Stefanelli

[B.]

Looks like Joe Pungitore is not highly thought of, likely due to him trying to distance himself from the other guys during the Scarfo case.

The tapes of him that were played in court back then during the meth case made him sound like a real problem for everyone, too. He was recorded bragging to an associate that he was trying to build an army of, I believe, 100 guys around him and basically talks about trying to make a move on the family.

[chin_gigante]

Couple of things:

From the way I read the transcripts I'm sure Licata says he sends out two lists of proposed members: one to the Genoveses and one to the Gambinos
I'm also pretty sure that Licata mentions a third candidate for membership who's a 'kid' in addition to JS and VM
Based on the context of the discussion, I assumed that the Anthony who proposed Dominic Grande was Anthony Staino, though Nicodemo makes sense in a lot of ways and seems perhaps more likely
Regarding the 7 guys Licata mentions as being made, I don't know whether he's referring to that happening after Merlino was arrested or after he (Licata) was released from prison around 2002/ 2003. I still think it's a possibility that Ligambi held a ceremony in 2000 to induct Joe Curro and possibly others (guys like Mike Virgilio, Martin Curro etc), and in the recent Mob Talk about making ceremonies, DS mentioned how 15 to 17 guys had been made since 2001
I agree that Staino is likely the Anthony who drove Licata and Fazzini to the 2007 making ceremony, just based on how he's likely to be there anyway as a captain and it was also Staino who drove Licata, Centorino and Fazzini to the 2009 Christmas party
The bit about Nick Milano hanging out with Alite and Casasanto could perhaps be the reason why he was considered inactive on the 2009 Philly PD chart; perhaps he was put on the shelf following the Casasanto murder (though, to the contrary, Casasanto's brother continued to be around the Merlino group after this and was part of the Lancellotti and Nicodemo's Atlantic City gambling ring)

[Chucky]

If Ligambi knew Staino since he was a kid it’s easy to believe Merlino has known him for a long time too, given his relationship with Ligambi. Staino told the undercover fed he was aligned with Merlino during the war with Stanfa and was hanging around Merlino’s people regularly by the mid 90s. My guess is he was made by the end of the 90s, but that’s me.

[Stroccos]

Great breakdown B , thanks for doing it

[johnny_scootch]

Stefanelli says Nick Corozzo was the one running things at one point.

Looks like it wasn't just a rumor Nicky started himself and the people saying he was the boss at some point (including myself) weren't necessarily wrong but we weren't totally right either as he wasn't official, so it can be argued both ways.

Thank you for that breakdown, I got a headache trying to read that fucking transcript.

[TommyNoto]

No problem.

Big points I got from this:

- Philadelphia members have been in regular contact with many NYC guys. Both Philly and the Gambinos were very familiar with each others' members and activities, with some of these guys already having met multiple times before this. Would be interesting to know more about Massimino's involvement with the Genovese family which Ligambi didn't want to involve himself in.

- The Gambinos still had heavy union influence in New Jersey at this point.

- The amount of networking that goes on in prison is huge and creates a lot of close bonds between members of different families. Not a surprise, but interesting to see it play out here in dialogue.

- Nick Corozzo and Lenny DiMaria were heavily influential within the Gambino leadership, to the point that Licata felt they would be a factor in the administration after their release from prison. Stefanelli says Nick Corozzo was the one running things at one point.

- According to Stefanelli, it was Nick Corozzo who stood up for the Philadelphia family and got them recognized again by the Gambino family (remember DiLeonardo told us that the Gambinos previously weren't recognizing Philly). We can see that the Corozzo crew was very close to Philly, with Blaise's granddaughter marrying Esposito and their crew members meeting with Philly guys at various events.

- From Stefanelli and Licata's comments, it's clear John Gambino was a first among equals on the triumvirate and they felt he wouldn't lose his position regardless of other admin changes.

- Many guys had a favorable opinion of Scarfo until he transferred his son to another family without permission and started trying to drum up support from Philly members. I found it very interesting that Saul Kane was writing letters to Grande trying to help Scarfo take over again and that they offered Joe Grande the position of captain if he stayed with Scarfo.

- It was Riggi's sons after all who took over the DeCavalcante family after Miranda stepped down and the Riggis were held in horrible disdain by the Philly Newark crew.

- Lorenzo Mannino was clearly a rising star in the Gambino family at this time.

- I'm amazed at how knowledgeable Trucchio was of different people, especially the Philly guys.

- Interesting that Nicky Whip got close to John Alite and Casasanto. Thinking of it now, it must have been John Alite's 3500 material that Trucchio was talking about. It would make sense why he obtained it and why the material talked about Casasanto, Turchi, etc. given Alite knew them.

- Scarfo Jr. was made sometime around or after June 1999. Curious what the story is with Sam Piccolo starting his own crew and it causing problems.

Jesus B. you are unreal , some of the best stuff I’ve seen

The Wayne close to Tacetta is likely Wayne Cross, long time local NWK / Bellville guy with a son who was active a few years back.

Interesting how much construction interest the Gambinos have and make sense why you rarely hear from them. They had an old jersey boxer doing their sports a few years ago. Tiny compared to WS / Luch sports book but those guys you read about in the paper.

[Tonyd621]

Thanks for sharing that transcript. It clears a lot up and creates a lot of room for discussion. I combed through and made notes:


Introductions

- Nick Stefanelli is making introductions between the Gambino / Philadelphia members and Joe Gambino pulls him off to the side to clarify something about a caporegime as well as something Gambino "doesn't want". From the next few statements, it appears that they are discussing how Lorenzo Mannino is a caporegime and Joe Gambino has some kind of preference for the way Stefanelli communicates this info. Gambino is glad Stefanelli already knows whatever it is he wanted to tell him.

- Scoops Licata thinks he previously met Ally Trucchio on some previous occasion with Blaise (Corozzo).

- When Scoops Licata meets Joe Gambino he says "This is Joey Gambino? Oh, oh...I finally met you! I heard so much about you!" and Gambino simply replies, "Ok. My pleasure." A short while later Licata is still excited about meeting Gambino. Later it is clarified that Licata did prison time with Lorenzo Mannino in the 1990s, where Mannino told Licata extensively about Joe Gambino.

