
CAFARO: [U/I]
CW: You gotta be around to actually do something like that, I mean? You know what's gonna happen?
CAFARO: How'd they put him in?
CW: What? You don't think your friend put him there?
CAFARO: Well, so they send him word. [U/I] put somebody else, who do you want?
CW: Yeah who do you want? Who's gonna take it? Who's gonna take it?
CAFARO: Somebody will do him a favor if they ask him.
CW: Chuck don't want it.
CAFARO: If the other guy asked him.
CW: You know fuckin' Dom don't want it.
CAFARO: No — but I said, uh.
CW: Ernie will take it.
CAFARO: Yeah. What do you call it?
CW: He wouldn't be bad there.
CAFARO: No—
CW: from what I hear about him.
CAFARO: You know who would have been good too, but he don't want it? Is Tony from Corona.
CW: Oh, he don't want it either?
CAFARO: Nah. He has a ton of money.
CW: Uh, forget it. [U/I] close with Mickey all these years. They use excuses. I gotta take care of Mickey, I gotta do this.
CAFARO: He would have been good.
CW: You know him good?
CAFARO: Yeah.
CW: He's respected.
CAFARO: Patty knows him well.
CW: He's acting right now?
CAFARO: Him? No. He walked. He gave everything up.
CW: He's still a skipper, huh?
CAFARO: He gave, he gave that up.
CW: Who the fuck do they?
CAFARO: They got his guy out there. Tommy Z's cousin stays with him.
CW: Rom?
CAFARO: Yeah.
CW: They put Rom there?
CAFARO: Yeah.
CW: Corne on?
CAFARO: That's what I heard.
CW: He finished [U/I]
CAFARO: Yeah.
CW: [U/I]
CAFARO: Well, yeah, exactly. But still, you know.
CW: Listen, everybody uses scapegoats, let's be realistic. But I don't agree with that, I gotta tell you the truth. I mean it works, but I don't agree with it.
CAFARO: Let me tell you something. He gave up all of his business. He gave up his bookmaking, shylocking, everything. He gave it to Rom. He gave it to him.
CW: Really?
CAFARO: He's so wealthy, real estate wise. He's got buildings; he's got property; he's got the restaurant. What the fuck does he need? And he's smart.
CW: You can't forget how you got it.
CAFARO: Well, I'm sure he does what he has to do for the old timers.
CW: Well, take a guy like that. Don't they take that as an insult that he doesn't want it? If you're needed, you're needed.
CAFARO: You don't know how he told him. We don't know what he told him. He may have had a legitimate you know?
CW: Sometimes you've gotta help this thing. Not everyone can run away from it. You gonna run away from it then hang your thing up and take it on the hop.
CAFARO: What I'm saying is, he may have said, I've got to do certain things, you know?
CAFARO: You wanna know something?
CW: [U/I] everything
CAFARO: Smart guys, you don't want them taking that position because eventually they get, they go and what are you gonna have? You see what's happening in all the other crews. They got amateurs.
CW: Yup. People gotta stay behind the scenes a little bit.
CAFARO: Oh, without a doubt. That's why all those years, nobody knew who Ben was. See, nobody knew who he was.
CW: No, huh.
CAFARO: Nobody.
CW: See Joe, Joe never wanted it.
CAFARO: Yeah?
CW: He said, I've got everyone's ear, what do I need it for?
CAFARO: Well, that's the same thing I'm saying. What do I need anything for? I just hang out with our friends.
CAFARO: Our friend, he's gonna look out for me.
CW: No doubt about it.


