The "Associates" Thread

[B.]

I agree with many of the points made already.

An issue with this subject is the word "associate". I don't know when the mafia started using it (or its Italian equivalent) but my assumption is it was an LE / outsider term the mafia started using themselves like they have with other terms. When we hear "associate" it sounds like an unimportant person which distracts from how varied an "associate" can be.

I'd be interested in knowing when this term became popular within the mob. When Joe Bonanno talks about how Mimi Sabella should have checked to see who Bonanno was on record with, Bonanno says he was "with Maranzano". Still today that is the most common language members use to describe an associate on record.

"Associate" is treated like a measurable rank within the top-down structure of the mafia but it's not that simple. The only formality involved is someone communicating that the associate is "with" a member or a "friend of mine". It could be a guy who is with the crew every day or someone the member sees once a year. The associate isn't necessarily an active part of the top-down chain of command while in other cases he is definitely part of it. Some associates actively report to a member while others only interact with the member in a mafia context when they need representation.

This is how I define an associate:

- A non-member who can go to a specific member for assistance or representation.

The above encompasses full-on criminals, random legitimate businessmen, Italians being recruited for membership, non-Italians, friends, family, neighbors, people with immense influence/power as well as total nobodies.

The degree of formality involved with putting someone on record is a big question. We have examples of made members registering associates with their captain or even the underboss (Brasco) but it doesn't seem like this is a rule down the board, as we have examples where all a member has to do is claim someone is "with" him and that is respected. Maybe it depends on the importance/activity of the associate or whether there's a question of who the associate belongs to (i.e. Ruggiero registered Brasco with Marangello in case Mirra or the Colombos tried to claim him, which Mirra did try to do later). If Brasco was Ruggiero's nephew or something there may have been no need to register him as it would be obvious who he was "with" from the beginning and well-known on the street.

[B.]

An interesting situation is stock swindler Sal Romano. He was essentially an associate of Gambino member John Gammarano but Gammarano never formally put him on record. Romano said Gammarano did this on purpose to hide him from the Family. When Johnny G went to prison he tried to have one of his relatives service Romano but Romano knew this was a bad arrangement as the relative couldn't formally represent him and it placed him (Romano) in a position to be muscled by other Families.

As a result, Romano was able to arrange a meeting with Michael DiLeonardo who was servicing Gammarano's people (I think Michael was Johnny G's captain) and was placed on record with DiLeonardo. If Johnny G had formally registered Romano before he went to prison this wouldn't have happened, but it tells you that simply associating with someone is not always enough to formally register an associate and Gammarano clearly violated protocol by not registering his relationship to Romano. As a result, Gammarano had no argument.

Points to consider:

- Gammarano had a poor reputation in the Family, while DiLeonardo was a favorite of the leadership. If Gammarano was more popular with the leadership he may have been in a better position to claim Romano. If he had been on the street and not in prison when the issue came to a head he also may have been able to make a better claim.

- Romano said someone from another Family recommended he try and get on record with DiLeonardo as Michael would treat him very well, so Romano was actively seeking to go with DiLeonardo. Had Romano wanted to stay with Gammarano it's possible he and Gammarano could have come up with a story to keep Romano with him, as it's not uncommon for a member to claim an associate retroactively and have it be respected. This is what Tony Mirra was trying to do but like the Johnny G situation he was unpopular, never formally registered Brasco, and the other people claiming Brasco were riding high in the Family. Like Romano preferring to go with DiLeonardo, Brasco preferred Ruggiero over Mirra.

- Romano was involved in lucrative and competitive mafia stock scams that generated immense wealth. He said he was brushing up against many other mafia figures trying to get their claws into stocks which is why he was so concerend when Gammarano went to jail and left him unrepresented. If Romano was a random baker who needed representation only rarely the whole thing may have been a non-issue.

[CabriniGreen]

Considering a statement like this...

"Sergio Gucciardi , a native of Sciacca, a loyalist of Dimino".... a Sicilian mafia guy in NY....

What is he? 1st tier associate? Or something else?

[B.]

Sicilian mafia members are a good example. Made in Sicily and different sources say different things about US Families recognizing their membership (some definitely do), but unless they transfer they have to be on record with an NYC Family like an associate.

