Frank Costello murders

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Antiliar
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by Antiliar »

rayray wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:51 am Was Costello the de facto boss? For some reason I thought Luciano had a fairly good grasp or input while Costello was at the helm.
From everything I've read, Costello was the actual boss from 1947 to 1957, and the acting boss from the 1930s to 47.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

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Antiliar wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:54 pm
rayray wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:51 am Was Costello the de facto boss? For some reason I thought Luciano had a fairly good grasp or input while Costello was at the helm.
From everything I've read, Costello was the actual boss from 1947 to 1957, and the acting boss from the 1930s to 47.
Interesting, I was under the impression that the official "Boss" retains the title until he dies, or is forced into retirement, like Bonanno.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by eboli »

In most cases the official boss keeps the title until he is unable or no longer wants to. There were guys like Bonanno and Magliocco who were forced in retirement. There were guys like Catena and Lombardo who retired. There were guys like Schiro who were chased out of town. And there were guys like Luciano who were deported and that hindered his ability to control the family.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by B. »

As mentioned by Antiliar, a big one is the Willie Moretti murder. Valachi and other theories always pointed to Genovese being more or less solely responsible for this but there isn't basis for it. Along with protocol requiring the boss's approval (especially to kill a high-ranking member close to Costello himself), there is more context to the story.

- A US treasury official visiting California made an offhand comment to Frank Bompensiero about Bompensiero's elevation to capodecina that led him to believe Moretti had been providing information to this official given that Moretti had known connections to the official and San Diego.
- Bompensiero reported it to Jack Dragna, who contacted his Commission rep Tommy Lucchese who then initiated an investigation.
- The investigation/meetings concluded with Moretti's death sentence.
- Magaddino was recorded in his office bug talking about the Moretti murder and implicated Costello in the conspiracy.

So even if Genovese had an interest in Moretti's removal and was enthusiastic about the murder, it was ultimately a national matter that began with the LA family involving the Commission and required Costello's involvement and agreement.
Chris Christie wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:36 am
Antiliar wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:29 pm The big meeting with Lucky Luciano in Havana has been seriously exaggerated. He was no longer the official boss at that point, but still highly respected. Bill Bonanno's account IN THIS CASE (he isn't always accurate) makes the most sense. Costello signed off on it and withdrew his protection, which gave the okay to the man who most wanted to eliminate Siegel: Jack Dragna. So in Siegel's case it was indirect. Costello also permitted a hit, maybe an "open hit" as is usually claimed, on Willie Moretti.
What information do we have pertaining to Costello as a boss in matters regarding his own family. Very little is known about him in that regard. We have the perspective from Joe Bonanno and Valachi didn't appear to have a close relationship with him being in Tony Bender's Genovese aligned crew. We've largely been left with the impression that he was a hands-off boss who, aside from a few close allies, let the daily decisions (within reason) fall on the capos. Seems like that was a trend for all of NY's families at the time.

Just an observation: These so-called coups or internal wars are A) not split equally and B) there's plenty of examples of the smaller faction winning. Going by the formal number of made guys (omitting non-made crew members) the crews of Capone, Masseria, Genovese, Gotti, Massino-Napolitano, Merlino were all minority factions. Their rivals had their own loyalists but I'd argue that a sizeable portion of membership then and now wish to avoid the politics and carry on about their activities. These are the "deadheads" who "can't be counted on" by the busybodys. I remember in Cafaro's testimony he said if he could do it all over again he would only he'd stay away from the boss and just run a club as a soldier. Interesting.

