Extortion 2022

[Ivan]

Figured if the mob wanted to really put the fear of god into people they would just make victims quietly disappear forever, like what happened with Ralph Coppola. Not sure if this is logistically possible in this day and age though.

There are too many snitches, and forensic science is too advanced for that.

Yeah you're probably right. But assuming that everyone involved in making someone vanished wasn't a rat, how would they prove a murder using forensic science without a body? (Not doubting you, I'm just curious.)

Anyway, so back to the extortion question, if you borrowed 100 grand from a mob loanshark and then when he came to collect said "Nah bro not feelin' it, get lost or I'ma call the feds" what would they be able to do, if they can't threaten violence?

[Wiseguy]

Yeah you're probably right. But assuming that everyone involved in making someone vanished wasn't a rat, how would they prove a murder using forensic science without a body? (Not doubting you, I'm just curious.)

Anyway, so back to the extortion question, if you borrowed 100 grand from a mob loanshark and then when he came to collect said "Nah bro not feelin' it, get lost or I'ma call the feds" what would they be able to do, if they can't threaten violence?

I don't see any mob guy, even today, walking away from $100,000. If someone tells him to get lost, they're going to the hospital at the very least. Prison or no prison.

As far as murder goes, a while back chin posted a list of Lucchese family murders from 1980 forward. There were 25 murders in the 1980s. 28 murders in the 1990s. And only 8 murders over the next 20 years after that. Puts things in perspective.

That said, while there has certainly been a lull over the past decade, 10 years before that you had Meldish, Stagno (wounded), DiPietro, Montagna, Donavan, Castellano, Maniscalco, Seccifico, Antonelli, DeCicco (wounded), Mazzotta, Ricci, McKelvey, Pizzolo, Westerman, Bruno, Casasanto, Mazzotta, DeVito, and Dadabo (wounded).

Does anyone really think we won't see a mob hit again? C'mon.

[Ivan]

That said, while there has certainly been a lull over the past decade, 10 years before that you had Meldish, Stagno (wounded), DiPietro, Montagna, Donavan, Castellano, Maniscalco, Seccifico, Antonelli, DeCicco (wounded), Mazzotta, Ricci, McKelvey, Pizzolo, Westerman, Bruno, Casasanto, Mazzotta, DeVito, and Dadabo (wounded).

Does anyone really think we won't see a mob hit again? C'mon.

The guys running it now were all 20~50 or so and street guys back in the 80s and 90s when the mob was still dropping bodies right and left. They're the same bunch of murderers (as in, the same specific individuals) they were then.

That said, when the guys born before like 1970 start to fade from the scene I think the mob will have a very different character than what we're used to. (I'm obsessed with this coming "demographic winter" they're facing. Will be fascinating to watch.)

[PolackTony]

Figured if the mob wanted to really put the fear of god into people they would just make victims quietly disappear forever, like what happened with Ralph Coppola. Not sure if this is logistically possible in this day and age though.

In Chicago you had Tony Zizzo in 2006 and Tony Catalano in 2009. Both disappeared without a trace, and not ancient history.

[CabriniGreen]

The extortion charges you usually see in mob cases are a little more convoluted than the straight up shakedown. For example, the extortion of ILA workers was often more along the lines of bribes for job placement, promotions, etc. The extortion of waste companies in the Franco case involved affiliated companies paying the mob not only for protection but for business advantage as well. Sometimes its hard to tell where the line is but often the "extortion victims" are otherwise willing participants in a lot of cases. You see this in the construction rackets all the time. A restaurant may be forced to buy from a mob food or beverage wholesaler. The mob will use extortionate tactics in otherwise legitimate businesses to get an edge.

I've always loved this passage from Gommorah, it's like there's extortion, the crude way, and extortion in terms of business, which benefits both sides. Gravano went on about it a little in his book. About how the contractors were benefiting too, and were just as greedy and rapacious.


Only beggar clans inept at business and desperate to survive still practice the kind of monthly extortions seen in Nanni Loy’s film Mi manda Picone, or the door-to-door rounds at Christmas, Easter, and on August 15.

This is the kind of thing Francesco Palmeri, and I think the Detroit Sicilian, one of those D' Anna brothers got jammed up with. Just demanding money from some restaurateur. Or like Montagna and Borselino. And like the Bovnaventre quote, they run straight to the cops.


