Bonanno Info (1980s - 2000s)

[Wiseguy]

That's if you go with the max figures of the Bonannos getting as high as 150 members and the low end of some estimates putting the Gambinos at 150-200. Frankly, I think those estimates listed above for Lino, Vitale, and Coppa are absurd and an obvious exaggeration. They don't match up with other figures they themselves gave and are larger than even the biggest numbers put out by law enforcement and journalists. Sorry, I don't buy they found that many fake names in the phone book.

As I mentioned in that thread before, the 2001 Lino list had every member of the family (including himself) he wasn't allowed to associate with. There were 111 names. In 2003, Frank Lino testified to there being 12 captains and about 100 soldiers. Wiretaps in the 2006 case put the family as having less than 100 soldiers. You also have to figure in 15 members who flipped over that time the family technically isn't allowed to replace until they died. Plus at least one member who was killed that they aren't allowed to replace at all if they killed him.

Meanwhile most estimates, including the 2010 Danny Marino case and another Gambino case press release in 2011, put the family at around 200 members. As I keep saying, don't put too much stock in that 2001 article citing 130 members for the Gambinos. Just the year before, in 2000, there were 192 members cited in the Joseph Isgro case. Over the past decade I've seen some figures for the Gambinos - 160, 175, 180, 185 - which I imagine could happen over time depending on how quick the family wants to replace members who have died. But this idea that the Bonannos are close, either in size or power, to the Gambinos is as untrue to me as when people on the forums talk about the Luccheses like they are closer to the Genovese or Gambinos than they are the other two smaller families.

[Pogo The Clown]

You have the Boss, UnderBoss and two ruling panel members giving those numbers. What more do you want? They can't all be over exaggerating.


Pogo

[Hailbritain]

You have the Boss, UnderBoss and two ruling panel members giving those numbers. What more do you want? They can't all be over exaggerating.


Pogo

I agree pogo , these guys know . End of story , I think they would know more than the Feds

[B.]

As I mentioned in that thread before, the 2001 Lino list had every member of the family (including himself) he wasn't allowed to associate with. There were 111 names. In 2003, Frank Lino testified to there being 12 captains and about 100 soldiers. Wiretaps in the 2006 case put the family as having less than 100 soldiers. You also have to figure in 15 members who flipped over that time the family technically isn't allowed to replace until they died. Plus at least one member who was killed that they aren't allowed to replace at all if they killed him.

Lino had been in prison since the late 90s when he flipped, so he may not have had the most current numbers.

I agree you have to consider murdered / flipped members that can't be replaced, but we still don't know how those really affect the cap. We also don't know if the two members they allow for Christmas are in addition to members who replace deceased members or if the same rules still apply.

[Pogo The Clown]

These numbers would also be before all those members flipped so they wouldn't affect the overall numbers.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Obviously those figures are supposed to be for whenever the family hit its peak size under Massino (of course not meaning their all time peak size decades before). That would have likely been in the early to mid 2000's before the indictments and defections started coming. Regardless of their positions, I figure if those figures don't exactly match up with other information they've got to be questioned.

What Lino figures should we go with? 15 captains and 120-150 soldiers or a dozen captains and 100 soldiers? Those figures for Massino and Vitale (again, probably early to mid 2000's) are both around 160-170? How does that match up with the 111 known members in 2001 (Robert Lino no contact list) or there being less than 100 soldiers (Vinny Basciano wiretaps) just 5 years later in 2006?

You also have to consider that the family had to get approval for every new member from the other families by submitting a list of the dead ones next to the names they were replacing. When you consider the family was down to around 100 members in the early 1990s, even with some cheating how does the family slip in 50, 60, 70 unaccounted for members? Taking all available info into account, it's more believable there was some exaggeration by some of those guys.

[B.]

You can add 19 to 20 Montreal members to whatever the lowball number is. From what JD has said, it seems Massino at the very least was factoring them into the higher numbers.

[Pogo The Clown]

How does that match up with the 111 known members in 2001 (Robert Lino no contact list) or there being less than 100 soldiers (Vinny Basciano wiretaps) just 5 years later in 2006?