They're made members but in terms of the US power structure they are associates and it's up to the Family and members whether to recognize them. I don't think they really fit into these tiers given how unique their position is and a lot of it depends on the situation. There's no way John Gambino saw his brother as a non-equal just because he was made in Sicily, but as we know John Gotti said he couldn't formally represent Rosario because of it.

It's sort of like proposed members. Before the books opened there was an informant in the mid-1970s who said Sonny Indelicato was proposed for membership but already afforded the status/reputation of a member. Indelicato was on record with the boss Rastelli and obviously a force to be reckoned with but he wasn't a member yet -- is someone in that position comparable to super-associates like Joe Watts or the Chicago guys? He will be made later so we know he's destined going to take an official rank in the Family but when an Italian associate isn't made yet we have a tendency to downplay his influence.

There are also Italian associates who never get made for whatever reason but are highly regarded and influential. Because they're Italian and never got made we place them low on the pecking order but some of them no doubt could be seen as first tier associates.

[B.]

Meyer Lansky has been covered so much I have a tendency to avoid him but he really was a perfect example of how high the ceiling can be for first tier associates and when you look at him from a mafia point of view his role is fascinating.

- Genovese researchers can correct me, but from what I understand he was later on record with Jimmy Alo. I assume he was direct with Luciano in the 1920/30s.

- Didn't just have his own network of associates in NYC and Florida but across the entire country, with some sources saying he presided over a loose-knit "organization" of Jewish guys around the US.

- Tony Accardo referred to him as an "avugad" for the Jews, indicating that while Lansky was of course not made and not a member of the Commission he was like the unofficial rappresentante of a non-mafia group within the mafia network. We see this on a smaller scale in Chicago with guys like Humphreys and Alex as well as Joe Watts, who was asked to represent the Westies (themselves on record with the Gambinos like Watts).

- The early garment industry informant said Lansky had more power and influence in the industry than Tommy Lucchese. This is obviously just his point of view but there's no question Lansky was an extaordinate power there and deserves to be mentioned in the same conversation as Lucchese.

If you have a limited understanding of the formalities you might look at Lansky on paper and think "He was just an associate of Jimmy Alo?" but there is no "just". He's an associate because he's on record with a Cosa Nostra Family. Beyond that the sky's the limit and Lansky is the best example we have of how high someone can go despite not being a member.

Bonanno's story about Luciano asking to bring Lansky to the national meeting in 1931 and Bonanno agreeing but saying he has to wait outside isn't that much different from what DeRose said about the non-Italian Chicago associates having to wait outside of the induction ceremony but still celebrating with them afterward. When a non-Italian associate is part of these upper tiers there's no attempt to hide anything from them even though they can't participate in the formalities. Same thing applies to guys like Sonny Red before he was made where he's treated like an insider but can't be an official participant in everything.

[B.]

This has been posted before but is relevant here:



- I'm curious about the term "avvicinati". Google Translate says it literally means "come closer" but I'm guessing there's some cross-language context I'm missing. However the meaning is pretty intuitive, referring to non-members who are allowed to be "closer" to the organization.

- While "avvicinati" is obviously a term for associates in the Sicilian mafia, it's not explained whether this is used to describe all associates or is a different class of associate. The references above indicate there are fewer "avvicinati" with a given Family than even the membership, which makes it extremely unlikely this refers to everyone associated with a Sicilian Family (they have entire villages of associates).

- My guess is "avvicinati" are either proposed members or associates being groomed for membership as the numbers would make sense. A Family like Carini who as mentioned has 16 members and 9 "avvicinati" fits this idea, that they are doing just enough active recruiting to maintain their numbers. If "avvicinati" doesn't refer to proposed members or recruits I've got no idea what the distinction would be between "avvicinati" and other people who are "with" a Sicilian Family.

This is kind of a tangent, but it makes me think of Valachi telling the FBI in an early interview how proposed members are called "propaus" (ph). Seems pretty clear he was saying "proposto". No shocker if they used the Italian equivalent but I'm always interested in how the language has changes vs. stayed the same, like the thread about Melchiorre Allegra saying made members "belonged to the button" which indicates button/bottone was in use in Sicily.

In Sicily with so many people being interrelated or at least from the same village it'd be understood that virtually everyone is "with" someone and it'd probably be well-known. They may have less need to formally define associates the way we do in the US, with "avvicinati" either being proposed members or a more exclusive class of formal associates.