It's not like in Sicily, where the mob bosses actually in many cases act as a surrogate court, arbitrating disputes that otherwise would go through the jucial system. Talvaruso had someone come to him over a theft. He hunted the perpetrators down and had them killed. This is what the police are supposed to do, ( not murder, lol) . A woman came to Guttadauro to solve a 16 million dollar issue with a bank. Imagine that in the States, someone having a multi- million dollar dispute with CHASE, and instead of suing, they go to the local caporegime in some coffeshop? Only in Italy will you see this type of power. Here you gotta do business.

Everything has changed. The Nuvoletta clan of Marano, on the northern outskirts of Naples, set up a more efficient extortion racket based on reciprocal advantage and the taxing of supplies.


The companies Peppe Gala handled were, in fact, guaranteed representation throughout his territory as well as a high number of orders. And retailers and supermarkets were more than happy to deal with him since he could pressure suppliers into offering bigger discounts. Being a System man, Showman also controlled transportation, which meant he could ensure favorable prices and prompt delivery. Products “adopted” by the clans are not imposed through intimidation but rather by means of advantageous pricing. The concerns Gala represented declared they had been victims of the Camorra racket and had had to submit to the diktat of the clans. Yet data from Confcommercio—the Italian business confederation—reveals that from 1998 to 2003 the companies that turned to Gala experienced a 40 to 80 percent increase in annual sales.

But you need a corporate structure to pull this off. You need to be a businessman already.

[CabriniGreen]

The extortion charges you usually see in mob cases are a little more convoluted than the straight up shakedown. For example, the extortion of ILA workers was often more along the lines of bribes for job placement, promotions, etc. The extortion of waste companies in the Franco case involved affiliated companies paying the mob not only for protection but for business advantage as well. Sometimes its hard to tell where the line is but often the "extortion victims" are otherwise willing participants in a lot of cases. You see this in the construction rackets all the time. A restaurant may be forced to buy from a mob food or beverage wholesaler. The mob will use extortionate tactics in otherwise legitimate businesses to get an edge.

I've always loved this passage from Gommorah, it's like there's extortion, the crude way, and extortion in terms of business, which benefits both sides. Gravano went on about it a little in his book. About how the contractors were benefiting too, and were just as greedy and rapacious.


Only beggar clans inept at business and desperate to survive still practice the kind of monthly extortions seen in Nanni Loy’s film Mi manda Picone, or the door-to-door rounds at Christmas, Easter, and on August 15.

This is the kind of thing Francesco Palmeri, and I think the Detroit Sicilian, one of those D' Anna brothers got jammed up with. Just demanding money from some restaurateur. Or like Montagna and Borselino. And like the Bovnaventre quote, they run straight to the cops.


It's not like in Sicily, where the mob bosses actually in many cases act as a surrogate court, arbitrating disputes that otherwise would go through the jucial system. Talvaruso had someone come to him over a theft. He hunted the perpetrators down and had them killed. This is what the police are supposed to do, ( not murder, lol) . A woman came to Guttadauro to solve a 16 million dollar issue with a bank. Imagine that in the States, someone having a multi- million dollar dispute with CHASE, and instead of suing, they go to the local caporegime in some coffeshop? Only in Italy will you see this type of power. Here you gotta do business.

Everything has changed. The Nuvoletta clan of Marano, on the northern outskirts of Naples, set up a more efficient extortion racket based on reciprocal advantage and the taxing of supplies.


The companies Peppe Gala handled were, in fact, guaranteed representation throughout his territory as well as a high number of orders. And retailers and supermarkets were more than happy to deal with him since he could pressure suppliers into offering bigger discounts. Being a System man, Showman also controlled transportation, which meant he could ensure favorable prices and prompt delivery. Products “adopted” by the clans are not imposed through intimidation but rather by means of advantageous pricing. The concerns Gala represented declared they had been victims of the Camorra racket and had had to submit to the diktat of the clans. Yet data from Confcommercio—the Italian business confederation—reveals that from 1998 to 2003 the companies that turned to Gala experienced a 40 to 80 percent increase in annual sales.

But you need a corporate structure to pull this off. You need to be a businessman already.

