Joaquin Garcia and the Gambinos

[Bklyn21]

Thats what I'm saying , I don't know whos right or wrong ? Is Garcia right or wrong ? Did Depalma lie , Or was he stating the same as Dileonardo about the 260 member cap for the family history by , Was Depalma 100% correct telling Garcia that there were presently 26 Capos and crews at that time and Garcia arguing with his superiors that they're charts were wrong and they were missing 5 Capos and potentially dozens of members and refused to acknowledge this for whatever reason ? Is it just all BS and hot air ? So , I look at other cases if this is true ? One being Buffalo , Were the Feds blowing smoke , Or was there really no viable family and only remnants ? I don't know whos lying, Or no one is lying and Garcia has it all wrong , The Feds repressing Information for whatever reasons and Agendas ? I believe the figures are somewhat correct for those years and times . Will it come out that Buffalo was alive and Viable over the last 20 years ? I don't know , But that investigation is ongoing and a few people hold the answers

[TommyGambino]

To quote FBI agent Joaquin Garcia years ago he says to other agents , Some high ranking ....." There are bad guys in this case who don't exist in your minds ". He told them , Because they aren't on your beautiful Charts. How many guys out there aren't on your charts who are in fact definitely Made guys ? You subscribe to the idea that your charts are 100% accurate ? Greg Depalma told me himself there are 26 Calls in the Gambinos family currently. you've only got 21 on your chart . where are tje other 5 ? You are missing a lot of soldiers !We identified the post Gotti administration in this investigation . You didn't have Squitieri , Megale , Or JoJo Corozzo as the boss undergoes and Consigliere ? In Garcia's and other agents words they could have made a very serious dent and have taken down a lot of all 5 crime families but the supeevisors and agents didn't and wouldn't let that happen. So , I do believe Dileonardo on his 260 members quote and I also believe the FBI is still missing between 50-60 soldiers . In the recent case regarding Martino and Campos they acknowledged the Gambino family is "Thriving" . It also makes me wonder about Buffalo and that im on the fence regarding if they active and how long theyve been if its true . After reading this book , Then recently rereading the book its obvious the Feds deliberately lie to fit they're own agendas and to nice size degrees, Even to they're own Agents/People

First, saying something could be the case in Buffalo because it's so in New York is apples and bowling balls.

Second, you can't just look at one source in isolation apart from everything else. People who do so tend to be looking for a particular outcome.

The feds don't have any reason to lie about how many members of the Gambino family there are. And their figures for the family have been rather consistent for well over 20 years now. 200 or so seems to be the ceiling. The 260 figure cited by DiLeonardo was a traditional max the family could have. But that doesn't mean there are 50-60 members unknown to law enforcement.

If Gravano identified 21 crews in 1991, when the family was a lot stronger, what chances are there that it had grown to 26 crews 10-15 years later?

DiLeanardo estimated 250 members

[Antiliar]

Garcia used to be a member of RD, so he's probably still on social media. He always made himself available to answer questions, so if someone contacted him in a friendly manner he probably would give a response.

I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the FBI is mistaken with Buffalo. The FBI doesn't have all the answers and doesn't have informants everywhere. Agents often don't ask the right questions and tend to only seek info that leads to prosecution. Sometimes offices don't share information, and data can be misfiled and mislabeled. Sometimes the Bureau will stick with a narrative because of a past prosecution, and changing the story could mean undoing convictions. In other words, we should be skeptical about all sources, including the FBI.

[gohnjotti]

A lot of what Garcia said in this regard doesn't hold water. For example in his book he said the Feds didn't know about Alphonse Sisca until he told them which is not accurate. Capeci IDed Sisca as a Capo in 2002 before the Garcia investigation even began. Capeci also mentioned in a 1999 column that Peter Gotti was survailled meeting with Squiteri and Sisca. Not to mention of course that the Feds prosecuted Sisca in the 1980s.


Pogo

Interesting catch, Pogo. If Garcia is claiming that he told the feds about Sisca, when did that happen?

[Bklyn21]

To quote FBI agent Joaquin Garcia years ago he says to other agents , Some high ranking ....." There are bad guys in this case who don't exist in your minds ". He told them , Because they aren't on your beautiful Charts. How many guys out there aren't on your charts who are in fact definitely Made guys ? You subscribe to the idea that your charts are 100% accurate ? Greg Depalma told me himself there are 26 Calls in the Gambinos family currently. you've only got 21 on your chart . where are tje other 5 ? You are missing a lot of soldiers !We identified the post Gotti administration in this investigation . You didn't have Squitieri , Megale , Or JoJo Corozzo as the boss undergoes and Consigliere ? In Garcia's and other agents words they could have made a very serious dent and have taken down a lot of all 5 crime families but the supeevisors and agents didn't and wouldn't let that happen. So , I do believe Dileonardo on his 260 members quote and I also believe the FBI is still missing between 50-60 soldiers . In the recent case regarding Martino and Campos they acknowledged the Gambino family is "Thriving" . It also makes me wonder about Buffalo and that im on the fence regarding if they active and how long theyve been if its true . After reading this book , Then recently rereading the book its obvious the Feds deliberately lie to fit they're own agendas and to nice size degrees, Even to they're own Agents/People

First, saying something could be the case in Buffalo because it's so in New York is apples and bowling balls.

Second, you can't just look at one source in isolation apart from everything else. People who do so tend to be looking for a particular outcome.

