Sammy the rat

[Pete]

I think blaming gotti for Sammy flipping is kinda crazy. There's many guys that went to jail over someone else's big mouth and they didn't flip. Sammy did what he did. No one else's fault but his. Even if gotti didn't get caught on those tapes they still would have had Sammy at some point and he would be doing life

[BobbyPazzo]

Bottom line Sammy's a piece of shit rat. There's no excuse for what he did.... John gotti is the worst boss in the history of the ny families. He was a street guy and stand up no doubt but he didn't want his guys to take please mostly because that admits the existence of cosa Nostra am I correct ? Then wff was he doing by running around like a jerkoff for cameras and the papers? His big mouth brought that Family down and the long sentences because he had that no plea rule got rid of anyone who was capable of decent leadership for the most part. Then junior? His moron brother ? Ridiculous. Junior is such a clown. I read that book and I literally hated him more and more as each chapter passed. What a joke! And like I said in a previous thread ... The fact his moron grandson is caught up in the nonsense he's in shows how poorly he managed money and cared less about the future of his blood family. With like one exception the chin's grandkids are set for life and have legit business interests. This kid was a wheel man robbing a bank for 5 g's between three people. I can't with this shit. Most of the time I don't touch on certain threads or shit that comes up in them because it's not worth the time or the headache but this guy was a tough sob and kept his mouth shut when the shit hit the fan. Too bad he didn't tame his tounge in that apartment.

[SonnyBlackstein]

There's a huge misconception about Gotti. That he was LCN to the core.
The last thing Gotti was, is LCN.
Gotti killed a boss to save his own skin. Courted publicity. Killed guys for no reason except petty jealousy or didn't administer the appropriate tribulations etc etc.
Standup is ALL Gotti was.

[NYNighthawk]

I have a gut feeling that Sammy will be a commentator on the evening news for his view on organized crime. He may end up lecturing at colleges and writing another book.

[Rocco]

I have a gut feeling that Sammy will be a commentator on the evening news for his view on organized crime. He may end up lecturing at colleges and writing another book.

He cant because he cant make money on a book etc. That's the law at least. Only thing he can do with what Franzese does. Preach against LCN , Gambling and OC. Which in a sense is still making money off talkin about you criminal past. That's what Alite is doing and a bunch of others. Its pretty much a scam. There are no longer thousands of Italian young males at risk of being sucked up into LCN. lol They are live in the suburbs now. The only thing that are risk of is Steriod abuse and excessive hair gel. And going broke trying to look and dress rich.... lmao.

This thread has turned into old news really. You got people who know Gotti ruined LCN as we knew it. And then the Gotti fans that think he was the man. The guy was a moron plain and simple. If you are in the life. do everything the opposite of what that guy did and you do ok for the most part. Don't hang around with heroin dealers, don't be high profile and pose for the FBI, don't become a degenerate gambler, don't break the rules and kill the boss because your crew got caught dealing heroin, Really besides not ratting. He pretty much was the opposite of what LCN was suppose to be. So was AL Capone. Both knuckleheads. People that think these guys were great believe in hollywoods version of a gangster. And its anything but LCN>

[Rocco]

I have a gut feeling that Sammy will be a commentator on the evening news for his view on organized crime. He may end up lecturing at colleges and writing another book.

He cant because he cant make money on a book etc. That's the law at least. Only thing he can do with what Franzese does. Preach against LCN , Gambling and OC. Which in a sense is still making money off talkin about you criminal past. That's what Alite is doing and a bunch of others. Its pretty much a scam. There are no longer thousands of Italian young males at risk of being sucked up into LCN. lol They are live in the suburbs now. The only thing that are risk of is Steriod abuse and excessive hair gel. And going broke trying to look and dress rich.... lmao.

This thread has turned into old news really. You got people who know Gotti ruined LCN as we knew it. And then the Gotti fans that think he was the man. The guy was a moron plain and simple. If you are in the life. do everything the opposite of what that guy did and you do ok for the most part. Don't hang around with heroin dealers, don't be high profile and pose for the FBI, don't become a degenerate gambler, don't break the rules and kill the boss because your crew got caught dealing heroin, Really besides not ratting. He pretty much was the opposite of what LCN was suppose to be. So was AL Capone. Both knuckleheads. People that think these guys were great believe in hollywoods version of a gangster. And its anything but LCN>

As for Sammy. Really if Paul killed John and Gene Gotti. Sammy would not have been at the top. I believe that . He would not have exposed himself to a life sentence. 10-15yr for labor racketeering..most likely. Gotti's rule devastated the Gambino family. So many guys got so much time. Guys in that life are divided into two groups. Guys that still idealize Gotti(one who were not incarcerated for decades) and guys that have learned from his gross mistakes. Besides Merlino you don't see too many knuckleheads out there being high profile? Merlino will die in jail someday. No doubt. You cant take on the federal government and win. They will always get you in the long run.