In a nutshell, it's the difference between walking up to a guy, putting a gun to his head, and saying " Gimme a hundred dollars, or else". Versus walking up to a guy, putting a gun to his head, and saying," put this 50 dollars in your pocket, or else".

[Ivan]

Figured if the mob wanted to really put the fear of god into people they would just make victims quietly disappear forever, like what happened with Ralph Coppola. Not sure if this is logistically possible in this day and age though.

In Chicago you had Tony Zizzo in 2006 and Tony Catalano in 2009. Both disappeared without a trace, and not ancient history.

Yeah, exactly. Like, has forensics advanced so much that the Zizzo thing couldn't happen now?

[Newyorkempire]

2022 American LCN doesn't murder people anymore so how is it that the are able to extort business's, demand tribute, or even collect debts without the threat of real violence? why wouldn’t a guy into them for money just basically tell them to go fuck themselves?

Who said they dont and are not planning on murdering people anymore. You?

The last mob murder was in 2013 which was an anomaly looking at the past 20 years and it resulted in the entire admin of the family going to prison for life, it’s pretty common knowledge that LCN does not kill anymore.

Logic is not his strong suit.


Pogo

Youre the man Logo. Nothing to add but your weak feeble attempts at jokes. Would get smashed in a real life encounter and you know it.

You're the man Rooster. Nothing to add but your weak feeble attempts to defend and hype up the mob. Would get smashed in a real life encounter and you know it.


Pogo

Nothing to hype up. No need. Its basic. This stuffs easy for me. You strain just to paraphrase the articles you rely on. For me, this is like floating on a raft in the pool with with a drink in my hand. For you, its like being constipated trying to squeeze a little pebble out. Ive been right before and ill be right again. And after I am again...Youll still be leaving your name at the end of a post like someone gives a shit its you.

[Pogo The Clown]

As usual Rooster replies with little more than gibberish.


Pogo

[newera_212]

Weren't they discussing finding the winner of the TV show Survivor and sticking a gun in his face, demanding a share of the $1,000,000 prize?

[Newyorkempire]

As usual Rooster replies with little more than gibberish.


Pogo

As usual, youre still a douche. Waiting for an article to paraphrase a phrase from it. Now what? Round 500 and you still think youre an author of some sort.

Rooster

[Wiseguy]

I've always loved this passage from Gommorah, it's like there's extortion, the crude way, and extortion in terms of business, which benefits both sides. Gravano went on about it a little in his book. About how the contractors were benefiting too, and were just as greedy and rapacious.


Only beggar clans inept at business and desperate to survive still practice the kind of monthly extortions seen in Nanni Loy’s film Mi manda Picone, or the door-to-door rounds at Christmas, Easter, and on August 15.

This is the kind of thing Francesco Palmeri, and I think the Detroit Sicilian, one of those D' Anna brothers got jammed up with. Just demanding money from some restaurateur. Or like Montagna and Borselino. And like the Bovnaventre quote, they run straight to the cops.


It's not like in Sicily, where the mob bosses actually in many cases act as a surrogate court, arbitrating disputes that otherwise would go through the jucial system. Talvaruso had someone come to him over a theft. He hunted the perpetrators down and had them killed. This is what the police are supposed to do, ( not murder, lol) . A woman came to Guttadauro to solve a 16 million dollar issue with a bank. Imagine that in the States, someone having a multi- million dollar dispute with CHASE, and instead of suing, they go to the local caporegime in some coffeshop? Only in Italy will you see this type of power. Here you gotta do business.

Everything has changed. The Nuvoletta clan of Marano, on the northern outskirts of Naples, set up a more efficient extortion racket based on reciprocal advantage and the taxing of supplies.


The companies Peppe Gala handled were, in fact, guaranteed representation throughout his territory as well as a high number of orders. And retailers and supermarkets were more than happy to deal with him since he could pressure suppliers into offering bigger discounts. Being a System man, Showman also controlled transportation, which meant he could ensure favorable prices and prompt delivery. Products “adopted” by the clans are not imposed through intimidation but rather by means of advantageous pricing. The concerns Gala represented declared they had been victims of the Camorra racket and had had to submit to the diktat of the clans. Yet data from Confcommercio—the Italian business confederation—reveals that from 1998 to 2003 the companies that turned to Gala experienced a 40 to 80 percent increase in annual sales.

