Guzik was there and so were Frankie Rio and Nitti. Capone brought along Moe Annenberg too. Accardo was present and allegedly amused Lansky by getting a tattoo on the boardwalk. Capone did not approve.

Moderator: Capos
Guzik was there and so were Frankie Rio and Nitti. Capone brought along Moe Annenberg too. Accardo was present and allegedly amused Lansky by getting a tattoo on the boardwalk. Capone did not approve.
I don't know a lot on early Chicago but wasn't Rio pushed to the sidelines after Capone went to jail? I have the impression a lot of people didn't like him because he was one of Capone's golden boys and of course he had serious health issues during the last couple of years in his life. I believe Nitti was boss initially and then Ricca's influence continued to grow until he was de facto boss and Nitti was a figurehead who was subservient to him in later years. Ricca had a lot of big money makers who were loyal to him like Campagna, Capezio and Accardo and all of them seem to be rising fast in the organization in the late 30's which is when I suspect Ricca wrestled the power away from Nitti. Also, RIcca had deep ties with NY and I doubt Nitti wanted to fuck with that.Villain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:33 am Also if Capone was a capo by 1930, then that means the Chi crowd still didnt have any type of CN or Camorra hierarchy. It is possible that they received it after the murder of Masseria. Shortly after that Nitto went to jail, same as Capone, and on top of that when Nitto got out of jail he quickly survived a assassination attempt. So that leaves Ricca, Rio and Campagna to takeover the organization. I believe that Nitto became the number two guy under Ricca after Rios death in 1935.
Thats a good thinking but still I believe that after Capone went to jail and Nitto got shot and went to hospital and on top of that he had the whole media around him, the guys who possibly took the acting positions were Ricca as the boss and Rio as his number two guy. Yeah I also remember reading regarding Rio allegedly being hated by the rest of the fellas but still Bioffs and Browns statements says otherwise such as the Christmas Eve 1934 alleged meeting between Rio, Nitto, Ricca, Campagna, Gioe and D'Andrea. You see, according to Willie Bioff or George Brown, Rio was almost present on every important meeting regarding the projectionists unions and he was also the guy who took the responsibility to take care of the problems aka the relay man. For example Maloy was killed on February 4, 1935 and Rio died on February 23 so I dont believe that he was not very active during his last years.eboli wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:11 amI don't know a lot on early Chicago but wasn't Rio pushed to the sidelines after Capone went to jail? I have the impression a lot of people didn't like him because he was one of Capone's golden boys and of course he had serious health issues during the last couple of years in his life. I believe Nitti was boss initially and then Ricca's influence continued to grow until he was de facto boss and Nitti was a figurehead who was subservient to him in later years. Ricca had a lot of big money makers who were loyal to him like Campagna, Capezio and Accardo and all of them seem to be rising fast in the organization in the late 30's which is when I suspect Ricca wrestled the power away from Nitti. Also, RIcca had deep ties with NY and I doubt Nitti wanted to fuck with that.Villain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:33 am Also if Capone was a capo by 1930, then that means the Chi crowd still didnt have any type of CN or Camorra hierarchy. It is possible that they received it after the murder of Masseria. Shortly after that Nitto went to jail, same as Capone, and on top of that when Nitto got out of jail he quickly survived a assassination attempt. So that leaves Ricca, Rio and Campagna to takeover the organization. I believe that Nitto became the number two guy under Ricca after Rios death in 1935.
Wasn't Nitti stepping in as acting boss when Al was out of town before his incarceration? If that's the case I can see why authorities and journalists made the assumption he was Capone's successor. On the other hand I've read Ricca was the guy Chicago used to sent as envoy to New York when important business had to be discussed or a major favor to be asked/returned.Villain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:23 am Who knows, maybe Nitto was really the next in line and maybe thats why he was shot by those detectives but still there are a lot of unexplained situations. I think that the so-called rumour regarding Nitto being Capone's successor was spread by one attorney general i think who gave his opinion that Nitto was going to takeover the Mob after his release from prison. There are also other statements from Bioff or Browne such as Nitto having the last word on the table but that doesnt mean anything since he could've only vouched for these guys, a mistake which later obviously pushed him to commit suicide.
We can only speculate on what was going on before 1930 or 1931, meaning regarding the organizational structure and as I said previously that it is possible before Masserias murder, the Capone crowd didnt have any kind of CN hierarchy but instead they had a capo which was Capone and the rest were "soldiers" and it is possible that he first "answered" to Masseria or Lombardo and later to someone else such as Maranzano or maybe to none. We also have many conflicting infos from that period such as Nitto's alleged headquarters a speakeasy at 901 S. Halsted St, which in fact was also Riccas place. Or one article from the 1930s, in which the Chicago press put out a story to the effect that both Nitto and Ricca had been placed under police surveillance as leaders of the revived Camorra to control all rackets in Chicago.eboli wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:31 amWasn't Nitti stepping in as acting boss when Al was out of town before his incarceration? If that's the case I can see why authorities and journalists made the assumption he was Capone's successor. On the other hand I've read Ricca was the guy Chicago used to sent as envoy to New York when important business had to be discussed or a major favor to be asked/returned.Villain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:23 am Who knows, maybe Nitto was really the next in line and maybe thats why he was shot by those detectives but still there are a lot of unexplained situations. I think that the so-called rumour regarding Nitto being Capone's successor was spread by one attorney general i think who gave his opinion that Nitto was going to takeover the Mob after his release from prison. There are also other statements from Bioff or Browne such as Nitto having the last word on the table but that doesnt mean anything since he could've only vouched for these guys, a mistake which later obviously pushed him to commit suicide.
