The Five NY Families and Jersey by the Numbers

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Is this the most recent info we have from the Feds on their numbers and influence?

Crime Families Adapt to Survive, Lowering Profile and Using Need-to-Know Tactics

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mafia-in-n ... 1392778841


Organized Crime's Presence in Labor Groups Is Weaker Today, but Not Totally Gone

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mobs-hold- ... 1392778131

Willi, I can't get into the article, what # Gambino members does the
article quote?

They put the Genovese around 200, and the Lucchese's and Colombo's around 100 but didn't provide any numbers for the Gambino's and Bonanno's. Let me see if I can sign in and copy that part of the article.

thanks, 2014 is fairly recent.

[willychichi]

Here it is SP:

For more than two decades, New York City's five organized-crime families were plagued by convictions brought on by strengthened federal laws and the increasing habit of higher-ranking members cooperating with the government.

Those years of high-profile decline created a perception that the city's mafia is on the verge of extinction. But law-enforcement officials and mob experts say the five families, while not the force they once were, are far from sleeping with the fishes. They have survived, the experts said, because of their persistence and ability to adapt.

"I don't know that I'd say La Cosa Nostra was what it was in its heyday but I wouldn't say by any means it's gone away," said Richard Frankel, special agent in charge of the Criminal Division for the Federal Bureau of Investigation's New York office.

Mr. Frankel, who supervises the FBI's organized crime squads in New York, said he believes the city's Cosa Nostra has quietly staged a comeback and is now more powerful than it has been in years.

Despite the waves of prosecutions, each of the five mafia "borgatas"—the Genovese, Gambino, Luchese, Bonanno and Colombo—"still exists and each still has its hierarchy," said John Buretta, a former federal prosecutor who headed the organized-crime unit for the U.S. attorney's office in Brooklyn.

One recent indictment that attests to organized crime's staying power, authorities said, is the Jan. 23 arrest of 78-year-old Vincent "Vinnie" Asaro, in connection with the 1978 Lufthansa heist of $6 million in cash and jewels at John F. Kennedy Airport.

The reputed Bonanno captain and four other reputed Bonanno members were charged with running a loan-sharking, extortion, gambling and murder enterprise from 1969—nine years before the Lufthansa robbery—to the present day. The defendants have pleaded not guilty.

The five families are no longer the federal government's top criminal concern in New York City. Counterterrorism and other criminal networks—such as Russian, Balkan, Asian and African organized syndicates that generally coexist peacefully and sometimes collaborate with the five families—have attracted investigators away from La Cosa Nostra, Mr. Frankel said.

Years ago, the FBI had a squad dedicated to each family. Now there are two: C-5, which handles the Genoveses, Bonannos and Colombos, and C-16, assigned to the Gambinos and Lucheses. A 2010 audit by the Justice Department's Office of the Inspector General found that after Sept. 11, 2001, organized crime is the FBI's sixth priority behind terrorism, espionage, cybercrime, public corruption and protecting civil rights.

At the NYPD, amid budget squeezes, the current 5,000-detective headcount is about 2,000 below the 2002 level. There has been an "across the board" reduction of detectives in precincts and specialty squads including organized crime, said Michael Palladino, president of the NYPD's detectives' union. The number of detectives investigating organized crime has remained stable in the past three years, though. The NYPD didn't return a request for comment.

As the ranks of organized-crime investigators decreased, the mafia adapted to law enforcement's investigative techniques. Unlike the in-your-face approach that media mob star John Gotti adopted in the 1980s, today's mafia has reverted to its roots and tried to become as invisible as possible, officials and experts say.

For instance, the Genovese family, which has traditionally been the largest, most powerful and most secretive, now likely uses a rotating panel of leaders to run day-to-day affairs to avoid any one boss from being targeted by prosecutors, Mr. Buretta said. Other crime families use a "street boss" model where lesser-known mobsters carry out the orders of imprisoned leaders, he said.

Today's crime families are also less territorial and more open to collaboration than the mobsters of past decades, said Inspector John Denesopolis, the commanding officer of the New York Police Department's Organized Crime unit. "As long as they are earning, they are less concerned," he said.

Another emerging trend in the past several years, Mr. Denesopolis said, is mafia families emulating the need-to-know tactics seen in terrorist cells—one group in the family isn't made aware of what crimes another group in the same family is involved in.