Well we know that the 111 figure (if it even was a list of only members and every member) was too low since JD listed over 120 members who were IDed as members for this period and that was without counting the Montreal members.


I don't recall the Basciano wiretap. What context was it in? Was it counting members in prison because by 2006 a large chunk of the family was in prison. By then several members had also flipped.


Pogo

[AlexfromSouth]

So in the hayday the Bonanno fam had about 200 made men, 190?

[Lupara]

And 180 members according to Sciacca in the mid-1960s. If 190 is actually the cap, you have to wonder why not 200 or a more obvious number.

Thanks for sharing this.

The same can be said about the somewhat weird number cap given by D'Arco. I mean, the Colombos were allowed to have like 5-10 soldiers more than the Bonannos and Luccheses? What's that about?

Like often, the truth is probably somwhere in the middle with like 120 members in New York and 20 in Montreal is 140 total, which is close to the often quoted 150 members.

However, it's intriguing how Massino's numbers correspond with Sciaccia's. Both bosses of the family who are supposed to be aware of their numbers. And 180 members in the 1960s sounds quite believable.

[Wiseguy]

How does that match up with the 111 known members in 2001 (Robert Lino no contact list) or there being less than 100 soldiers (Vinny Basciano wiretaps) just 5 years later in 2006?

Well we know that the 111 figure (if it even was a list of only members and every member) was too low since JD listed over 120 members who were IDed as members for this period and that was without counting the Montreal members.


I don't recall the Basciano wiretap. What context was it in? Was it counting members in prison because by 2006 a large chunk of the family was in prison. By then several members had also flipped.


Pogo

Here's the excerpt from the USA Today article...


"Wiretap transcripts filed in the Basciano case indicate that the Bonannos have fewer than 100 soldiers, about half their historical strength. Jim Margolin, spokesman for the FBI in New York City, says the other four families are similarly afflicted."

And 180 members according to Sciacca in the mid-1960s. If 190 is actually the cap, you have to wonder why not 200 or a more obvious number.

Thanks for sharing this.

The same can be said about the somewhat weird number cap given by D'Arco. I mean, the Colombos were allowed to have like 5-10 soldiers more than the Bonannos and Luccheses? What's that about?

Like often, the truth is probably somwhere in the middle with like 120 members in New York and 20 in Montreal is 140 total, which is close to the often quoted 150 members.

However, it's intriguing how Massino's numbers correspond with Sciaccia's. Both bosses of the family who are supposed to be aware of their numbers. And 180 members in the 1960s sounds quite believable.

If we're talking in the 1960's, I find those numbers believable. But but not 35 or 40 years later.

[LcnBios]

.

[B.]

Re Joe Beans, there's an article online about the Antico case that mentions "Bonanno family figure 'Joe Beans' Campanella". It's on the SI Live news site. Also an obituary for someone with that name and nickname from 2007. Only non-google info I've seen is some Gambinos meeting with a 'Beansy Campanale' in Fall 1986.

You may have seen this since you mentioned the Antico case, but this is from a court transcript of the Antico case:

You will hear from a witness by the name of Stefan
10 Cicale, who, the government will come in and say, was a dealer
11 at the gambling club. And their own witness will tell you
12 that the gambling club was owned by a guy by the name of
13 Joseph Campanella. I'm sure there will be a picture of him
14 because he's supposedly connected too.
15 So Joseph Campanella owns the club and he is
16 assisted in running the club by Mr. Antico's brother Dee Dee.
17 And that's it. And the government's going to tell you because
18 it's his brother, because it's Dee Dee Antico, well, that must
19 mean, because everything gets kicked up, that we're going to
20 hold him accountable for the gambling club.
21 They don't have any evidence of that. They want you
22 to believe that, but no evidence. And they want you to think
23 that Angelo "Dee Dee" Antico can't run a gambling club with
24 Joe "Beansie" Campanella himself, when of course he can. It's
25 their club. It's not his club. It's not his gambling club.

[CabriniGreen]

How come the info is blank? Only in a PM?

[CabriniGreen]

On the first page I mean.... Just wondering...