But you need a corporate structure to pull this off. You need to be a businessman already.

Of course, one of the classic examples of the more sophisticated extortion was the garbage racket. You're not walking in and saying, "Pay me X amount a week or your windows get broken." Businesses in NYC needed garbage pick up. And the mob provided the service. Just at a considerably inflated cost.

[Adam]

The extortion charges you usually see in mob cases are a little more convoluted than the straight up shakedown. For example, the extortion of ILA workers was often more along the lines of bribes for job placement, promotions, etc. The extortion of waste companies in the Franco case involved affiliated companies paying the mob not only for protection but for business advantage as well. Sometimes its hard to tell where the line is but often the "extortion victims" are otherwise willing participants in a lot of cases. You see this in the construction rackets all the time. A restaurant may be forced to buy from a mob food or beverage wholesaler. The mob will use extortionate tactics in otherwise legitimate businesses to get an edge.

I've always loved this passage from Gommorah, it's like there's extortion, the crude way, and extortion in terms of business, which benefits both sides. Gravano went on about it a little in his book. About how the contractors were benefiting too, and were just as greedy and rapacious.


Only beggar clans inept at business and desperate to survive still practice the kind of monthly extortions seen in Nanni Loy’s film Mi manda Picone, or the door-to-door rounds at Christmas, Easter, and on August 15.

This is the kind of thing Francesco Palmeri, and I think the Detroit Sicilian, one of those D' Anna brothers got jammed up with. Just demanding money from some restaurateur. Or like Montagna and Borselino. And like the Bovnaventre quote, they run straight to the cops.


It's not like in Sicily, where the mob bosses actually in many cases act as a surrogate court, arbitrating disputes that otherwise would go through the jucial system. Talvaruso had someone come to him over a theft. He hunted the perpetrators down and had them killed. This is what the police are supposed to do, ( not murder, lol) . A woman came to Guttadauro to solve a 16 million dollar issue with a bank. Imagine that in the States, someone having a multi- million dollar dispute with CHASE, and instead of suing, they go to the local caporegime in some coffeshop? Only in Italy will you see this type of power. Here you gotta do business.

Everything has changed. The Nuvoletta clan of Marano, on the northern outskirts of Naples, set up a more efficient extortion racket based on reciprocal advantage and the taxing of supplies.


The companies Peppe Gala handled were, in fact, guaranteed representation throughout his territory as well as a high number of orders. And retailers and supermarkets were more than happy to deal with him since he could pressure suppliers into offering bigger discounts. Being a System man, Showman also controlled transportation, which meant he could ensure favorable prices and prompt delivery. Products “adopted” by the clans are not imposed through intimidation but rather by means of advantageous pricing. The concerns Gala represented declared they had been victims of the Camorra racket and had had to submit to the diktat of the clans. Yet data from Confcommercio—the Italian business confederation—reveals that from 1998 to 2003 the companies that turned to Gala experienced a 40 to 80 percent increase in annual sales.

But you need a corporate structure to pull this off. You need to be a businessman already.

Just to be fair, I don't think the D'Anna's in Detroit were looking for an extortion payment. It was more an argument between competing restaurants and their entitlement that led them to act like beggar people who only know how to act in the crude way. Just for the record. They're still garbage beggar people but I don't think they were collecting some kind of payment. They just got super pissed and thought they could do whatever they wanted.

[Tonyd621]

Regarding the D'anna brothers, is it a money thing, like they need it or a pride thing, or more of a influential thing like hey if they don't ppl other think they don't have to

[Ivan]

Figured if the mob wanted to really put the fear of god into people they would just make victims quietly disappear forever, like what happened with Ralph Coppola. Not sure if this is logistically possible in this day and age though.

In Chicago you had Tony Zizzo in 2006 and Tony Catalano in 2009. Both disappeared without a trace, and not ancient history.

Right. So... has "forensic science" advanced so much since 2009 that no one could be disappeared like Zizzo and Catalano? I'm skeptical.

I think these guys still have the mystique of violence hanging over them. As someone on here said (think it was pizzaboy/East Bronx), "Even if they only kill one guy every five years, no one wants to be that guy."

So Tony how do you think the Outfit went about making guys fall off the face of the earth in the 21st century? Probably just quietly buried them somewhere remote using guys whose trustworthiness was beyond question, I guess?