What hasn't changed much since the 1930s are the five families' bread and butter crimes: loan-sharking, extortion, gambling, narcotics and infiltrating organized labor, Mr. Frankel said. They aren't as involved in sophisticated financial frauds—such as stock pump-and-dump scams—as they were in the early 1990s, Mr. Frankel said. But they are resourceful when it comes to new opportunities, he added, citing recent prosecutions of offshore Internet gambling websites and trafficking in Viagra.

Hundreds of inducted members in the five families are still behind these enterprises. The Genovese lead with close to 200 such "made" men, while the Colombos and Lucheses are the smallest, with about 100 each, said Jerry Capeci, a longtime crime reporter who operates the website Gang Land News. The numbers are less than years ago but not substantially so, he said. There are also several thousand additional criminal associates, Mr. Denesopolis said.

Leadership ranks are also being replenished as many "sophisticated, capable" mafia veterans who are currently incarcerated will soon complete their sentences, said Mark Feldman, chief assistant Brooklyn District Attorney and a former chief of the Brooklyn U.S. Attorney's organized-crime unit.

Law-enforcement officials say one trend has worked in their favor lately: the growing frequency of soldiers and leaders breaking oath of Omerta—the pledge allegiance to the family and agreeing to a code of honor that includes a vow of silence if arrested.


In 2004, Bonanno leader Joseph Massino shocked the underworld by becoming a government witness—the first head of one of the five families to do so. He has testified or provided information against other accused mobsters in several cases, including in the latest Lufthansa heist charges. He testified against reputed Bonanno leader Vincent Basciano, who was convicted in 2011 on racketeering and murder charges.

"Joe's cooperation had to shake the confidence in the code of honor in as dramatic a way as any cooperator ever had," Mr. Buretta said.

A recently retired NYPD detective who worked organized crime for more than 20 years, said old-timers followed the rules "to the letter" and would never talk to him or his partners after an arrest. "With these young kids, the rules are just suggestions," he said.

"They're younger, a lot of them have young kids and they don't want to look at 25 to life," he said. We sit them down and tell them, 'Listen, the next the time you pick up your baby daughter she's going to be 27 years old.' "

[willychichi]

Here's the other one:

Thirty years ago, customers paid more for the salmon, shrimp and other seafood dishes they ordered at New York City restaurants because the Mafia controlled the truckers union that made deliveries to the Fulton Fish Market, according to law-enforcement officials and court records.

Fish spoils quickly, so the Mafia allegedly extorted payments from officials who ran the market by threatening delivery delays. In turn, fish-market officials demanded payoffs from restaurants, which passed that cost onto its patrons, law-enforcement officials said.

The exploitation of unions by organized crime has been an "unpleasant fact of life" since the late 19th century and "thrived practically unopposed" until the mid-1970s, James Jacobs, a professor at New York University School of Law, wrote in his 2006 book, "Mobsters, Unions, and Feds: The Mafia and the American Labor Movement."

The five families controlled construction, garment, waste hauling, trucking, airport cargo and other unions, he said in an interview. Paying extra to do business in New York—a so-called mob tax—"was just the way it was; it was accepted. You had to deal with them."

That started changing in the 1980s under then Manhattan U.S. Attorney Rudolph Giuliani, Mr. Jacobs said.

"I think he's the most important organized-crime prosecutor in American history," he added. "I don't think he really gets enough credit for that."

In 1986, for example, federal prosecutors in Mr. Giuliani's office gained convictions against the leadership of all five families on accusations that the Mafia's control of concrete labor unions enabled them to demand a 2% kickback on concrete used in new building projects in New York City over $2 million.

A case brought by federal prosecutors in Brooklyn in 1990 alleged that the five families used a corrupt union to fix bids in exchange for receiving tens of millions of dollars in kickbacks on a $150 million contract to replace windows in New York City Housing Authority buildings.

Two high-ranking members and one soldier were convicted in that trial and five people were acquitted.

Still, Mr. Jacobs and other experts said that while the Mafia's hold on unions today has weakened, the Mafia's influence isn't totally lost.

Mr. Jacobs said there are still cases in which government-installed monitors are "trying to rehabilitate formerly mobbed-up unions" as well as new labor-racketeering prosecutions being brought against organized-crime members.