If a member is called to do something they'll do it or face the internal bureaucracy, but with the exception of a few core faction members, the majority of membership cannot be counted on to tool up. I omitted the Periscos from my above example because they were still boss and kept it, however technically Orena the official AB was said to have the larger backing. I'd argue a great deal of them were passive which leveled the playing field for the Persico's 25 member unit. Even the famed Cast War, if realistily you had 2000 people in 5 boroughs all gunning for each other the murder rate would have skyrocketed rather than been limited to 5-10 individuals. Instead, with the murder of Masseria's allies went his power to exert influence to a budding Maranzano who himself wasn't predicted to win months before. It seems even at the highest levels a significant amount of the leadership were either passive or weren't willing to raise up over who held certain political positions.
Great post and an important point about the smaller faction often winning. Another example to add would be the Gagliano-Lucchese faction of the former Reina family. Valachi claimed that their group was a very small minority of the family membership when they began plotting against Pinzolo and Masseria. The recruiting of a small-time neighborhood associate like Valachi, who in turn recruited thugs he knew who were not only accepted but rose in stature overnight, is very telling. Think of John Pappa doing the Joe Scopo murder, or some of the other guys in Persico hit squads going around during that war, some of them not even Italian.

What stands out to me about Genovese/Costello:

- Costello and Genovese were mainlanders who came up in the Masseria family at the same time and continued on as top leaders under Luciano. Most "lore" paints Genovese and Costello as allies during the 1920s and 30s and there are no indications I'm aware of that the two men had any serious issues pre-WWII. We also aren't sure what Costello's position was during this time, which could be a factor.

- Costello was close to New Jersey leader Willie Moretti who was an acting admin member in Genovese's absence. Genovese is said to have been at odds with Moretti (though I don't know of any specifics) yet he ended up close to future New Jersey leaders previously under Moretti, Jerry Catena and Richie Boiardo.

- Costello is said to have been a "hands off" boss, like you said, but Valachi claimed Genovese was upset with Strollo when he returned from Italy because Strollo let others in the family "sew everything up." Who was this in reference to? If Costello was hands-off, it would seem to be a reference to other family leaders not necessarily Costello himself.

- With the last point in mind, who could be considered main Costello loyalists aside from Willie Moretti? One would be Augie Carfano. I'm not aware of other leaders who were "significantly loyal" to Costello though my knowledge is limited.

- Costello seems to have taken no issue with Genovese returning to the US as underboss post-WWII (though Luciano was still official boss for a few years) and they spent many years operating in peace. Genovese's position was hardly just a title either, evidenced by the power he cultivated in the 1950s leading to the Costello shooting.

- Strollo was said by Valachi to have been inducted right before he took over as captain of Genovese's crew and is regarded as Genovese's top guy for decades. He was very close to Carfano, though, and reportedly came close to being murdered along with Carfano, who was at odds with Genovese. Strollo would be killed a few years later while Genovese still had significant power in prison, so even being a Genovese ally for decades was a tentative position.

- Miranda is also made out to be a top Genovese ally given his position as consigliere but this doesn't seem to have stayed true or maybe never was. Miranda is referenced by informants after Genovese's incarceration as being at odds with the Genovese loyalists and eager to gain more power himself. A massively overlooked fact when it comes to power dynamics is that the consigliere was voted in by the membership and not directly chosen by the boss as the underboss is, so Miranda's position wasn't necessarily handpicked by Genovese. The vote could be fixed/influenced, like the boss election sometime is, but Miranda's position and what we know of his role in the 1960s paints him as something other than a diehard Genovese ally.

The best explanation for all of this is the usual conclusion we come to... they are loyalists/allies until circumstances change. They could be paesans from the same village, fellow mainlanders, part of the same crew, same administration, it doesn't matter. Mafia members are allies until they aren't and it's something you see in countless mob conflicts whether it's violent or a political/cold war. With this and the above examples in mind, Costello doesn't seem all that different from Strollo and Miranda when it comes to his relationship with Genovese.