- Anthony Staino and Ally Trucchio had met on a previous occasion, with Staino mentioning the name "John Trella" (ph?). Anthony Staino had also previously met Joe Gambino multiple times. Joe Gambino clarifies that he had met Michael Lancelotti, too, who is not in attendance. Lou Fazzini clarifies that Joe Gambino has met Lancelotti "a few times", one of which was at an event described only as "Eric's"; later there are discussions about Eric Esposito's wedding and a communion which where these guys met.

- When Scoops Licata and Lorenzo Mannino are introduced, Mannino brings up how they both did time at Raybrook and Scoops clarifies that they both were serving time at Raybrook in the early 1990s when Lorenzo first arrived there. Stefanelli describes them as "cellies".


At the Table

- Staino tells Stefanelli that he was going to "come up" to visit "just to come up" at some point, which Stefanelli encourages, telling Staino "Come hang out with us!" Staino says he wants to visit "Just to get out of there" (Philadelphia).

- Stefanelli asks Staino how Lancelotti is doing and tells Staino that he saw "Blaise's cousin". Staino asks how Blaise (Corozzo) is doing. Stefanelli also tells Staino he saw "your dear friend" and refers to him as "his nephew". It is clarified that this is Eric Esposito and Stefanelli saw him at a wedding two weeks earlier, which is then clarified as a communion. Curious whose nephew Esposito is. Staino is very familiar with "Blaise" and Stefanelli tells him Blaise has a curfew at 9 PM.

- Staino tells Stefanelli that Joe Grande isn't home yet, but Charlie Iannece is about to come home. Stefanelli says he knows Charlie White and loves him. There is other discussion of Scarfo era guys who have gotten out of prison or will be shortly.

- Staino adds that George Borgesi will be home after Merlino and "that's it". Ligambi says "he sends word to me all the time" but it's not clear if he means Merlino or Borgesi.

- Lou Fazzini asks if Merlino is going to Florida, as Merlino had previously said. Staino says "They're gonna have a caravan wherever he's at" and if "he sneezes, there be 5 hands giving him a hanky."

- Fazzini described Merlino as "slippery". Stefanelli says he hears Merlino is a "slippery fuck". Scoops Licata asks them if they're talking about Joey Merlino and then agrees with them.

- Scoops Licata asks Joe Ligambi if Damion Canalichio is still in prison and Ligambi says yes, at which point they discuss how Canalicchio was hit with an illegal contraband charge for tobacco which extended his sentence.

- Joe Ligambi is talking about Dave Schratweiser, Johnny Casasanto, and Joe Massimino but it's not clear what the context is, only that there is laughter.

- While Ligambi is talking about Johnny Casasanto, provoking laughter, Trucchio is talking about how his attorney mailed him the 3500 material (i.e. witness testimony).

- Licata says "At least we finally got to get him!" in reference to Casasanto and Trucchio says "nobody liked him." Trucchio adds that "It hurts...when he became a rat." Is this in reference to Casasanto?

- Licata talks again about serving time with Lorenzo Mannino and tells the others at the table that "Everybody loves him" (Mannino). Licata says he hadn't seen Mannino since 1997 when he left prison and notes that when he (Licata) went back to prison Mannino was gone. He says Joe Gatto and Mannino were both in solitary confinement because the prison system puts them there before they ship them out. They discuss how Joe Gatto died but how "they" (the government?) didn't "change him."

- Licata says that Mannino still looks exactly the same and makes a joke about whether Mannino still recognized him. Apparently Stefanelli met Mannino in prison as well.

- Ligambi brings up Nicky Whip Milano, who he says was "friends with Johnny". Stefanelli says he remembers Milano and Ligambi clarifies that Milano was friends with both John Alite and John Casasanto. He also mentions Ronny Turchi in connection with "all those guys". Ally Trucchio says in the 3500 material he obtained, someone testified about all of them. This is the second time Trucchio mentions the 3500 material in connection with Casasanto.

Danny D'Ambrosio in Connecticut

- Ligambi brings up "the guy in Connecticut" and Licata clarifies that "he's with them", implying Gambino family. Ligambi comments that regardless of who this CT guy is with, "He's with everybody", which prompts John Gambino to say "He's that type of guy", which makes Ligambi laugh.

- John Gambino says this Connecticut guy "comes up like every 6 months" and "comes up with ideas" but that "it's nothing". He mentions the name Augie in connection with this guy. The guy that Ligambi and Gambino are discussing in Connecticut appears to be named "Dan" and is constantly coming up with ideas that never pan out. As the conversation develops, it's clear that this is Danny D'Ambrosio. Gambino says D'Ambrosio was in Manhattan and Ligambi says "He's got the guy in Connecticut" and also "some Johnny-on-the-spots" and "all them things."

- Licata says D'Ambrosio is "a real big builder" and "very wealthy." John Gambino says he did time with him at Allenwood and Ligambi adds that D'Ambrosio was away on a gambling charge for 3 years at that time. Gambino says D'Ambrosia visits once a month following his release from prison, when he sought Gambino out.

- Ligambi asked D'Ambrosio "What are you doing in New York? You're supposed to be in Philadelphia." D'Ambrosia claimed to "run" (to NY?) and won't even mention John Gambino's name to him (Ligambi). Ligambi seems to think D'Ambrosia wouldn't know that Gambino would be meeting with the Philadelphia guys.

- There was some situation involving D'Ambrosio and someone Licata refers to as "Vito" (Malgieri?), and D'Ambrosia got to know "Vito" through Pete the Crumb Caprio, who Licata refers to as a "piece of shit".

- D'Ambrosio apparently could have been a billionaire but he got "tied up with this rat motherfucker Ralph" (Natale). Ligambi refers to Merlino being on trial and how they "got tapes off of Ralph" that revealed how Caprio and D'Ambrosio continued to speak with Ralph Natale on the phone after Natale went into Witness Protection. D'Ambrosio asked Natale if he could him visit him but Natale told him the FBI wouldn't let him. Ligambi is trying to show what poor character D'Ambrosia has and John Gambino says "We didn't know him that well."

- References are made to a Ray Rubio who was at Fort Dix.

- Ligambi says that Danny D'Ambrosio's father came to his doorstep and confronted Ligambi, saying the FBI told him he (Ligambi) was going to kill his son. Gambino says the next time D'Ambrosio calls he is going to do something that isn't discernable, probably saying he will ignore him.