The June 14, 2000 conversation:
Thomas Cafaro = Cafaro; Michael D'Urso = CW

CAFARO: I used to laugh because there's a guy Joe CIA) construction. He was very close to (UI). He used to tell him look you got this business, let's put Tommy there. (UI) he used to tell him, no, Tommy's all right he's got enough. I used to tell him, Pal, Something I know I'm doing, you know, that maybe I forgot?
CW: Then what'd he say?
CAFARO: No, nothing. He said, Don't worry about it. And that was it. You know, then he got pinched. The kid Nicky, that young kid. Ton of fucking money. Me and the Old Timer, that I was with that night, we shake our heads. We can't believe. He says all these pieces of shit, (UI) this guy the money.
CW: It's not good. People start saying, what the fuck, did they need it for?
CAFARO: Well, now hopefully, you know, when he comes homes we'll get a couple of things going. Who knows?
CW: Does the old timer [Chucky Tuzzo] down there see him? Does he go see him at all?
CAFARO: No he can't, he can't go see him. He would love to. Think that's why. I vote for him.
CW: Whose he answer to? Does he go see Tony too?
CAFARO: No, they see him.
CW: They see him?
CAFARO: No. They go see him, you know. He could have been there. He turned it down.
CW: He don't look like he, he wanted it anyway.
CAFARO: They wanted him for a while. They've been on . . . He used to be around Tony all the time, he's on a lot of tapes with Tony.
CW: He's no flashy guy either.
CAFARO: He used to be some fucking, you know—dapper
CW: Oh
CAFARO: He used to be, remember the old man Mickey, Generoso, Mickey Dimino?
CW: No.
CAFARO: That was the meeting with him. They used to come every day. I used to tell them, you look like the Bobsey twins.
CW: He's got cancer too.
CAFARO: You know, he stays behind the scenes. You know, tries to help him out. He was coaching him for a while, you know. If he would have listened, if Farby would have listened to him, he would never had a problem.
CW: With what?
CAFARO: When he was going on meets and stuff, they were gonna set it up. We'll bring you. My guys will bring you. Three, four cars. One guy picked him up, bring him to another spot. You know, that's how that guy is. When you go to a meeting, you know, you gotta 7:00 appointment. They start out three in the afternoon.
CW: Whose this?
CAFARO: The old timer.
CW: Yeah.
CAFARO: Start out three in the afternoon. One guy picks him up, brings him here. He stays there. Then another guy takes him here. By the time he get's over there, he went from here to here to here to here to there. By then, they got to know if somebody's — you know. That's how he is. I never call him. We never talk to each other on the phone. I left him that night. He knows the next month I'll see him this date, at this time. If I'm not there, something's wrong.
CW: Well what if you got an emergency?
CAFARO: If I got one? Well, I call somebody. (UI) He's got no more beeper.
CW: Got a phone?
CAFARO: He's a hundred percent for our friend. A million percent for him.
[PAUSE]
CW: He's just a skipper right? He used to be a skipper right?
CAFARO: He's got a good. . . . They've got a good bunch of guys. They've got a solid . . .
CW: Who?
CAFARO: The old timer. He's got Tough Tony Corona.
CW: He's got em?
CAFARO: Rom
CAFARO: Yeah. They, you know. They're all with him. They've got Rom. They got Tough Tony, they got this kid Mikey the Blonde.
CW: Good guys?
CAFARO: Oh yea, They're smart. (UI)
CAFARO: I know Rom like that.
CW: Rom's all right.
CAFARO: I know him like that. I met him twice.
CW: He's at the fucking track everyday.
CAFARO: Tony came home from prison, wanted nothing to do with it anymore. He gave everything away. (UI) Property.
CW: Who does?
CAFARO: Tony
CW: Rom, Rom. He's a friendly guy, you know. He's just, he's not as polished as Tony is.
CAFARO: No. No, Can't compare them. Night and day, night and day.
CAFARO: See Tommy Z. You met Tommy Z, right? Tommy LaRusso's cousin.
CW: Right
CAFARO: That's how I met Tommy Z. I met him down at the El Dorado.
CW: Does Rom know Patty?
CAFARO: Patty used to go out there when my father was around. My father was close to him. Every Friday night, he used to go out.
CW: They must have just straightened Rom out the last. . . .
CAFARO: No, for years.
CW: Tony needed that.
CAFARO: He could have had it.
CW: You can't fucking . . .
CAFARO: He could have had it. He didn't want it.
CAFARO: He turned it down.
CW: Know what's gonna happen, pretty soon, they're gonna start telling people you have to take it. Or otherwise . . .
CAFARO: Usually no one refuses it. Smart people refuse,
CW: You know what I mean?
CAFARO: Tony. They get along good. He does a lot for him. Helps him with his case. Helping him out.
CW: Tony's got a lot of (UI).
CAFARO: He loves that restaurant — I mean he really works there.
CW: Oh Yeah.
CAFARO: He fucking walks around. We were in there one night. He walked by the table. I mean, You know, he came to sit with us later on. Every fucking waiter, he kicked them in the leg because there was a chair backed up against the wall, and it was scratching the thing. He buys a certain kind of meat, it's gotta be cut a certain way.

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20120105b14
id like to see one of the smart guys break this down
Salude!
russ123_
Associate
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:48 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by russ123_ »

Nice find
newera_212
Full Patched
Posts: 1832
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by newera_212 »

Cheech wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:01 am

id like to see one of the smart guys break this down
I'm not that smart but there's some pretty clear things we can pull from this.

The old timer = Generoso?

One thing that came out of this convo I could tell was that Tuzzo and Federici were close, and both of them were close with Generoso. Obviously Federici stepped away from the day to day of running his rackets and gave everything to Rom.

I think Thomas Cafaro is talking about how there's no need for him to be made because he's friends with the right people, and they also referenced how Joe Zito felt the same way about taking a higher position back in the day.

D'Urso "felt" (I say that in quotes because he could have been steering the convo since he was taping it) that it wasn't right for guys to turn down positions, while Cafaro said you want your best guys staying away from being out front. The "all amateurs" quote was interesting because it sounded like they were purposely putting people in Captains positions that shouldn't have been there, while the smarter guys were in those crews giving advice behind the scenes
Cheech
Full Patched
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:42 am

Re: Genovese Bust Today 1/10

Post by Cheech »

newera_212 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:56 am
Cheech wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:01 am

id like to see one of the smart guys break this down
I'm not that smart but there's some pretty clear things we can pull from this.

The old timer = Generoso?

One thing that came out of this convo I could tell was that Tuzzo and Federici were close, and both of them were close with Generoso. Obviously Federici stepped away from the day to day of running his rackets and gave everything to Rom.

I think Thomas Cafaro is talking about how there's no need for him to be made because he's friends with the right people, and they also referenced how Joe Zito felt the same way about taking a higher position back in the day.

D'Urso "felt" (I say that in quotes because he could have been steering the convo since he was taping it) that it wasn't right for guys to turn down positions, while Cafaro said you want your best guys staying away from being out front. The "all amateurs" quote was interesting because it sounded like they were purposely putting people in Captains positions that shouldn't have been there, while the smarter guys were in those crews giving advice behind the scenes
I thought old timer = Tuzzo but u may be right. Ya some are obvious as you pointed out.
Salude!
Post Reply