Or maybe the family was held together by Chee Gusae until his death. If Genovese wasn't deported around the time Gusae died, Costello would have been shot in 1937, not 1957. All mysteries in the Genovese family lie in the casket of Chee Gusae.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by MichaelGiovanni »

B. wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:00 pm - With the last point in mind, who could be considered main Costello loyalists aside from Willie Moretti? One would be Augie Carfano. I'm not aware of other leaders who were "significantly loyal" to Costello though my knowledge is limited.
I believe Joe Adonis and Vincent Alo were close with Costello. I don’t know if they were ‘significantly loyal’ but I would place them as Costello allies moreso than Genovese allies. Although I believe Alo didn’t become a captain until the 50’s when Costello’s power was starting to lessen.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by B. »

MichaelGiovanni wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:31 pm
B. wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:00 pm - With the last point in mind, who could be considered main Costello loyalists aside from Willie Moretti? One would be Augie Carfano. I'm not aware of other leaders who were "significantly loyal" to Costello though my knowledge is limited.
I believe Joe Adonis and Vincent Alo were close with Costello. I don’t know if they were ‘significantly loyal’ but I would place them as Costello allies moreso than Genovese allies. Although I believe Alo didn’t become a captain until the 50’s when Costello’s power was starting to lessen.
I thought about those two but wasn't sure. They also strike me as the types that Chris Christie was talking about who were more likely to go about their own business and not "tool up" when push came to shove, at least by that point in their lives.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by Angelo Santino »

B. wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:00 pmGreat post and an important point about the smaller faction often winning. Another example to add would be the Gagliano-Lucchese faction of the former Reina family. Valachi claimed that their group was a very small minority of the family membership when they began plotting against Pinzolo and Masseria. The recruiting of a small-time neighborhood associate like Valachi, who in turn recruited thugs he knew who were not only accepted but rose in stature overnight, is very telling. Think of John Pappa doing the Joe Scopo murder, or some of the other guys in Persico hit squads going around during that war, some of them not even Italian.

What stands out to me about Genovese/Costello:

- Costello and Genovese were mainlanders who came up in the Masseria family at the same time and continued on as top leaders under Luciano. Most "lore" paints Genovese and Costello as allies during the 1920s and 30s and there are no indications I'm aware of that the two men had any serious issues pre-WWII. We also aren't sure what Costello's position was during this time, which could be a factor.

- Costello was close to New Jersey leader Willie Moretti who was an acting admin member in Genovese's absence. Genovese is said to have been at odds with Moretti (though I don't know of any specifics) yet he ended up close to future New Jersey leaders previously under Moretti, Jerry Catena and Richie Boiardo.

- Costello is said to have been a "hands off" boss, like you said, but Valachi claimed Genovese was upset with Strollo when he returned from Italy because Strollo let others in the family "sew everything up." Who was this in reference to? If Costello was hands-off, it would seem to be a reference to other family leaders not necessarily Costello himself.

- With the last point in mind, who could be considered main Costello loyalists aside from Willie Moretti? One would be Augie Carfano. I'm not aware of other leaders who were "significantly loyal" to Costello though my knowledge is limited.

- Costello seems to have taken no issue with Genovese returning to the US as underboss post-WWII (though Luciano was still official boss for a few years) and they spent many years operating in peace. Genovese's position was hardly just a title either, evidenced by the power he cultivated in the 1950s leading to the Costello shooting.

- Strollo was said by Valachi to have been inducted right before he took over as captain of Genovese's crew and is regarded as Genovese's top guy for decades. He was very close to Carfano, though, and reportedly came close to being murdered along with Carfano, who was at odds with Genovese. Strollo would be killed a few years later while Genovese still had significant power in prison, so even being a Genovese ally for decades was a tentative position.

- Miranda is also made out to be a top Genovese ally given his position as consigliere but this doesn't seem to have stayed true or maybe never was. Miranda is referenced by informants after Genovese's incarceration as being at odds with the Genovese loyalists and eager to gain more power himself. A massively overlooked fact when it comes to power dynamics is that the consigliere was voted in by the membership and not directly chosen by the boss as the underboss is, so Miranda's position wasn't necessarily handpicked by Genovese. The vote could be fixed/influenced, like the boss election sometime is, but Miranda's position and what we know of his role in the 1960s paints him as something other than a diehard Genovese ally.