- Staino says that D'Ambrosia has "so many crazy ideas" that "you got to listen", which Ligambi agrees with and Gambino agrees that he always listens to D'Ambrosio's ideas. John Gambino says "You never know", as one of his ideas "might materialize". Ligambi and Joe Gambino both emphasize that these ideas never pan out, though.

The Scarfos and Luccheses

- Licata talks about how Nicky Scarfo placed Scarfo Jr. with the Lucchese family and wondered what he was doing. He wanted to tell Scarfo, "We're here. Leave him here with us!" Presumably saying that Scarfo should have left his son with the Philly Newark crew he had been previously associated with.

- Ligambi and Licata talk about how Scarfo Sr. and Vic Amuso orchestrated Scarfo Jr.'s transfer to the Luccheses while the two were in prison together in Atlanta.

- Scoops Licata asks John Gambino if he ever met Scarfo's uncles, who Licata refers to as both the Piccolos and the "Buck brothers", which he clarifies is "what we used to call them." Speaking in Italian, Licata says there were three Piccolo brothers and says something undiscernable about one of them and says the other two were "amico nostra." Licata says "we were all young and they were old."

- Licata and Stefanelli discuss one of the Piccolos, who is referred to as the consigliere and "Tony Piccolo's uncle" who would be 100 or 110-years-old if he were still alive. Licata says he died in the early 1980s. While the DOD is wrong, they are clearly referring to Nick Piccolo. Licata adds that Joe Piccolo was the last one who died. Ligambi jokes that "You couldn't park in front of his house" which provokes laughter.

Beeps Gossip

- Ally Trucchio is the one who first brings up "Beeps" Centorino, asking how he's doing. Trucchio is also the one who first brings up Centorino being broke, which Licata confirms. Licata jokes about running a "benefit" for him and talks about how Nick Stefanelli has known Centorino a lot of years and brought him a lot of "scores". Stefanelli claims, "I made him rich!"

- This is where Ligambi brings up how Centorino was complaining to him at the Christmas party about being broke and how he was going out with a "broken down broad" in Florida.

- Licata says Centorino was claiming he put his house up for sale, but it wasn't because he was out of money, it was because he wanted to downsize to a smaller house.

- Fazzini says when they went down to Philadelphia for the Christmas party they used a car service. Centorino volunteered to drive but Fazzini said, "Get the fuck out! You got a fucking 1986 Volvo!" Licata says he wouldn't let Centorino drive, as he is 78-years-old and asked "Are you crazy or what?" and insisted on the car service.

- Ligambi says the line about Centorino selling cakes out of his trunk and they laugh, but Fazzini seems to confirm it and Stefanelli says "That's his nature" and "He's been that way all his life." John Gambino agrees that Centorino has "been that way all his life. Yup." implying he has some history with Centorino as well.

- Stefanelli says even if Centorino has a "barrel of money, he does the same fucking thing" and Licata agrees "You can't change him."

- When Stefanelli was young, he and Centorino's cousin Larry did a lot of stealing together, including gold that was worth $30 an ounce, which they took to Centorino in trailer loads.

- Despite Trucchio being the one who brought up Centorino, Licata tells him "he's a friend with us" and that "he's with me" but "can't earn three cents with him." In reference to this, Stefanelli asks Licata, "How about the guys in Chicago?" which Licata replies with, "They're not getting their three cents."

- Stefanelli clarifies that Centorino had a "crew" in Chicago where he used to steal, including diamonds. Licata says this involved a guy from Boston who fenced he diamonds. The Boston guy was named Jimmy and belonged to Bobby Cabert.

- Mention is made of Frenchy Lepore, who is described as a friend of Anthony Staino by Licata, which Staino confirms, though it's not clear if this means Lepore is on record with Staino or what. Licata says Frenchy is "with us" and talks about how Caprio had proposed Lepore for membership and how Lepore has brought this up but Licata told him they aren't going to make him now. Lepore even called Joe Ligambi's house once after receiving the number from Joey Merlino's mother. Lepore told Licata he was going to have a barbecue at his house and wanted to invite Ligambi, but Licata told him not to as Ligambi "ain't gonna come out here to go to your house."

Philly-Newark History

- Stefanelli, Fazzini, and Licata discuss how Fazzini's father and someone else's father were best friends. It's possible the other father was Stefanelli's but it's not clear. Stefanelli himself was friends with Fazzini's father and says he was "a little bigger than him (Lou) and maybe a little stronger than him," which prompts laughter. Stefanelli says the elder Fazzini was "strong" and a "fucking ox" who he used to go out stealing with, giving an example of the elder Fazzini's strength.

- Lou Fazzini says his family needed an air conditioner when he was a kid and his Dad went up to a window and pulled the air conditioner out of the window while a guy was watching TV, put it in his car, and drove home. He was apparently known as "Shafalou" (ph).

- Licata tells John Gambino he (Licata) lives in North Jersey and that they've "always" had a crew up there. John Gambino didn't know this. Licata tells him "We were here, and we were in Trenton", no doubt a reference to when the crew was made up of Newark and Trenton members under John Simone.

- Stefanelli asks John Gambino if he remembers Tony Bananas (Caponigro) and Gambino thinks he's talking about Joe Bayonne, who Licata clarifies was a Bonanno member. Gambino continued to be confused, telling the Philly guys that Joe Bayonne wasn't "with" them until it's made clear to him they aren't talking about Bayonne.

- Licata mentions how Caponigro was made consigliere but how it caused "a lot of bullshit" and how now they're "happy the way it is". Licata explains he's content to be a caporegime with his people in Newark and doesn't want a position "that belongs to them" but is willing to "help them up here". Ligambi agrees it is best to keep the administration in Philly.

- Ligambi, Stefanelli, and Licata talk about how Tony Caponigro was the ultimate gangster. Licata says he feels they set Caponigro up to get killed when they promoted him to consigliere. Stefanelli felt Caponigro should have stayed what he was before (note: Caponigro was a soldier before becoming consigliere).

- Ligambi says that Blackie Napoli was afraid to get out of jail because he had a beef with Ligambi and as a result he "wouldn't come home."

- Ally Trucchio says Blackie Napoli came down to Florida a couple of times and that he knew him since he was a kid, as Napoli was good friends with Trucchio's uncle.

- Stefanelli brings up old time Philly Newark member Louie Luciano, who they agree was a major gangster like Caponigro. Joe Gambino knew Luciano as well and agrees. Licata says that Louie Luciano was the cousin of Beeps Centorino's wife and mentions that Luciano was murdered in 1971.