The DeCavalcantes have operated more like a Sicilian Family in this way, with LE estimates even at their peak having them at something like a 1:1 or 1:2 member/associate ratio (need to find that source again, but I think I have that right). If that's accurate, it indicates the DeCavalcantes had a small number of people they formally put on record with their Family but we know they had a wider range of contacts/associates than that and countless people in NYC, NJ, CT, and elsewhere could have been considered "with" them.

[CabriniGreen]

Gravano said in his book Shorty Spero was like that.
Respected as a friend, but because the books were closed, still technically an associate. He made it seem there were probably guys like this in every family. Classic case is Gotti running the Bergin as an associate...no?

[Pogo The Clown]

The DeCavalcantes have operated more like a Sicilian Family in this way, with LE estimates even at their peak having them at something like a 1:1 or 1:2 member/associate ratio (need to find that source again, but I think I have that right). If that's accurate, it indicates the DeCavalcantes had a small number of people they formally put on record with their Family but we know they had a wider range of contacts/associates than that and countless people in NYC, NJ, CT, and elsewhere could have been considered "with" them.

In 1988 they were listed at 50 made members with 80 Associates. In 2003 they were listed at 40 members with at least 50 associates. I also have a vague recollection of LE having them at 100 associates during the 1960s. This is reflected in most of their cases being made member heavy without the big associate pools like we see in NY and Philly.


Pogo

[TallGuy19]

What is everyone's opinion on the average number of associates per member in 2022? I've heard that the FBI usually estimates ten associates for each member, but how accurate is that? I'd have to assume that the average Genovese soldier probably has more than the average Colombo or Bonanno soldier, and the average soldier in any New York family probably has more than the average soldier in Philadelphia, Jersey, etc.

[PolackTony]

This has been posted before but is relevant here:



- I'm curious about the term "avvicinati". Google Translate says it literally means "come closer" but I'm guessing there's some cross-language context I'm missing. However the meaning is pretty intuitive, referring to non-members who are allowed to be "closer" to the organization.

- While "avvicinati" is obviously a term for associates in the Sicilian mafia, it's not explained whether this is used to describe all associates or is a different class of associate. The references above indicate there are fewer "avvicinati" with a given Family than even the membership, which makes it extremely unlikely this refers to everyone associated with a Sicilian Family (they have entire villages of associates).

- My guess is "avvicinati" are either proposed members or associates being groomed for membership as the numbers would make sense. A Family like Carini who as mentioned has 16 members and 9 "avvicinati" fits this idea, that they are doing just enough active recruiting to maintain their numbers. If "avvicinati" doesn't refer to proposed members or recruits I've got no idea what the distinction would be between "avvicinati" and other people who are "with" a Sicilian Family.

This is kind of a tangent, but it makes me think of Valachi telling the FBI in an early interview how proposed members are called "propaus" (ph). Seems pretty clear he was saying "proposto". No shocker if they used the Italian equivalent but I'm always interested in how the language has changes vs. stayed the same, like the thread about Melchiorre Allegra saying made members "belonged to the button" which indicates button/bottone was in use in Sicily.

In Sicily with so many people being interrelated or at least from the same village it'd be understood that virtually everyone is "with" someone and it'd probably be well-known. They may have less need to formally define associates the way we do in the US, with "avvicinati" either being proposed members or a more exclusive class of formal associates.

The DeCavalcantes have operated more like a Sicilian Family in this way, with LE estimates even at their peak having them at something like a 1:1 or 1:2 member/associate ratio (need to find that source again, but I think I have that right). If that's accurate, it indicates the DeCavalcantes had a small number of people they formally put on record with their Family but we know they had a wider range of contacts/associates than that and countless people in NYC, NJ, CT, and elsewhere could have been considered "with" them.

Yeah, “avvicinàto” is an adjective/noun derived from the past participle of “avvicinare” (to approach). From what I’ve seen, it’s used in the same fashion as “associate” for the US mafia by LE and the press, though I wonder if this was originally an insider term (and thus reflects the way that the mafia itself has conceptualized formal affiliation of non-members) or instead imposed by outsiders (as with “associate”). It’s also unclear to me whether avvicinàti solely comprise those being groomed for induction, or if it also includes US-style formal associates who may serve in this role indefinitely without ever being made.

