John Rosselli / Tony Pinelli / LA Transfers from Chicago

[Confederate]

I agree about appreciating each other's input which would include my input also.
Why do you think Roselli went to L.A. in the first place? Why wasn't the L.A. Family involved in the Hollywood Extortion during the Dragna years since it was on their territory and Roselli was supposedly a member of their Family? These are all good questions that are difficult to answer so that is why there is a discrepancy. I would appreciate your insight into these questions and at the end of the day we can agree to disagree if need be. Another thought might be that Roselli belonged to both Families. Maybe he belonged to Chicago and then after many years out in L.A. he actually was formally made into that Family but was still like a Chicago guy which would explain the 1940's extortion case and his intense involvement with Chicago. Everything I ever read states that he was a Chicago guy first and foremost before L.A. which doesn't mean he didn't belong to L.A. also.

[Antiliar]

The Hollywood extortion case wasn't limited to Chicago. It also involved the Genovese (then under Luciano) Family in New York, Los Angeles and the Jewish groups (Meyer Lansky, Lepke Buchalter, and Longy Zwillman). So Roselli was involved, but as a member of the Los Angeles Family. Jack Dragna worked closely with the Outfit on a lot of things, and this is one example. Capone tried to visit Los Angeles in the late 1920s, Dragna and Roselli were arrested with Charlie Fischetti in 1930 (when Joe Ardizzone was still running Los Angeles), and the killing of Bugsy Siegel was discussed with Jack Guzik and Murray Humphreys before it took place. The Families cooperated with each other. It wasn't just one Family running the extortion racket.

The documentation I have shows that Roselli most likely was not a Chicago member before he was a member under Dragna, and a member cannot belong to two Families at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Yes, maybe everything you read says Roselli was a member of the Outfit first or the whole time, but oftentimes the history books get corrected. This is one of those times.

[Confederate]

The 1943 big Hollywood Extortion case indicted 8 men:
1). Nitti
2). Campagna
3). Ricca
4). Andrea
5). Maritote
6). Gio
7). Pierce
8).Roselli
Nitti committed suicide, and the charges against Pierce were dropped. 6 Chicago Outfit men were convicted. No mention of any men from New York or anyone outside of Chicago.

[Antiliar]

You left out Louis Kaufman, who worked for Lepke and was from New Jersey. Roselli lived in Los Angeles, so he was outside of Chicago. Another Lepke guy who was involved was Harry Sherman of New York. Another guy who was involved, but put away before the 1943 indictment, was George Scalise. He was a member of the Genovese Family in the Augie Carfano crew and was a top union guy. Willie Bioff's testimony tells of New York and New Jersey being involved. Since he was only an associate, he wasn't privy to high-level details, but he knew enough that he could testify to other Families being involved.

[Confederate]

You left out Louis Kaufman, who worked for Lepke and was from New Jersey. Roselli lived in Los Angeles, so he was outside of Chicago. Another Lepke guy who was involved was Harry Sherman of New York. Another guy who was involved, but put away before the 1943 indictment, was George Scalise. He was a member of the Genovese Family in the Augie Carfano crew and was a top union guy. Willie Bioff's testimony tells of New York and New Jersey being involved. Since he was only an associate, he wasn't privy to high-level details, but he knew enough that he could testify to other Families being involved.

Did you happen to read Willie Bioff's Testimony? If so, why weren't the other guys indicted at the same time?

[Confederate]

Also, as a side note, I got 2 PM'S telling me about a guy named Kenny "Kenji" Gallo who was a Los Angeles associate and knew quite a bit about the L.A. Family. I read his two articles and they were very interesting. They are called the BREAKSHOT BLOG and were written in December of 2013.
In both articles, he talks about Johnny Roselli, the Outfit and the L.A. Family. In each article, he specifically says that Johnny Roselli was a member of the Chicago Outfit all the time. He also says how Roselli was present in 1947 for a making Ceremony in Los Angeles and was invited to be there because he lived in L.A. and was an Outfit member and close friend of Jack Dragna. His articles are outstanding. You might not agree with him but keep an open mind.

[B.]