Yeah, that seems about right. That makes a lot of sense with Ricca stepping up after Nitti's setbacks and it ties well with the timeline of Nitti's shooting, Rio's death, the whole projectionist's union racket and Ricca's trips to NYC. I doubt we will ever find out the full picture, because there's a lot conflicting info out there. In some of the Mary Ferrell documents you even have a CI report that Campagna was Nitti's second in command after Capone went away and even succeeded him for a few months before Ricca took the reins circa '43.Villain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:58 am We can only speculate on what was going on before 1930 or 1931, meaning regarding the organizational structure and as I said previously that it is possible before Masserias murder, the Capone crowd didnt have any kind of CN hierarchy but instead they had a capo which was Capone and the rest were "soldiers" and it is possible that he first "answered" to Masseria or Lombardo and later to someone else such as Maranzano or maybe to none. We also have many conflicting infos from that period such as Nitto's alleged headquarters a speakeasy at 901 S. Halsted St, which in fact was also Riccas place. Or one article from the 1930s, in which the Chicago press put out a story to the effect that both Nitto and Ricca had been placed under police surveillance as leaders of the revived Camorra to control all rackets in Chicago.
So again lets say that Nitto should've taken Capones position as boss...at the beginning he was never mentioned by Gentile or anyone else but instead he mentioned Ricca as Capones close associate...second, Nitto went to jail before Capone and they found some of the Outfits books in his other office in the Loop area, another evidence which I believe gives us a picture that he wasnt the boss since Al never kept books of any kind. Third when Nitto came out of prison, he wasnt on parole but still he was shortly after that almost killed and again took a step back for some time until he recovered. So I believe that this is the exact time period when Ricca took a step up, after all he was arrested with Loverde in 1930 while going to NY and we have also a picture of him with Luciano and Lansky in 1932. So yeah youre again right regarding Ricca being the main connection to NY at the time and as a matter of fact, years later Tommy Eboli referred to Ricca the same as he referred to Vito Genovese.
Yes Campagna is also in the picture too. But I find it interesting that the CI from LA said Ricca was the actual boss. Another possibility that nobody mentions is Rio or is there information that eliminates him?eboli wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:05 amYeah, that seems about right. That makes a lot of sense with Ricca stepping up after Nitti's setbacks and it ties well with the timeline of Nitti's shooting, Rio's death, the whole projectionist's union racket and Ricca's trips to NYC. I doubt we will ever find out the full picture, because there's a lot conflicting info out there. In some of the Mary Ferrell documents you even have a CI report that Campagna was Nitti's second in command after Capone went away and even succeeded him for a few months before Ricca took the reins circa '43.Villain wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:58 am We can only speculate on what was going on before 1930 or 1931, meaning regarding the organizational structure and as I said previously that it is possible before Masserias murder, the Capone crowd didnt have any kind of CN hierarchy but instead they had a capo which was Capone and the rest were "soldiers" and it is possible that he first "answered" to Masseria or Lombardo and later to someone else such as Maranzano or maybe to none. We also have many conflicting infos from that period such as Nitto's alleged headquarters a speakeasy at 901 S. Halsted St, which in fact was also Riccas place. Or one article from the 1930s, in which the Chicago press put out a story to the effect that both Nitto and Ricca had been placed under police surveillance as leaders of the revived Camorra to control all rackets in Chicago.
So again lets say that Nitto should've taken Capones position as boss...at the beginning he was never mentioned by Gentile or anyone else but instead he mentioned Ricca as Capones close associate...second, Nitto went to jail before Capone and they found some of the Outfits books in his other office in the Loop area, another evidence which I believe gives us a picture that he wasnt the boss since Al never kept books of any kind. Third when Nitto came out of prison, he wasnt on parole but still he was shortly after that almost killed and again took a step back for some time until he recovered. So I believe that this is the exact time period when Ricca took a step up, after all he was arrested with Loverde in 1930 while going to NY and we have also a picture of him with Luciano and Lansky in 1932. So yeah youre again right regarding Ricca being the main connection to NY at the time and as a matter of fact, years later Tommy Eboli referred to Ricca the same as he referred to Vito Genovese.
The Torrio - Capone gang was an independent gang, not in LCN. Then around 1928-29 Capone became a made member of LCN. Made by Masseria and an official member of the Masseria Family. He was given the rank of Capo. Masseria gave him permission to make 10 members to be in this decina. So yes Capone and his 10 made men were members of the Masseria Family. They were recognized as a separate LCN Family either after Masseria was killed or after Maranzano was killed. Capone was a charter member of the Commission.aleksandrored wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:34 pm So let me see if I understood, Capone was a masseria capodecina, so you mean he was a member of the "Genovese" family? and after the death of Masseria and Maranzano did they gain independence? Could it have anything to do with the commission, too?
I understood, thanks for the explanation.Frank wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 pmThe Torrio - Capone gang was an independent gang, not in LCN. Then around 1928-29 Capone became a made member of LCN. Made by Masseria and an official member of the Masseria Family. He was given the rank of Capo. Masseria gave him permission to make 10 members to be in this decina. So yes Capone and his 10 made men were members of the Masseria Family. They were recognized as a separate LCN Family either after Masseria was killed or after Maranzano was killed. Capone was a charter member of the Commission.aleksandrored wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:34 pm So let me see if I understood, Capone was a masseria capodecina, so you mean he was a member of the "Genovese" family? and after the death of Masseria and Maranzano did they gain independence? Could it have anything to do with the commission, too?