After the prosecutions "some unions were definitely cleaned up, other unions weren't completely clean and other unions…were cleaned up but have been infiltrated again," said Richard Frankel, special agent in charge of the Criminal Division for the Federal Bureau of Investigation's New York office.

A law-enforcement official said Luchese and Genovese remain the most active of the five crime families when it comes to infiltrating and exploiting unions.

[Wiseguy]

Is this the most recent info we have from the Feds on their numbers and influence?

Crime Families Adapt to Survive, Lowering Profile and Using Need-to-Know Tactics

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mafia-in-n ... 1392778841


Organized Crime's Presence in Labor Groups Is Weaker Today, but Not Totally Gone

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mobs-hold- ... 1392778131

Willi, I can't get into the article, what # Gambino members does the
article quote?

They put the Genovese around 200, and the Lucchese's and Colombo's around 100 but didn't provide any numbers for the Gambino's and Bonanno's. Let me see if I can sign in and copy that part of the article.

In the 2010 case against Danny Marino, the feds cited 200 members. A 2013 article had the Bonannos at about 100 members.

[B.]

Michael DiLeonardo, a top captain who acted as an aide to the Gambino administration, claimed that the Gambino family had ~250 members circa 2002, with a cap of around ~260. He is the most reliable source when it comes to these estimates given his position prior to being shelved. Something to keep in mind when considering Capeci's estimates and LE estimates.

Since he flipped in 2002 wouldn't his info have been factored into the 2005 estimate? A lot of Gambino members cooperated during this time. In addition to DiLeonardo there was Borghesi, Fappiano, DePalma, D'Angelo and Cassarino. With all of those informants it is hard to imagine almost 70-90 members going unidentifide by LE.


Pogo

Keep in mind there is a difference between unidentified and unconfirmed, and it's not as if those 70-90 names would be completely unknown. The feds have a fairly strict procedure for confirming members, often requiring three sources. Their official estimates may be members that they've confirmed, not necessarily suspected members. Any number of unconfirmed members could be well-known as associates or even suspected members, but the feds simply don't have the sources (yet).

DiLeonardo himself likely didn't know the name of every member he estimates, but given his relationship with Junior Gotti and other administration members (including serving as a liaison between the administration and other captains for a time), he likely had an idea about the number of slots they were filling. We know from Scarpa, Gravano, and D'Arco that the family leaders maintain a pretty solid hold on their own membership count and to some degree even the membership of other families.

[Wiseguy]

Michael DiLeonardo, a top captain who acted as an aide to the Gambino administration, claimed that the Gambino family had ~250 members circa 2002, with a cap of around ~260. He is the most reliable source when it comes to these estimates given his position prior to being shelved. Something to keep in mind when considering Capeci's estimates and LE estimates.

Since he flipped in 2002 wouldn't his info have been factored into the 2005 estimate? A lot of Gambino members cooperated during this time. In addition to DiLeonardo there was Borghesi, Fappiano, DePalma, D'Angelo and Cassarino. With all of those informants it is hard to imagine almost 70-90 members going unidentifide by LE.


Pogo

Keep in mind there is a difference between unidentified and unconfirmed, and it's not as if those 70-90 names would be completely unknown. The feds have a fairly strict procedure for confirming members, often requiring three sources. Their official estimates may be members that they've confirmed, not necessarily suspected members. Any number of unconfirmed members could be well-known as associates or even suspected members, but the feds simply don't have the sources (yet).

DiLeonardo himself likely didn't know the name of every member he estimates, but given his relationship with Junior Gotti and other administration members (including serving as a liaison between the administration and other captains for a time), he likely had an idea about the number of slots they were filling. We know from Scarpa, Gravano, and D'Arco that the family leaders maintain a pretty solid hold on their own membership count and to some degree even the membership of other families.

260 - 260 members is still a pretty big outlier compared to just about every other membership figure for Gambinos in the early 2000s. 15 years earlier, those numbers would make sense. But not in 2002. It's why, when it comes to membership estimates, I tend to look at general consensus from multiple sources rather than just one source.

[Pogo The Clown]

Keep in mind there is a difference between unidentified and unconfirmed, and it's not as if those 70-90 names would be completely unknown. The feds have a fairly strict procedure for confirming members, often requiring three sources. Their official estimates may be members that they've confirmed, not necessarily suspected members. Any number of unconfirmed members could be well-known as associates or even suspected members, but the feds simply don't have the sources (yet).