- Licata says that "Albert (Anastasia) "used to use" Caponigro and Luciano. Stefanelli says Anastasia "put them with Angelo (Bruno)" so that they wouldn't be murdered. Licata adds that Caponigro and Luciano had "stuck up a couple of joints" and "wiseguys' games" and the wiseguys were looking to kill them. Licata says this was arranged through "the Silver Fox" Carmen Battaglia (Note: Battaglia was a Genovese member sometimes mistaken for a Philly member who was close to both groups).

- Licata adds that Albert Anastasia sent Caponigro and Luciano to be under Joe Bruno, who he believes was the boss at the time, and that Marco Reginelli was the underboss. Stefanelli comments about Reginelli being based in Camden. If Caponigro and Luciano become part of the Philly family under Joe Bruno when Reginelli was underboss, that would likely make it in the 1940s. Note that Fresolone also said Caponigro was originally with Albert Anastasia and that Licata was originally on record with Caponigro, which gives Licata's story here some credence.

- Licata says "Albert used the shit out of them" and "had them working double-time", seemingly in reference to murders. Stefanelli says Albert Anastasia "got close to Frank Costello" which is why he was murdered.

The Joe Sodano Murder

- Stefanelli said at some point with the "machines", Joey Sodano was making 30,000 to 40,000 a week with New York. Stefanelli seems to say that Sodano was close to New York on the street, but would hang out with New Jersey guys in prison.

- Licata says that while Stefanelli might have thought Sodano was a nice guy, he was actually a "no good motherfucker." Licata describes him as a "slippery son of a bitch." He says Sodano thought he was gonna "con them", which is why he got killed. He says Sodano didn't "wanna meet them" and was listening to Micky (Ricciardi), who Licata says was a "punk". He says "The Punk wanted Blackie, that senile bastard." This backs up what George Fresolone said about a faction including Sodano and Ricciardi wanting Blackie Napoli to take over again.

- Licata seems to say that Ricciardi told Sodano not to meet "them" (Philly admin?). He points out that Sodano was killed by a "piece of shit" and a "rat". Licata says if he was home, Sodano wouldn't have been killed. Licata felt he could have convinced Sodano to meet with the Philly leadership and would have been partners with him.

Licata's Relationship to Merlino

- Licata says he was "instrumental" in getting Joey Merlino straightened out in 1992. He says "I got him straightened out." It's not clear if he directly proposed Merlino for membership or simply laid the groundwork for it by making peace.

- He says Merlino and Mike Ciancaglini killed a "friend of ours" Felix (Bocchino). Licata said "we didn't like Felix anyway" and did what he could to calm everything down so that Merlino would get made. He seems to say that he wanted to "tear it down", implying the Stanfa regime. It sounds like Licata may have been against Stanfa himself but wanted to maintain the peace. However, he says "these kids were bad" and says "the boss" was Mike Ciancaglini.

- Licata confirms that it was brother against brother with the Ciancaglinis and that "all hell broke loose" after Licata went to prison.

Philly Induction Discussions

- Stefanelli and Licata praise Ligambi and Licata talks about how he and Ligambi were straightened out together. Licata says Ligambi will do anything Licata wants him to do because they get along well.

- Licata says Philadelphia doesn't have to show a list of proposed members like NYC, but says if he (Licata) wants to make someone from his crew he has to show a proposed member list. However, he says he is only going to show his list to the Westside, as "Who sees them other guys?" Stefanelli says "Fuck them." However, a few lines later Licata clarifies that he isn't required to show a list and does so as a gesture of respect. So it doesn't appear the Philly Newark crew is required to show NYC a list, but Licata wants to do it out of respect and the only group he respects is the Genovese family in NJ.

- Licata talks about how he proposed Joe Servidio, who is in a halfway house, but he doesn't want to induct him while he's in the halfway house and is going to wait until he's out. It's clear from various conversations that Licata isn't interested in having many members under him. Stefanelli and Licata talk about how Servidio bets too much money on horseracing and needs to stop. Stefanelli says it has gotten Servidio in trouble but other than that he's a "good kid."

- Joe Grande told Licata that he wanted to sponsor his nephew Dominic for membership, but Licata informed him that "Anthony" (Nicodemo) had already sponsored Dominic. Licata said, though, that he felt Ligambi was going to induct Dominic Grande as much for Joe Grande as for Nicodemo even though Nicodemo was taking the credit.

- Licata also mentions how he wanted to propose Vito (Malgieri) who is an associate of Beeps Centorino. Fazzini however says he doesn't know Vito that well and wants to "make sure" first. vito Malgieri's father is mentioned, "Doddie" Malgieri though it's not clear if he is/was an associate but they all know him. Licata says he hadn't talked to Centorino yet about wanting to propose Malgieri but doesn't "give a fuck" what Centorino says. Licata says he wants to put Malgieri on record with Fazzini before they make him to get to know Malgieri better.

- Frenchie Lepore was originally on record with Blackie Napoli, then Licata, then apparently with Blackie again, then later with other people whose names aren't ehard (I believe Caprio is one). Lepore came to Licata five years earlier and told him he had been proposed for membership, but Licata said "Proposed? You got a contract?" and told him anything Pete Caprio told him is "not honored" and to "forget about it."

Random Talk

- Licata initiates a toast to everyone, as they are drinking anisette. John Gambino adds a toast to the guys in jail.

- They discuss Eric Esposito's wedding more and Ally Trucchio talks about attending. Ligambi and Staino of course attended as well. Trucchio first met Esposito at the wedding, but Esposito was not yet a member. Esposito was made shortly afterward.

- Stefanelli attended a communion related to Eposito and mentions how Esposito married Blaise's (Corozzo) granddaughter.

Going Deeper on the Scarfo Issue

- Stefanelli brings up the issues with Scarfo. He and Licata talk about some guys who are "top shelf" but they (Licata and his people) are upset these guys "backed Nicky up." It becomes clear they are referring to the guys who did long prison sentences because of Nicky Scarfo Sr. and they talk about the position Scarfo put his son in.

- Licata again talks about it was a slap in the face when Scarfo Jr. went with the Luccheses. He said a proposed list was sent out that had Scarfo Jr.'s name and how he (Licata) knew Scarfo Jr. was being inducted before it happened. Licata had just gone to prison and he says Scarfo Jr. was inducted sometime after he went away in June of that year (later it's clarified to be 1999).