[Pogo The Clown]

What is everyone's opinion on the average number of associates per member in 2022? I've heard that the FBI usually estimates ten associates for each member, but how accurate is that? I'd have to assume that the average Genovese soldier probably has more than the average Colombo or Bonanno soldier, and the average soldier in any New York family probably has more than the average soldier in Philadelphia, Jersey, etc.

Looking at the various estimates for the NY families over the years 5 associates for every member seems to be the most common ratio. Probably less today. Outside of NY it is much less. For Philly it would be about 2 associates for every member and for the DeCavalcantes about a 1:1 ratio.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Great thread topic by CC and some really interesting and useful comments and posts here. CC brought up the example of Sam DeStefano, which is useful to think through. DeStefano doesn’t seem to have ever been made. Not only was he Sicilian, but he was one of the largest loan sharks in the country. According to associate Chuck Crimaldi, DeStefano was not a “syndicate man”; further, Crimaldi claimed that DeStefano’s juice loan operation was entirely independent of “syndicate functions” and was instead direct to Accardo (DeStefano was close to Ricca personally, as they both hailed from Taylor St, but Crimaldi claimed that in later years Ricca didn’t meet with DeStefano personally and DeStefano was handled by Accardo in Ricca’s stead). Now, DeStefano either didn’t want to be a member, or Chicago wouldn’t make him because he was a nut (based on what I know of DeStefano, I see either scenario as plausible). Despite his Sicilian ancestry then, DeStefano seems to have been the same sort of “associate” as guys like Guzik, Humphreys, and Alex: directly partnered or coordinated with the family’s admin or senior members, and tasked with overseeing a lucrative or vital racket operation. With DeStefano, he operated a massive juice ring that doesn’t seem to have been under a formal Capo/decina, but instead was direct to the elders of the family; he was also stated to have performed numerous sensitive “favors” for the family, including sticking up polling places during elections (to destroy opposition ballots) and, presumably, a good number of murders. Humphreys et al were tasked as critical liaisons for political, judicial, labor, and business corruption, though guys like Alex, Pierce, Kruse, and Patrick also functioned as operational “bosses” of informal “crews” in racket operations, with both Italian and non-Italian “associates” working under or for them, same as DeStefano. The only substantive difference between DeStefano and these guys, so far as I can tell, is that DeStefano theoretically qualified for membership, while they didn’t (though in all of these cases, the Italian guys that worked for them qualified for membership and a number of them were indeed made over the years).

In later decades, we have the example of Marco D’Amico, another top-level Italian who may have never been made (there has been dispute over this, and there are many things about Chicago that we don’t know or only partially understand. But if D’Amico was ever made it presumably came rather late in his career and would’ve been a button out of respect more than anything). While earlier in his career D’Amico (who was from Taylor St) seems to have been an associate of the Buccieri (Taylor St/Cicero) crew, later he seems to have functioned as a top-level associate direct with DiFronzo. He seems to be the latter-day equivalent of DeStefano, in terms of the class of “associate” that he was.

While these above guys were partners or personal associates of the admin/senior members, who often basically ran their own gangs or “crews” that were under the dominion of the Outfit without being formally part of the mafia organization, you then have the typical LCN “associate” - Italian, non-, half-, whatever - who are directly affiliated with an actual, formal LCN crew/decina. Criminologist Robert Lombardo draws the distinction between “made guys” and “outfit guys”, and considers the latter to be vital to the the mafia organization without being formally inducted members. To the extent that these worker-associates were tasked with much of the actual work performed by the decina, I agree. In my model, formal, made membership essentially constituted a body of shareholders (as well as a hierarchically ordered chain of command and system of tiered representation) that constituted the family. In racket operations, they were managers, co-investors, franchisees. Crew-based associates, then, were basically workers or employees of the family (tangentially, I believe that formally affiliated but non-member guys like this have been a source of confusion with regard to Chicago’s making ceremony. My opinion is that some of the circa 60s era CIs who said that there was no ceremony and that a guy was simply told “you’re in” were actually referring to what NYC called being “put on record”). The status of worker/employee is further suggested by intel that refers to guys being placed on the family or “company payroll”.