[SonnyBlackstein]

The only thing that they are at risk of is Steriod abuse and excessive hair gel.

Merlino will die in jail someday. No doubt. You cant take on the federal government and win. They will always get you in the long run.

This. 1000%

[Dwalin2014]

In your opinion, if Gotti didn't kill Castellano and delayed by going into hiding or something, and Castellano lived to the sentencing and was put away for 100 years with the others, would they still continue to try to kill Gotti, doing what Castellano wanted from behind bars? Or could it be possible that the new boss would have dropped the matter, or that Gotti would have become boss anyway? Because, for example, Tony Ducks didn't really hate Buddy Luongo and could theoretically still give orders from behind bars, but Amuso and Casso wanted Luongo dead and he went along with it, as if he was now powerless. So, the question is: was it really necessary for Gotti to kill Castellano right away, without waiting for him to go to jail for the rest of his life? Because on one had, Tony Ducks seemed to have lost his power after he was imprisoned, but Carmine Persico for example, still continued to make bodies drop for years in the future: had the judge George Aronwald whacked (although the triggermen were supposed to kill his son, the prosecutor) and the even directed his loyalists against Orena during the war in the 90s (successfully, to a certain point). So, why the difference: Persico maintaining the power and Tony Ducks losing it to Amuso and Casso? And what about Paul Castellano? In your opinion, was he powerful enough to be able to rule outside prison without ever leaving it, or would have the ones outside just told him to fuck off and mind his everyday prison life? I understand that the "what if" questions can be endless, but still, in this case it's to understand how much was it actually necessary for Gotti to grab the power in that way. If Castellano was removed as a result of his sentencing and inability to "rule appropriately" from prison, but kept alive, then Gigante would have no reason for wanting Gotti dead, no DeCicco murder and no conspiracy conviction for Manna etc (although for Manna there was still the Irving Schiff hit).

[SonnyBlackstein]

Its an almost impossible hypothetical because as you say, Corallo lost his power whilst Persico maintained his.
Then of course you can always draw a line down the middle and join the endless Amuso debate....


Flip a coin.

[Rocco]

Well the whole reason behind Gotti killing Paul was because he truly believed Paul was gonna have him and Gene Killed. And rightfully so. They were running a large scale Heroin ring on the sneak. It wasn't just some small time dealing on the side. Gene and Carneglia were involved in large scale dealing kilo's on the wholesale. A big no no. The heat brought down on that was immense . The wire taps were an embarrassment to Gotti and Paul. It was the wire transcripts that would have gotten Gene and John GOtti killed. Neil apparently led them to believe they were gonna be killed. And I don't think Gotti would have been Boss if Paul went to jail for the 100yrs. I believe Gotti was Boss soley because he killed Paul ...plain and simple.
Had all this went down in the early 70s when their was less LE heat. Gotti, Gene , Carneglia would have been killed within 1yr after Killing Paul. I think the reason they were not killed right away was because the FBI was more on their game. I don't think Gigante ever lifted the contract on Gotti like has been written. Gigante was a smart guy and would have waited yrs to kill him given the chance. He didn't like him and Gotti was bad for business. They were polar opposites. Also think JR Gotti would have gotten killed eventually as well had he not been picked up by the FBI. LCN as a whole did not like John Gotti. He put a spot light on all 5 families and made them a priority for the FBI

[Pogo The Clown]

Castellano had every intention of running things from prison with Tommy Gambino as Acting Boss and Tommy Bilotti as UnderBoss.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Castellano had every intention of running things from prison with Tommy Gambino as Acting Boss and Tommy Bilotti as UnderBoss.

But whether that would've been accepted or turned into the Columbo wars, is endless speculation. IE Bilotti.

[Pogo The Clown]

Bilotti was already the UnderBoss. Don't think it would have led to war. The Colombo War was a totally different scenario.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Bilotti was already the UnderBoss. Don't think it would have led to war. The Colombo War was a totally different scenario.

And was widely hated.
Paul being on the street vs Paul being locked up changes Bilotti's acceptance/tolerance to a very large degree.

Bilotti continuing that position with Paul in the can is very debatable.

And the Columbo reference was to illustrate an attempt at a violent overthrow of an imprisoned boss. It's called an analogy.

[Pogo The Clown]

Honestly I think the whole Castellano-Bilotti being hated thing is way overblown by the media. If Gotti had not killed Castellano and avoiding being killed until Castellano wen't away he would have been demoted and it would have been business as usul under Tommy Gambino and Bilotti.

And the Columbo reference was to illustrate an attempt at a violent overthrow of an imprisoned boss. It's called an analogy.

But in that case there was no attempt at a violent overthrow of an imprisoned Boss. Orena overstepped his bounds as Acting Boss by demoting a bunch of Persico loyalists and refusing to step down when asked by the Boss. It was the Persico Faction that resorted to violence by trying to kill him and overhrow his new regime that kicked off he war.


Pogo