The best explanation for all of this is the usual conclusion we come to... they are loyalists/allies until circumstances change. They could be paesans from the same village, fellow mainlanders, part of the same crew, same administration, it doesn't matter. Mafia members are allies until they aren't and it's something you see in countless mob conflicts whether it's violent or a political/cold war. With this and the above examples in mind, Costello doesn't seem all that different from Strollo and Miranda when it comes to his relationship with Genovese.

Or maybe the family was held together by Chee Gusae until his death. If Genovese wasn't deported around the time Gusae died, Costello would have been shot in 1937, not 1957. All mysteries in the Genovese family lie in the casket of Chee Gusae.
Valachi stated that Genovese could count on 2 out of 6 crews. Even if those numbers are off he claims Genovese's allies were in the minority. The problem we make or factor we overlook are the amount of non-political members who aren't part of the faction trying to take power so we just lump them in as Boss loyalists when they can't be counted on, they're just going along with the system and it doesn't matter to them who's who just as so long as they aren't affected.

But changing circumstances also factor in significantly, friends are friends until they're not. That's one thing the Sopranos got accurate.

Re: Gusae, it's very possible but I doubt it. I think the Genovese arrangement has been a strange creature since the 1920's when it was constituted, in order to get all these people under the banner they all had to reach an agreement around autonomy. It wasn't a group that looked to someone to lead them. Granted there were always admin positions, underneath that existed some crews that really could have been its own Family. I'd argue the same existed with the Gambinos too but under different arrangements.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by B. »

Man, I was hoping it was obvious enough that the Chee Gusae bit was a joke.

Did Valachi specify what the other crew loyal to Genovese was?
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by Pogo The Clown »

Strollo and Catena if my memory is correct.


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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by B. »

Pogo The Clown wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:27 pm Strollo and Catena if my memory is correct.


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That would make the most sense. Not sure if Boiardo had been promoted yet, but Genovese was close with members of that group as well.

If Valachi didn't identify Miranda as one of the crews loyal to Genovese, that plays into what I said about Miranda having his own faction at odds with the pro-Genovese faction in the 1960s and shows that they were never fully on the same page.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by eboli »

Boiardo inherited Catena's crew in 1957. I think Genovese's closer ties to the faction were mostly through Catena. It's possible Miranda was a Genovese loyalist at first and there was a falling-out at a later date or he simply was an admin appointee to please the anti-Genovese members. It's worth noting around the same time in 1958 when Genovese was indicted on the narcotics charges, Miranda's crew was split and Tony Bender got promoted to an admin role. Then a few years later Tony Bender gets killed and there are the references that Miranda is scheming to gain more power.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by Angelo Santino »

I thought it was Strollo and Miranda that Valachi said but I can't say that it wasn't Catena with confidence. I posted those pages on here somewhere but can't locate it. It was a thread involving Genovese crews, I was adamant about there only being 6 traditional crews and B. and Antillar proved that it wasn't a correct number.
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by Pogo The Clown »

It could very have been Miranda. It has been years since I've read Valachi.


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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by B. »

Is it explicitly said anywhere that Boiardo took over for Catena in 1957? I am under the impression that following Moretti's murder, Catena and Boiardo became captains but even then I'm not sure. Catena's crew would have likely gone to Gene Catena. Maybe someone has seen a report that lays it out clearly.

These are names that have come up as captains during the period we're discussing. I'm not sure if there would be overlap or if every one of these guys was a captain circa 1957, but either way I believe we're looking at more than six crews in the late 1950s, even before the Miranda crew was divided and New Jersey ended up with multiple crews.

Adonis/Alo
Strollo
Catena
Boiardo?
Miranda
Pellegrino
Greco
Coppola
Carfano/Angellino
Ricci
Frasca
Biello
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Re: Frank Costello murders

Post by Snakes »

Great thread; I love reading about the Genovese family during this time period.
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