Rochester Family origin date

[BeatiPaoli]

To Pogo: Thank you very much for the reference back to the 2019 thread!!! Within that thread, you made the statement: "In 1964 after they whacked Jake Russo. They broke off from Buffalo in 1968 in I'm not mistaken." I entirely agree with that statement. However, I am having a hell of a time finding that year of Rochester's independence from Buffalo, 1968, in a book or FBI document. I can surmise from the Rochester Wiki site the following statement:

"In late 1968, after Stefano Magaddino was raided (I don't recall the place) and $ 400,000 was discovered. This flew in the face of statements he had made to his underlings that Christmas was going to be a little thin. Subsequently, Todaro and Pieri met with Frank Valente in Rochester, all agreed to depose/have deposed Magaddino as boss of the Buffalo Family, Todaro and Pieri stayed with Buffalo and formed 2 competing factions, but Valente announced Rochester's independence, which which the other 2 agreed." However, the Rochester Wiki site gives no hard reference to that supposition.

I have a great deal of confidence in your statements/opinions on this Forum. Do you have any other hard reference(s) material to back up the 1968 date? Once again, I agree with you that by that year, Rochester was its own Family (at least in their own minds, if not that of the Commission, which is another debatable topic I don't want to wade into).

Looking forward to your response.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[BeatiPaoli]

To Everyone: Bump in the hopes of getting Pogo's attention.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[JeremyTheJew]

To Everyone: Bump in the hopes of getting Pogo's attention.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

Click pogos link

[Pogo The Clown]

1968 in is the year I've seen. I don't recall off the top of my head any document that specifically references that year.


Pogo

[B.]

Talk of splitting off was going on as early as 1966^

The Bonanno reference is particularly interesting since many of the prominent Rochester-based members would be ID'd by LE as Bonanno members by the late 1970s and early 1980s. Given they weren't recognized as their own family by the Commission, one possibility is that they were officially Bonanno members (while in reality operating independently) though no Bonanno sources have mentioned this.

Valenti's comment would also imply he was in talks with someone in the Bonanno family. He couldn't arbitrarily decide "I'm going with the Bonannos" without some existing relationship/discussion with the Bonannos.

[BeatiPaoli]

To Pogo: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY!!! As I indicated in prior posts, the Rochester Wiki site kind of laid out the chronology of events after (? Peter) Magaddino's raid where the $ 400,000 was found, and the subsequent meeting between Todaro, Pieri, and Valenti, which I believed took place at the very end or 1968. Other sources refer vaguely to how the Rochester Family existed in the 1960s. I am still trying to nail some hard reference down for this Family's origin date/year.

To B: Also, thank you for that FBI excerpt. Is it possible that when Valenti says he will "go with Joe Bonanno", he means himself getting a personal transfer, as opposed to bringing his regime/fledgling Family with him??? Just wondering about context here. . . . . . . . .

One thing that would be very helpful is if I could determine exactly and precisely where the Rochester Wiki site got their information.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[B.]

To B: Also, thank you for that FBI excerpt. Is it possible that when Valenti says he will "go with Joe Bonanno", he means himself getting a personal transfer, as opposed to bringing his regime/fledgling Family with him??? Just wondering about context here. . . . . . . . .

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

He may have been talking about himself only, as he had previously transferred from Pittsburgh, though later we would see Rochester members who had been made with Buffalo identified as Rochester-based Bonanno members, so he may have been referring to the whole regime based on that.

Problems between Magaddino and Rochester went back several years with the Jake Russolesi murder. Russolesi was blamed for the heat stemming from the Agueci murder and Magaddino suspected that Russolesi was going to cooperate with LE. Valenti had ties to the area but was more of a fresh face on the scene which I suspect is why he was promoted to replace Russolesi. I'd be curious how the crew members felt about Russolesi's murder -- he had brothers who were part of the crew but no clue whether his murder would have caused issues with the Rochester membership or not.

Around this same time Magaddino was having problems with his Ontario regime as well. A lot of this seemed to relate to Valachi, the drug case, and the Agueci murder, as well as John Papalia's reckless conduct. Valachi hid out in Rochester prior to his arrest.