- They talk about how unlike the guys under him, Nicky Scarfo is never getting out of prison. Fazzini feels that Nicky Scarfo should just do his "fucking time", seemingly referring to Scarfo continuing to meddle in outside affairs.

- When Lou Fazzini was in prison, Scarfo Jr. told Fazzini's brother "when your brother comes home, tell him he's gotta come see us." Fazzini told his brother to stay away from "them" and when Fazzini got out he told Scarfo Jr. "You know, my friends are my friends."

- Ally Trucchio told Licata that he also saw the proposed list Scarfo Jr. was on, indicating Trucchio was already made at the time. Licata again adds that he knew about the list before he went to prison in 1999 indicating that Scarfo Jr. was going to get straightened out with the Luccheses at that time.

- Licata says that Steve Crea didn't want to induct Scarfo Jr. and "held it up", but Amuso sent word from prison to get it done.

- Stefanelli talks about how they (Luccheses?) were trying to "grab some Philly guys" to put under Scarfo and how "Pee Wee" (DePhillips?) told them to stop. Licata and Stefanelli describe the guys around Scarfo Jr. as "cologne wearers."

- Lou Fazzini says "the kid Piccolo" (Salvatore Piccolo) ended up "starting his own fucking crew" and says they were "against these guys". Licata calls him a jerk-off. Fazzini says "it came real close", possibly indicating violence. It almost sounds like Piccolo put together his own crew separate from Scarfo Jr.

The Joe Grande Situation

- Stefanelli says he hopes Joe Grande falls in line and considers Grande a "good guy". Licata says Grande reached out to him (Licata) and Ligambi wondered why Grande is reaching out to Licata instead of Philly, but Licata pushed to help settle things with Grande. He says Grande is "in touch with Wayne", but it's clarified that he isn't referring to Wayne Grande, but a Lucchese figure named Wayne who is or was "with" Michael Taccetta. He says this Wayne is close to Joe DiNapoli, possibly indicating he is "direct" with DiNapoli.

- Joe Grande was in touch with the Lucchese family through this Wayne and that factored into his situation before coming home. Stefanelli also adds that Grande "loves Nicky". Apparently Stefanelli did prison time with Grande which is how he also learned how fond Grande is of Scarfo.

- Stefanelli says Grande "took a punch" because of his love for Scarfo, no doubt a reference to the Pungitore situation. Stefanelli says this was because of a beef involving Joey Merlino. Stefanelli says he arrived at the prison right after Grande was punched. Stefanelli says an "Arnold" (Squitieri?) was there as well, apparently.

- Fazzini says that "you gotta fall in line with the administration" in reference to Grande's loyalty to Scarfo. They talk about how Nicky Scarfo isn't a rat, indicating they have respect for him, but how he's not coming home and how nobody wants anything to do with him. Fazzini says that in the same way Grande loves Scarfo, he needs to love the new administration as well.

- Licata says that Charlie White Iannece (who is about to be released) and Junior Staino (who has been released a couple years at this time) both want nothing to do with Scarfo anymore and Licata is going to tell Grande this as incentive to bring him in line.

- Licata says if Grande sends word to him through the Lucchese guy Wayne, he is going to tell Grande to go see the guy "out there" (probably Ligambi) and how if he's worried about going, Licata will go with him and allow Grande to "pick the spot" in order to make him comfortable.

- Stefanelli says either Joe Grande or Scarfo (probably Scarfo) sent him money one time when he was in the can and it was felt this was in order to "buy friends".

- Seemingly in reference to the leaders in Philadelphia, Fazzini says "They could give a fuck who's...acknowledging them or not" and how "Ain't nobody gonna take them out of Philadelphia." He says "We're all fucking hicks" seemingly in reference to the Newark crew in relation to Philly.

- Fazzini apparently either wanted to say or said to Nicky Scarfo Jr. "We need youse guys", so it sounds like there was a desire to bring Scarfo Jr. in with the Newark crew peacefully because they felt they could use him. Licata expressed similar sentiments.

- At another point, Stefanelli says he talked to Joe Grande on the phone a week earlier. Licata says "I made him report again," which apparently Grande told Stefanelli about. This is related in some way to a guy called Frankie who lost someone's money and is working in Philadelphia, so Stefanelli and some people were going to drive down and see him. This also seems to be related to Grande.

- Grande asked Stefanelli to come down and visit him and talked about having coffee with the same guy Stefanelli has coffee with, probably meaning Licata.

- Licata talks about how Joe Pungitore tried to get Grande murdered. Licata calls Pungitore a "motherfucker".

- At Staino's wedding Licata and Ligambi discussed how Joe Grande had just been released to a halfway house and how Ligambi was told by Anthony Staino that Joe Pungitore "buried" Grande. Licata told Ligambi that Pungitore was "full of shit" and in turn "buried" Pungitore.

- Licata says "they" (Pungitore's side) made it out like Grande claimed he was going to take over the Philly family and started saying he (Grande) was a captain and that people were under him. Licata and Stefanelli say this never happened and Licata was going to bring Stefanelli down as a witness on Grande's behalf.

- Stefanelli says Joe Pungitore sucker punched Grande in prison and "dropped him." Stefanelli says this was because Pungitore was on Merlino's side while Grande was still on Nicky Scarfo's side, as he loved Scarfo like a father.

- Licata says he asked Ligambi to forgive Grande as a favor to him (Licata). He said when Joe Pungitore was sentenced, he agreed a request from the judge not to return to Philadelphia, while Joe Grande never accepted any agreement like that. Licata felt this showed poor character on Pungitore's part in saying he wouldn't return to his home city.

More Grande Business at Staino's Wedding

- Licata talks about attending Anthony Staino's wedding and how Dominic Grande was there and how "they love that kid." Nick Stefanelli says he met Dominic Grande. Licata talks about how they're going to straighten Grande out in a couple of months. Licata describes Grande as a "beautiful kid" and a "nice boy". Stefanelli says Grande loves his uncle Joe.

- At Staino's wedding, Licata gave Dominic Grande a hug and kiss and told him it was for his uncle Joe. He also told Dominic to assure his uncle Joe that nothing would happen to him. After meeting with Licata, Ligambi told Licata that as long as "I'm here" nothing is going to happen to Joe Grande.