DiLeonardo himself likely didn't know the name of every member he estimates, but given his relationship with Junior Gotti and other administration members (including serving as a liaison between the administration and other captains for a time), he likely had an idea about the number of slots they were filling. We know from Scarpa, Gravano, and D'Arco that the family leaders maintain a pretty solid hold on their own membership count and to some degree even the membership of other families.

Good points but I'm not sure those criteria are used for these estimates. For example thorughout the 80s we saw the 250 figure given. So evidently they had no trouble confirming those members (or possibly including suspected members in their estimates). I don't see how they would have been able to ID the 250 during the 80s but missed 70+ for the mid 2000s. Especially when we considering how many members informants they had during that period.


Pogo

[B.]

It would be good to know what their criteria / methodology is for the public estimates and whether the same methodology has been used throughout the years.

A couple points to consider:
- When Gotti infamously reminded Gigante how many slots they had open to be filled, this implied that the Gambinos had kept their slots pretty filled up that point. They continued to induct members after this point, through the 90s and into the 2000s, and though members died off during this period it doesn't seem to have been an overwhelming number.

- The families allowed a new rule to induct two additional members each Christmas in addition to the standard replacement of deceased members. If the families were struggling to keep their numbers up like the LE estimates imply, I can't understand why they would add the +2 rule. The logic implies that they are maintaining something close to their cap numbers, otherwise the deceased members would leave more than enough room for new members.

- Outside of anecdotal talk, I haven't seen any evidence that the recruitment pool has dried up or that the families have refused to induct new members. This doesn't take "quality" into account (something that has been criticized in new recruits going back to the 1920s), but that is an entirely different topic from them simply not making members or not being able to find members to make. We have random stories like Louie Milito having to be snuck into the family because John Rizzo Sr. didn't want to induct any of his associates back in the 1970s, but that is circumstantial and was a long time ago. I haven't seen much about the NYC families refusing to induct members except for cases with specific reasons.

- Also not sure where the evidence is that the FBI or LE in general has confidential informants with extensive knowledge of the membership in each crew throughout NYC, NJ, Florida and other areas connected to NYC families. This is another one of those anecdotal ideas that gets repeated but doesn't seem to be substantiated. I do believe the FBI has a large number of sources (and as we know, always has), but just a look through many CI files will show you what amounts to little more than "fresh street talk" (remember too that FBI files literally use the term "street talk"). I believe the FBI knows a lot, maybe more than they ever have, but I'm not convinced they have a comprehensive, microscopic view of each family and can confirm the information on top of that.

[Wiseguy]

It would be good to know what their criteria / methodology is for the public estimates and whether the same methodology has been used throughout the years.

A couple points to consider:
- When Gotti infamously reminded Gigante how many slots they had open to be filled, this implied that the Gambinos had kept their slots pretty filled up that point. They continued to induct members after this point, through the 90s and into the 2000s, and though members died off during this period it doesn't seem to have been an overwhelming number.

- The families allowed a new rule to induct two additional members each Christmas in addition to the standard replacement of deceased members. If the families were struggling to keep their numbers up like the LE estimates imply, I can't understand why they would add the +2 rule. The logic implies that they are maintaining something close to their cap numbers, otherwise the deceased members would leave more than enough room for new members.

- Outside of anecdotal talk, I haven't seen any evidence that the recruitment pool has dried up or that the families have refused to induct new members. This doesn't take "quality" into account (something that has been criticized in new recruits going back to the 1920s), but that is an entirely different topic from them simply not making members or not being able to find members to make. We have random stories like Louie Milito having to be snuck into the family because John Rizzo Sr. didn't want to induct any of his associates back in the 1970s, but that is circumstantial and was a long time ago. I haven't seen much about the NYC families refusing to induct members except for cases with specific reasons.

- Also not sure where the evidence is that the FBI or LE in general has confidential informants with extensive knowledge of the membership in each crew throughout NYC, NJ, Florida and other areas connected to NYC families. This is another one of those anecdotal ideas that gets repeated but doesn't seem to be substantiated. I do believe the FBI has a large number of sources (and as we know, always has), but just a look through many CI files will show you what amounts to little more than "fresh street talk" (remember too that FBI files literally use the term "street talk"). I believe the FBI knows a lot, maybe more than they ever have, but I'm not convinced they have a comprehensive, microscopic view of each family and can confirm the information on top of that.