Antiliar -- good points about Fratianno's book. It is filled with "conversations" and dialogue that Fratianno is supposedly recalling from memory, along with other potential inaccuracies like you mentioned.

What I was referring to from his book re: Roselli's transfer is also backed up by an informant in at least one 1968 FBI document I've seen:


There Roselli is clearly ID'd as a Los Angeles family member prior to his transfer. It goes on to say that Fratianno's transfer was not accepted.

[Lupara]

Then we are agreed, Roselli was made into L.A. then transfered back to be under the protection of Chicago in the East and there will be peace.

Confederate, Antiliar: look, we are all reasonable men here. We don't have to give each other assurances by showing Mary Ferrell documents and naming sources as if we are lawyers like Frank DeSimone.

[Confederate]

Antiliar: if you know Kenji Gallo then you know he states the opposite. In his two articles he specifically states that Roselli belonged to the Outfit all the time. So, in conclusion, since there are opposite conflicting stories by Informants and/or book authors, then it all depends upon which one you choose to believe. There really is no other to way to look at it. No need to debate it anymore. LOL

[Villain]

- I couldn't find confirmation that Franzone tried to take over SF. We know little about him, except that he was previously associated with the North Side Crew, as was Galiano. Franzone was reportedly a capo in SF, so he must have transferred and later transferred back to Chicago and became inactive.

I completely agree on this since according to most infos, theres really no free time space to include Franzone as capo of the Northsiders since we have DeGeorge and possibly during one short period or he possibly was DeGeorges second in command until he fled the city. When the bosses got out in 47, that same year or the next Prio became the official boss of the Northsiders, probably rewarded for previously siding with the winners. I think that the conflict was between the Northsiders and the Elmwood Park crew under Capezio and Accardo, follwed by many betrayals from Benevento against Accardo or Prio against DeGeorge. Many members were killed and even Cerones cousin Frank survived a shotgun blast in his back.

[Pogo The Clown]

Then we are agreed, Roselli was made into L.A. then transfered back to be under the protection of Chicago in the East and there will be peace.

Confederate, Antiliar: look, we are all reasonable men here. We don't have to give each other assurances by showing Mary Ferrell documents and naming sources as if we are lawyers like Frank DeSimone.

Certainly they can present a bill for such services; after all... we are not Communists.


Pogo

[Villain]

In addition, i think that Roselli himself confirmed that first he came to Chicago and met Capone through Diamond Esposito which explaines his close connection to Ricca, who in turn allegedly gave money to the youngster to travel to LA and probably established his connections over there.

I think its safe to say that Roselli was sent by the Outfit and became a member of the LA fam but never lost his connections to the Outfit which in fact was the main reason that later brought him back "home". There were many members who switched crews more than once during Prohibition such as Moro and Canzioneri and Roselli was a similar case who did the same thing a little bit later since he was younger than the previous members

[Antiliar]

Then we are agreed, Roselli was made into L.A. then transfered back to be under the protection of Chicago in the East and there will be peace.

Confederate, Antiliar: look, we are all reasonable men here. We don't have to give each other assurances by showing Mary Ferrell documents and naming sources as if we are lawyers like Frank DeSimone.

I don't like violence, Lupara. I'm a businessman. Blood is a big expense.

[Antiliar]

Roselli passed through Chicago from Boston in 1923/24 when Torrio was the Outfit boss, and for health reasons quickly moved to California where he worked with or for Tony Cornero in 1925 to at least 1926. He made another brief visit to Chicago in 1927 or 28, where he met Capone for the first time, then returned to Los Angeles. It was after that he associated with members of the Los Angeles Family. He wasn't made in Chicago but met Chicago people and was given a referral to people in the Los Angeles Family. At some point he was made into the Los Angeles Family and started working with producers Bryan Foy and Harry Cohn, which is how he got his hands in the Hollywood film industry.

[Lupara]

Roselli passed through Chicago from Boston in 1923/24 when Torrio was the Outfit boss, and for health reasons quickly moved to California where he worked with or for Tony Cornero in 1925 to at least 1926.

What kind of health reasons did he have at such a young age?