- Licata said Joe Pungitore was in Florida and wouldn't come back to Philadelphia. He said the Pungitores are "zillionaires". Licata said one of the Pungitore brothers is a "piece of shit", referring to Joe.

- Licata felt that the Pungitores' beef with Grande stemmed from the fact that "Nicky made 'em do somethin' to their friend and all", a reference to the Salvie Testa murder. Licata felt it was "water over the dam" and that they were just following orders, so Pungitore shouldn't hold a grudge against Grande.

Recognition Controversies

- Licata says the only mafia "clan" that still recognizes Nicky Scarfo as boss are the Luccheses, because Vic Amuso was with Scarfo in prison. He says "all the other guy, they don't pay him (Scarfo) no mind". Licata says Amuso has to "put that show on to save his title". He appears to be saying Amuso used the Scarfo situation as a way to flex his political power and assert his title as boss.

- Fazzini and Staino had a conversation at some point about Nicky Scarfo (Jr.?) telling people that the Philly guys aren't recognized as members by the Luccheses. This apparently happened more than once. Fazzini told Staino that "they don't recognize us" but "we don't care". He goes on to talk about how Joe Grande was told (presumably by Scarfo) that he was on the wrong side, as those guys weren't recognized, which angered Staino when he heard it. Fazzini told Staino not to be angry as Grande was just repeating what he was told.

- Fazzini says again that "we weren't being recognized by them." I presume he's talking about the Lucchese family not recognizing the Philly members' membership, as he goes on to say that "they recruit guys from Philadelphia", which Stefanelli says they can't do, as "my Nicky" (Corozzo) "put a stop to that years ago." He says Nicky (Corozzo) came forward at one point and stopped Nicky Scarfo from trying to recruit "disenchanted" Philly guys, as they belonged to Philadelphia.

- Apparently the Scarfo faction gave Joe Grande some money in an effort to recruit him. Licata says they gave him "700". Nicky Scarfo Jr. also promised to make Joe Grande a captain, and Fazzini says this was not under the Luccheses, but with Philadelphia under Nicky Scarfo Sr. as boss.

- Stefanelli, Fazzini, and Licata all make disparaging remarks about Scarfo Jr. and Fazzini says "when Merlino comes home, who knows what could happen?" and Licata says "Whatever he wants to do", and Fazzini adds that whatever Merlino does "he ain't wrong". Licata says that Merlino is going to relocate to Florida.

- Stefanelli says he served prison time with Grande when Joey Merlino was taking over in Philly. Grande used to talk to Stefanelli about what would happen when Nicky Scarfo gets home and how "we're gonna change things". Stefanelli wondered what they were going to change and if that meant 40 more people getting killed. He said if the Scarfo group tried to take tings back over it would be the cops who win.

- Grande told Stefanelli that he was loyal to Scarfo, as Scarfo was good to him. Licata says Scarfo was good to him, too, but it was now a "different regime". Fazzini says "You gotta respect who's here."

- They talk about how Joe Pungitore wants to move to Florida. Stefanelli says on the other hand, Joe Grande is in Philly and "ain't afraid of nuttin'." Stefanelli says "he moved into the lands of the Phillistines." They all praise Joe Grande for being a "gangster" and returning to where he was born even though he could be killed there.

- Licata says Nicky Scarfo was good to everyone and the only thing he didn't like is that Scarfo put his son with the Lucchese family. Stefanelli felt Scarfo put his son with the Luccheses to save his life, but Licata says Scarfo could have reached out to the Newark crew and they would have protected Scarfo Jr.

- Fazzini asks what the original beef was between Merlino and Scarfo Jr., and Licata says Merlino shot Scarfo Jr. Fazzini asks if it happened because Scarfo took Chucky Merlino down from underboss, and Licata says that was one reason, but that Nicky was also abusive. Scarfo made abusive comments to Chucky Merlino in front of friends in prison. Licata says Scarfo also talked badly about Merlino in front of people in Atlanta, including Vic Orena. Licata says Scarfo said to Merlino, "I'll kill you and your family. I'll kill you, your wife, your son, your daughter". They feel Joey Merlino was justified in shooting Scarfo Jr. based on Nicky Scarfo threatening to kill Merlino's relatives.

- Licata says Saul Kane was sending letters to Joe Grande in prison "brainwashing" him. It sounds like Saul Kane was politicking for Scarfo from prison.

- Licata and Stefanelli felt that Leonetti flipping reflected badly on Scarfo given that Leonetti got off scot-free when all of the other guys did massive sentences. Licata also felt some of the Scarfo era guys could have made plea deals and got much less time.

The Rise of Jimmy Balls

- Stefanelli says "Jimmy Balls" (Beltempo), who is in his 70s and served 25 years in prison is going to be the new Gambino NJ captain.

- Stefanelli clarifies that while "Jimmy Balls" is going to be the NJ captain, he won't be Stefanelli's captain since he (Stefanelli) "got straightened out in New York".

- Stefanelli says that "Jimmy Balls" is based in "Downtown New York" but is going to be over NJ. After Jimmy was released from prison, Stefanelli says he was straightened out and placed direct with the Gambino administration for a couple of years with the eventual plan to promote him to captain. Licata felt this was "crazy".

Union Activity in NJ


- Later they talk about how some sort of union activity was also placed under Jimmy Balls, which Licata initially asked if it was going to be given to "Tony". It becomes clear that this "Tony" is the Gambino member who was going to help Pete Caprio kill Ligambi take over the Philly family in the earlier failed coup. Licata says Joe Ligambi hates this "Tony".

- The day prior to this dinner, Stefanelli had met with "Jimmy Balls" and also met with someone named Silvio about a dispute between the aforementioned "Tony" and someone called "Nino". He mentions this Silvio "getting in" but it's not clear if he means inducted, in the union, or something else.

- Stefanelli says Andy Merola recommended putting Nick Stefanelli in charge of the carpenter union instead of "Tony". This carpenter union he said belongs to Nicky Corozzo which is why Corozzo crew member Stefanelli was put in charge. A "Marty" was involved with Andy Merola in this union situation, probably Marty Taccetta, and there was a dispute with someone, probably "Tony", who appears as a troublemaker throughout the entire discussion.

- Stefanelli says the Gambino administration gave "Jimmy Balls" control over the NJ union locals because he is the captain. He says "Jimmy Balls" made a lot of money and "helped everybody." However, this as a source of conflict, as the carpenter's union belonged to Corozzo even though it was in Jersey and Stefanelli and the Corozzo crew were fighting to keep the local under their people.