There are still important nuances and gradations here, however. You have examples of important non-Italian associates affiliated with a mafia decina who functioned not as “employees” of the crew, but as trusted advisers, partners, and supervisors for the captain (prime examples being Weiner and Schweihs for the Battaglia/Lombardo crew, or Joe Arnold for the Prio crew). On the other hand, you had guys like, say, Ronnie Jarrett or Philly Tolomeo, who were, basically, employees of Frank Calabrese in what was an informal “crew” under the umbrella of the formal LaPietra decina. Then, you have guys who were basically associates of on-record associates. I recently brought up the case of Johnny Cascio on another thread, as it was interesting and instructive. Cascio was a Chicago associate in FL, who started working with FBI agent Ed Robb while the latter was working undercover as Lucchese associate “Tony Rossi”. Cascio was “with” Michael Spilotro, who Robb mistakenly identified as a “Chicago member”. We know that Mike Spilotro was absolutely not a made guy, however, but was himself “with” his brother Tony. In this rare inside account of Chicago interacting with an NYC family in racket operations, we can see that even two associates working together necessitated repeated meetings and directives from both families, suggesting that the activities of a third-tier associate-of-an-associate like Cascio was still governed by strict protocol.

B offers an expansive but useful definition of a mafia “associate” that encompasses all of these gradations: anyone who can be represented within the mafia system by an inducted member of the mafia (a “friend of mine”). With a family like Chicago, which, unlike NYC, wasn’t in constant interaction with multiple other families on its home turf, representation was likely more often than not theoretical and implicit, becoming salient and concrete when there was a dispute or need for coordination within the family or its subordinate “syndicate” network itself, or (as in the Cascio case) when members and/or associates were interacting with those of another family. Guys like Alex or DeStefano, where everyone knows who they were, were likely just implicitly understood to be “with” the senior members/admin of the family. No one would have to explicitly state that, presumably, probably ever. If someone from another crew had a dealing or problem with, say, Ronnie Jarrett, however, it would be salient in resolving the issue or working out a business arrangement that Ronnie was with Calabrese, who in turn was represented by his capo, LaPietra. That the representative aspect of association was important and explicitly recognized internally within the Chicago family is illustrated by a wiretap where captain Ross Prio and one of his members, Dom DiBella, refer to soldier Jay Campise as an “avugad”, seemingly with respect to a crew of guys that he had under him. We know from another wiretap that a soldier, Joe Castelli, addressed Giancana explicitly as “avugad”. While Giancana represented the family as a whole (both internally and vis-a-vis the National LCN system), Campise (or Frank Calabrese, etc, any soldier who functioned as a “crew boss” for the guys working under him), represented the formally affiliated but non-inducted associates under them in an analogous fashion (a great example of the iterative, tiered, Russian-doll nature of the mafia as an organizational and representative system, where the prime principle is “as above, so below”). Another thing to consider is chain of command. We can think of many examples of guys who were “amico mio” -- personal partners, friends, relatives — but who presumably were not part of or subject in the same way to the vertical chain of command structure of the mafia organization. Guys like, say, Ronnie Jarrett and his ilk absolutely were. Presumably even a non-member like Mike Spilotro thus also played a role at the bottom end of the CoC, as one would assume that he could and did relay orders that came down via his brother to guys like Cascio who were “with” him.

[B.]

Even though somebody can't truly represent the Family unless they're made, the mafia at its core is a system of representation and I think some associates are viewed as worthy representatives of the organization in specific activities while other associates are just seen as subordinates / flunkies / people in the network.

Going back to Brasco, Lefty made it a point to register him with the underboss and they quickly began using Brasco as their representative first in the Milwaukee scheme and then in Florida. They wouldn't necessarily take the same steps for someone who was just going to work the door at a card game. They wanted Brasco to represent them, not just work for them. This is made more evident by them later proposing him for membership.

Upper-tier associates still need a member to represent them at the end of the day but they are trusted to represent the Family's interests to the full extent non-membership allows, which for some associates means having a ton of influence / power / respect.

[Dave65827]

In terms of associates would you guys agree Michael Meldish may have been a upper tier associate? He seemed to have been in direct contact with the higher ups and famously Madonna which led to his murder

A kind of stupid comparison but like Tony Blundetto in the sopranos. He’s treated with the respect of a made guy without never being a made guy in respect for his past and work done.

Besides mafia rules irl I assume Meldish kind of had this “respect” despite being an associate.

[Browniety86]

Angelo Ponte and Papa Smurf come to mind when talking about the Genovese...made shit tons of money for that family through garbage but never wanted the stripes...