Of course, that meeting between Gotti and Gigante was in 1988. Before Gravano and several other defectors. And nearly 15 years before the time in question. For whatever reason, i.e. defections, slower to replace guys due to law enforcement heat, etc., there was a marked decline in Gambino membership estimates by the mid-1990s to early-2000s when compared to figures from the 1980s.

The FBI may not know about every member but they have the majority of them identified. By 2002 they had 20 years of intel built up (after the feds got serious again about LCN). I just don't see how 60 or 70 guys would have managed to avoid identification by that point.

[Pogo The Clown]

By my count the Gambinos lost 112 members (counting defections) since 1998. The number is much higher of course since there are undoubtedly many dead members that I have missed. I'm sure they have made a lot of new members since 1998 but I seriously doubt they have come close to replacing all of these losses.


A different time frame but I'm sure they also lost a comparible number of members from the 80s to the mid 2000s that would have likewise not have fully been replaced.


Pogo

[willychichi]

The FBI reports here that in 2010 the Gambino's had at least 200 made members

DANIEL MARINO, a longtime member of the Gambino Family, was a boss who presided over at least 200 fully inducted or “made” mafia members, as well as hundreds of associates who committed crimes on behalf of the family. THOMAS OREFICE and ONOFRIO MODICA were soldiers of the Gambino Family acting under MARINO’s supervision. OREFICE and MODICA each supervised crews that included DOMINICK DIFIORE, ANTHONY MANZELLA, MICHAEL SCOTTO, MICHAEL SCARPACI, THOMAS SCARPACI, DAVID EISLER, and SALVATORE BORGIA. The iIndictment also charges other individuals who committed crimes with and for the Gambino Family, including STEVE MAIURRO, KEITH DELLITALIA, SUZANNE PORCELLI, and ANTHONY VECCHIONE.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/newyo ... her-crimes

[Wiseguy]

The FBI reports here that in 2010 the Gambino's had at least 200 made members

DANIEL MARINO, a longtime member of the Gambino Family, was a boss who presided over at least 200 fully inducted or “made” mafia members, as well as hundreds of associates who committed crimes on behalf of the family. THOMAS OREFICE and ONOFRIO MODICA were soldiers of the Gambino Family acting under MARINO’s supervision. OREFICE and MODICA each supervised crews that included DOMINICK DIFIORE, ANTHONY MANZELLA, MICHAEL SCOTTO, MICHAEL SCARPACI, THOMAS SCARPACI, DAVID EISLER, and SALVATORE BORGIA. The iIndictment also charges other individuals who committed crimes with and for the Gambino Family, including STEVE MAIURRO, KEITH DELLITALIA, SUZANNE PORCELLI, and ANTHONY VECCHIONE.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/newyo ... her-crimes

That's the source I've cited in relation to the Gambinos. A similar press release came out when Danny Leo was charged and also mentioned about 200 Genovese members. To me, those hold more weight than most articles or books.

[B.]

New LCNBios about Primo Cassarino has Cassarino's estimate circa 2000 at 200 Gambino members, apparently from conversation with other unspecified members.

http://lcnbios.blogspot.com/2018/11/coo ... arino.html

DiLeonardo's ~250 estimate circa 2002 should still factor in his higher rank, relationship to top members of the administration, and his general knowledge/awareness of the family, all of which give him added weight in my opinion, but Cassarino's estimate definitely gives additional credibility to the ~200 number.

[Etna]

Does anyone know the cap assigned the Bonanno, Colombo & Lucchese families?

[Pogo The Clown]

Does anyone know the cap assigned the Bonanno, Colombo & Lucchese families?

From what has been posted. Not sure if Capeci is refring to their cap or just listing the biggest the family ever got. Or if there is a difference between the two. The Bonannos reached 300 members in the early days and regularly reached over the 140 max that D'Arco listed so who knows. According to Joe Bonanno the Gambinos were the biggest family so they would have had to have had well over the 300 max listed back then.


Genovese:
Capeci max: 400 members
D’Arco max: 300 members


Gambino:
Capeci max: 300 members
D’Arco max: 300 members
DiLeonardo max: 260 members


Bonanno:
Capeci max: 300 members
D'Arco max: 125-140 members


Colombo:
Capeci max: 200 members
D’Arco max: 150 members


Lucchese;
Capeci max: 175 members
D’Arco max: 125-140 members