- The Philadelphia family was connected to the aforementioned union business somehow and this "Tony" of the Gambino family was trying to send messages to Philadelphia. Licata told "Tony" he can't reach out to Philadelphia without going through him (Licata) or Fazzini. Licata apparently told Joe Massimino about this. Someone called Romano in NYC was also involved in this issue who was doing business with Massimino.

- Joe Massimino had contact with the Genovese family related to these issues as well. It appears the Romanos are with the Genovese family, including an Anthony Romano. It's not clear what Massimino's involvement was, but Ligambi wanted nothing to do with the people Massimino was doing business with and Massimino resented this. It's clear that the Philadelphia leadership was involved in a bunch of activity involving NJ/NYC figures from different families and this possibly involved union activity.

Stefanelli's Crew Assignment

- Stefanelli says that his captain (Jimmy Dellaratta) was able to keep Stefanelli with their crew by saying "Nicky (Stefanelli) is with Lenny" (DiMaria). From surrounding talk, it sounds like Lenny DiMaria was responsible for bringing Stefanelli in with the Corozzo crew and they used this fact to keep Stefanelli with that crew instead of the Jersey crew under "Jimmy Balls." However, Stefanelli was told by Dellaratta it was "up in the air" where Stefanelli would ultimately belong.

- Licata asks if John (Gambino) or his brother Joe has any say in what crew Stefanelli will belong. Licata says they will take the Gambino brothers out to dinner a few times in order to "pump it up" to help Stefanelli stay under the Corozzo crew.

- Stefanelli says "John's the administration" and mentions JoJo Corozzo, but Licata says "Jojo's officially under him", meaning Corozzo ranks lower than John Gambino.

- Licata says "Nobody's the boss" of the Gambino family and Stefanelli says something about someone being "acting" but says "Pete Gotti's really the boss." Licata says Gotti has a "big beef with the triumvirate."

- Stefanelli says if "they don't beat the case, then it's Joe Watts". Licata asks if Watts is in prison and Stefanelli says Watts is "protected" which puts Licata into disbelief. The context seems to suggest that Joe Watts could be seen as a potential family leader (?) but the comment about him being "protected" suggests he may have cooperated.

The Future of the Gambino Administration

- Stefanelli says "Nicky (Corozzo) was calling the shots" at some point in reference to the Gambino leadership discussion.

- Licata says Funzi (Sisca) and Arnold (Squitieri) are "done" and asks who is going to take "this" over. It becomes clear he's referring to the administration. Stefanelli tells him someone he's "with now" and "his other guy is going to do it now".

- Licata asks if John Gambino is going to stay with the administration, which Stefanelli confirms. He says Jojo Corozzo will be home soon and at this time was still the consigliere. He says Jojo and Lenny will be getting out of prison and asks if "they are going to leave them there", referring to the triumvirate. Stefanelli doesn't know, but Licata feels the triumvirate have control of the family. This is interesting as it suggests Lenny DiMaria had influence over future administration positions.

- Licata says "the other crew put their own team up there" in reference to the Gambino triumvirate.

- Stefanelli says when John Gambino asks you to do something, you do it. Seems to be an indicating of the authority he holds within the family.


Philly and Newark Crew Relationship

- Fazzini and Licata again talk about being happy with what they have in Newark and being content to leave the guys in Philly to run things. Licata makes it clear he has no interest in an administration position and likes doing his own thing up north.

- Licata says they (Newark crew) are good friends with the Philly guys and will be even when "that kid Joey" (Merlino) gets out. Licata says that Ligambi isn't claiming to be the official boss because Joey Merlino is like a son to him and grew up with Merlino's father. Licata quotes Ligambi as saying "It's his", meaning the boss title is Merlino's. However, Licata and Stefanelli agree that the family should leave Ligambi as the acting boss even after Merlino is released.

- Licata and Fazzini talk about how Ligambi has never asked them for money. Hard to tell, but it also appears that they are saying Merlino gets all of the money that gets kicked up to Ligambi. They all like Ligambi because he is a street guy and not "polished", as they feel "polished guys" are dangerous. "Polished" probably means more like a businessman/racketeer type.

- Stefanelli thought Anthony Staino was Ligambi's nephew, but Licata clarifies that Staino is "like a nephew" to Ligambi. Licata says Junior Staino is "close to the West" (Genovese?). Licata says Ligambi has known Anthony Staino since he was a kid. Licata appears to describe Staino as Ligambi's "right arm".

The 2000s Philly Inductions

- Licata discusses how Merlino proposed 3 guys for the ceremony where Esposito and Fazzini were made and how Ligambi rejected them because he didn't know them. Licata thinks it wasn't a problem that Ligambi rejected them because he is like an uncle to Merlino and grew up with Chuckie Merlino.

- Licata says 7 guys total have been made since Merlino went to prison in 1999. Licata says Damion Canalichio may have been part of the first 5 who were inducted before Fazzini, as he was made before he went to prison.

- Fazzini talks about how he felt he was either getting made or killed and talked about the scene from Goodfellas being in his mind. He says it was held in an old meat market and he had to sit alone at a table downstairs and wait for them to call him up. Licata says that Fazzini was made first that night, before Damion was called up (this must be a mistake and he means Esposito).

- Stefanelli says 5 guys were made in his ceremony. Licata asks if Lorenzo Mannino was made in the same ceremony and Stefanelli says Mannino was made after, however Licata believes Mannino was made prior to Stefanelli and Stefanelli ultimately agrees that Mannino was made prior to him.

- The proposed members in Stefanelli's ceremony were inducted in order of age.

- Anthony (Staino?) picked up the Newark guys and drove them to the Philly induction. He told Fazzini to sit at the table downstairs and instructed Licata to go upstairs.

- Lancelotti brought Esposito to the ceremony and they arrived late, which is why Fazzini was by himself waiting downstairs. Licata adds that Lancelotti is a caporegime.

- Licata says Ligambi gave Licata the honor of having his inductee made first, but that because Esposito was from Philly he should have been made first.

Gambino Membership Discussion

- Stefanelli describes someone as a "fucking greaseball" who is in contact with a lot of union delegates. He says this guy wants to induct some of these delegates because they're giving him money but how they shouldn't make them mafia members. Stefanelli says they inducted some of the delegates because of greed but they weren't deserving of membership.