The feds don't have any reason to lie about how many members of the Gambino family there are. And their figures for the family have been rather consistent for well over 20 years now. 200 or so seems to be the ceiling. The 260 figure cited by DiLeonardo was a traditional max the family could have. But that doesn't mean there are 50-60 members unknown to law enforcement.

If Gravano identified 21 crews in 1991, when the family was a lot stronger, what chances are there that it had grown to 26 crews 10-15 years later?

DiLeanardo estimated 250 members

And the Garcia investigation was what ? 2 to 3 years after Dileonardo defected , I think the Feds had listed somewhere around 220 members ? I think , Don't quote me on that . So it pretty much fits with Garcia's and Depalmas estimations , I dunno about the Captains being 25 or 26 like he claimed ?

[StandUpGuy]

On a side note respect for DePalma never giving up on his son. Even after he flipped and he hang himself and becoming a vegetable he took care of him in a nursing home and never abandoned him.
There are plenty of regular parentes that arent scumbag criminals that would give up and abandon the kid.

[JohnnyS]

To quote FBI agent Joaquin Garcia years ago he says to other agents , Some high ranking ....." There are bad guys in this case who don't exist in your minds ". He told them , Because they aren't on your beautiful Charts. How many guys out there aren't on your charts who are in fact definitely Made guys ? You subscribe to the idea that your charts are 100% accurate ? Greg Depalma told me himself there are 26 Calls in the Gambinos family currently. you've only got 21 on your chart . where are tje other 5 ? You are missing a lot of soldiers !We identified the post Gotti administration in this investigation . You didn't have Squitieri , Megale , Or JoJo Corozzo as the boss undergoes and Consigliere ? In Garcia's and other agents words they could have made a very serious dent and have taken down a lot of all 5 crime families but the supeevisors and agents didn't and wouldn't let that happen. So , I do believe Dileonardo on his 260 members quote and I also believe the FBI is still missing between 50-60 soldiers . In the recent case regarding Martino and Campos they acknowledged the Gambino family is "Thriving" . It also makes me wonder about Buffalo and that im on the fence regarding if they active and how long theyve been if its true . After reading this book , Then recently rereading the book its obvious the Feds deliberately lie to fit they're own agendas and to nice size degrees, Even to they're own Agents/People

First, saying something could be the case in Buffalo because it's so in New York is apples and bowling balls.

Second, you can't just look at one source in isolation apart from everything else. People who do so tend to be looking for a particular outcome.

The feds don't have any reason to lie about how many members of the Gambino family there are. And their figures for the family have been rather consistent for well over 20 years now. 200 or so seems to be the ceiling. The 260 figure cited by DiLeonardo was a traditional max the family could have. But that doesn't mean there are 50-60 members unknown to law enforcement.

If Gravano identified 21 crews in 1991, when the family was a lot stronger, what chances are there that it had grown to 26 crews 10-15 years later?

DiLeanardo estimated 250 members

And the Garcia investigation was what ? 2 to 3 years after Dileonardo defected , I think the Feds had listed somewhere around 220 members ? I think , Don't quote me on that . So it pretty much fits with Garcia's and Depalmas estimations , I dunno about the Captains being 25 or 26 like he claimed ?

Also Mikey Scars identified more than 20 captains in 2002 and estimated they were at around 250 members.

[NYNighthawk]

Don't give Greg DePalma any credit. In Garcia's book he describes an annual charity golf and dinner tournament in Westchester County that DePalma ran for children with cancer but that the funds did not always end up there.

[gohnjotti]

On a side note respect for DePalma never giving up on his son. Even after he flipped and he hang himself and becoming a vegetable he took care of him in a nursing home and never abandoned him.
There are plenty of regular parentes that arent scumbag criminals that would give up and abandon the kid.

Expect it's not really that simple. DePalma shook down the rabbis at the hospice to take his son into their care, despite his son not being Hebrew or Jewish or whatever. Then, he conducted high-level meetings right in front of his son's comatose body, knowing that the FBI would never bug his son's room.

[JohnnyS]

In my opinion Garcia and DePalma could've included acting captains in that estimation but like what lcnbios wrote Mikey Scars had them at more than 20 in 2002 so not far off and totally unrealistic.

[Super]

any info on petey chops vincini.

[Bklyn21]

On a side note respect for DePalma never giving up on his son. Even after he flipped and he hang himself and becoming a vegetable he took care of him in a nursing home and never abandoned him.
There are plenty of regular parentes that arent scumbag criminals that would give up and abandon the kid.

Yea , But he did use his invalid son as a tool to evade detection and hold meetings over his comatose son's body which his wife despised and had some choice words for him over what he did and what he was doing

[Bklyn21]

any info on petey chops vincini.

Didn't he retire ? In the book he wants nothing to do with Depalma and the Mob

[Pogo The Clown]

Eliminating the double counting I've got got 22 or 23 separate Crews for the Gambinos in the early 2000s. This matches up with Gravano's IDing of 22 Crews in 1991. DePalma was most likely double counting a few Capos to get to the 26 number.


Pogo

[Bklyn21]

Eliminating the double counting I've got got 22 or 23 separate Crews for the Gambinos in the early 2000s. This matches up with Gravano's IDing of 22 Crews in 1991. DePalma was most likely double counting a few Capos to get to the 26 number.


Pogo

He was quoting figures and crazy estimates from the 60s lol