- Fazzini says he is very impressed by Ally Trucchio because he is sharp. Licata adds that he is impressed by "Anthony" (Michael Roccaforte) as well and considers him a gentleman. Stefanelli says he didn't know they were coming to the dinner. Licata thought there were originally only going to be three guys from the Gambino family coming. John Gambino made a last minute decision to bring so many guys and Lorenzo Mannino was the one who brought the other members.

- Fazzini felt they should have brought Michael Lancelotti to the dinner with the Gambino family because he is a captain, but Licata says that was up to Ligambi. Because Licata thought the Gambinos were only bringing three guys, Licata had told Ligambi not to bring very many people, only Anthony Staino.

- Stefanelli says John Gambino is "funny", as he is the type who wants other people to drink if he's drinking. Fazzini and Licata feel that Joe Gambino is "sharp" and says Lorenzo Mannino used to brag about Joe Gambino to Licata for years (presumably while they were in prison). This also explains why Licata got so excited when he was introduced to Joe Gambino.

The DeCavalcante Leadership

- Licata asks Stefanelli to find out from the Gambino administration what the situation is with the DeCavalcantes. Fazzini is curious, too.

- Stefanelli says something about a "father" (possibly John Riggi), but says they took down "Joe" (Miranda) who he describes as "the old man in New York" and made him a regular soldier.

- Fazzini seems to wonder who they could even find to replace Miranda, indicating there were few candidates.

- Stefanelli says Riggi's sons would replace Miranda, which Fazzini can't believe. Licata describes Riggi's sons as "them two jerk-offs" and Fazzini describes them as "fucking hands jobs". Later Fazzini mentions that one of them is Manny, but it's not confirmed by Stefanelli which of the three sons are being referenced (note: all three Riggi sons are made and only two are referenced here).

- Stefanelli says John and Joe (Gambino) didn't know much about the DeCavalcantes and it seems even to the Gambino family things were murky when it came to the DeCavalcantes.

- Fazzini asks if the Gambinos are acknowledging Riggi's sons and Stefanelli says "I guess", which shocks Fazzini. Licata says "Everybody ran away", seeming to say that the other DeCavalcante members don't want to be involved. Stefanelli says they didn't acknowldge anybody, this is just what they heard.

- Licata wanted to know about the DeCavalcante administration because he has business with them. He wants Stefanelli to pass word to the Gambino administration he has business with Riggi's sons and "has got to get along with them."

Fucking A, this is a first rate synopsis my man.

[Pogo The Clown]

- Licata says "At least we finally got to get him!" in reference to Casasanto

Licata and his big mouth came dangerously close to implicating them in a murder.


Great write up B.


Pogo

[dack2001]

Good work B. People get very close in prison....some guys you wouldn't imagine being close with anybody or anyone can be very close with guys on the inside, even if those guys would have barely ever given each other a nod or time of day on the outside. It's its own world in there.

I always liked those scenes on the Sopranos regarding Feech and Blundetto and that guy in New York who Frank Vincent kills on the turnpike. Better if they hadn't jammed it into one or two seasons but good stuff.

[B.]

What got me is how knowledgeable Stefanelli was. He had a lot of info on Philly, Jersey, and NYC history, had met a ton of people in prison and comes across very sharp. Granted he was cooperating and trying to get conversations going, but it's clear the knowledge was there.

It's unbelievable how much Licata gossips on these transcripts. I know these aren't the full transcripts of the dinner, but he volunteers all kinds of "need to know" information on the Philly organization to the Gambino members and while the Gambino guys are polite, they seem to offer relatively little in return about their own organization aside from Stefanelli (who had a reason to volunteer info).

[Chopper]

- Licata says "At least we finally got to get him!" in reference to Casasanto

Licata and his big mouth came dangerously close to implicating them in a murder.


Great write up B.


Pogo

True, plus he also mentions Merlino shooting Scarfo jr.


B, thanks a lot.

[B.]

Couple of things:

From the way I read the transcripts I'm sure Licata says he sends out two lists of proposed members: one to the Genoveses and one to the Gambinos
I'm also pretty sure that Licata mentions a third candidate for membership who's a 'kid' in addition to JS and VM
Based on the context of the discussion, I assumed that the Anthony who proposed Dominic Grande was Anthony Staino, though Nicodemo makes sense in a lot of ways and seems perhaps more likely
The bit about Nick Milano hanging out with Alite and Casasanto could perhaps be the reason why he was considered inactive on the 2009 Philly PD chart; perhaps he was put on the shelf following the Casasanto murder (though, to the contrary, Casasanto's brother continued to be around the Merlino group after this and was part of the Lancellotti and Nicodemo's Atlantic City gambling ring)

- It would make sense that he'd show a list to the Gambino family as well given he was close to Stefanelli and meeting with the Gambino leaders. I thought it was interesting re: Fresolone induction, as at first he seems to say the Newark crew has to show a list, then he makes it clear he does it voluntarily out of respect.

- At first I thought Licata was talking about a different person he proposed, too, but it seems he circled back to talking about Servidio again.

- My first thought was they were referring to Staino when they talked about Grande being proposed, too, but Grande was heavily associated with Nicodemo at the time which makes more sense.

- I assume Milano met Alite and Casasanto in prison. Can't think of any window of time where they all would have interacted elsewhere but I don't know where their prison time might intersect.

[moneyman]

Apologies if this is covered in the transcripts and I missed it. Didn't John Gambino and Stefanelli meet in the men's room, and Gambino tells Stefanelli that they can't do anything regarding the Scarfo Jr situation?

Do the Gambino members leave the dinner relatively early? Or did Stefanelli not catch their audio on his bug? It seems toward the latter half of the transcript they are not at the table. Staino seems to have left early as well.

[B.]

Apologies if this is covered in the transcripts and I missed it. Didn't John Gambino and Stefanelli meet in the men's room, and Gambino tells Stefanelli that they can't do anything regarding the Scarfo Jr situation?

Do the Gambino members leave the dinner relatively early? Or did Stefanelli not catch their audio on his bug? It seems toward the latter half of the transcript they are not at the table. Staino seems to have left early as well.

This isn't a complete transcript of the Gambino meeting and it includes segments of separate meetings between Licata, Fazzini, and Stefanelli that weren't attended by the Gambino leaders.

[moneyman]

Ah I see the locations and times are different, thanks.