Nice job, everybody. That really is good solid work.
Governor, what application do you use to create your graphics? I used Adobe Illustrator & Photoshop to recreate the fictional Godfather Corleone Chart.
Interesting to look at this chart with the past in mind. In a lot of ways, the family might have eventually ended up looking this way even if Scarfo, etc. had never gone to prison.
Who do people think would have been in the next couple rounds of inductions after the last Scarfo ceremony? I think they would have waited a bit after 1986 since a lot of new blood had come in, but here's what I'm thinking:
- Ralph Pungitore (Leonetti said he was being considered for membership circa 1987)
- Joe Ciancaglini Jr. (close to the Pungitores and was made in the first Stanfa ceremony)
- John Ciancaglini (the oldest/most active of the Chang brothers)
- George Fresolone ("made" under Scarfo)
Having a hard time thinking of older guys. A lot of the people Stanfa brought in weren't on the radar yet and a number of them probably would never have been made under Scarfo.
Great chart, good work! But Steve Mazzone in this specific photo kind of looks like the main guy from the horror film "Shining" in one of the final scenes by his face expression
I wonder if some of Stanfa's guys who were under the Hunchback at one point may have already been made. Like Frank Martines, but neither Leonetti, nor Caramandi say he was in their books. I don't see Scarfo making any of those guys had he stayed on the street..I think Oliveri and the other guys made with Fresolone still would've been made too. And Scarfo wouldn't of taken any shit off of Licata or Bobby Cabert over Oliveri. Chickie Chang Jr def would have been made, I think Mike too, Scarfo may have even had him be the one to hit Merlino. If these guys were able to make money, Scarfo probably wouldve found use for most of them.
Dwalin2014 wrote:Great chart, good work! But Steve Mazzone in this specific photo kind of looks like the main guy from the horror film "Shining" in one of the final scenes by his face expression
OlBlueEyesClub wrote:I wonder if some of Stanfa's guys who were under the Hunchback at one point may have already been made. Like Frank Martines, but neither Leonetti, nor Caramandi say he was in their books. I don't see Scarfo making any of those guys had he stayed on the street..I think Oliveri and the other guys made with Fresolone still would've been made too. And Scarfo wouldn't of taken any shit off of Licata or Bobby Cabert over Oliveri. Chickie Chang Jr def would have been made, I think Mike too, Scarfo may have even had him be the one to hit Merlino. If these guys were able to make money, Scarfo probably wouldve found use for most of them.
Those Riccobene guys weren't made. Celeste Morello got close to a guy named Vincent Villone who was Sammy Tamburino's half-brother, and Villone claimed that he himself was made by Joe Ida and that Angelo Bruno had made Tamburino. He said there were other members nobody knows about. Pretty clear that he was taking Morello for a ride, though.
There may be one or two Philly members from the post-1950s who slipped under the radar, but even then I doubt it. There were made informants who knew the entire history of the family.
I don't think they would have made all of those North Jersey guys, at least not at once. They were trying to strengthen that crew because they were losing their grip on the family.
Dwalin2014 wrote:Was it Stanfa who made Martines? I think he was Stanfa's underboss during the war against Merlino, wasn't he?
Stanfa made him in May 1993. Not long after he was promoted to Acting UnderBoss.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Would like to find out more about late 1990 and basically all of 1991. I don't think any witnesses or wiretaps cover that period and we just know the bigger picture of what was going on but not the specifics.
Pogo, you're a lot better than me at keeping track of ceremonies and that type of thing... has it ever come out who all was made in 1991 and which ceremonies? Joe Chang Jr. would have been in the first ceremony and I'm pretty sure he was sponsored by Tony Pungitore Sr. Seems like Joe Massimino was made in '91, too, and maybe Al Pagano. Who sponsored these guys, though?
Felix Bocchino as far as we know was just a soldier serving as a sort of messenger/middle management guy for Stanfa during that time but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he had some kind of position.
Chucky wrote:CC, that guy you have photoed as James Ranieri is Anthony Girlardi
Do we have one of Ranieri and show Girlardi be on there?
B. wrote:Interesting to look at this chart with the past in mind. In a lot of ways, the family might have eventually ended up looking this way even if Scarfo, etc. had never gone to prison.
Absolutely. For what it's worth, Philly has held onto 'their' territory in Philly, Chester, S. Jersey, Newark just in watered down form. Regardless of whether or not there are any crew continuities, Staino was "over" the same area that the Scafidis and then Leonetti once had, Scoops has Caponigro's old crew which was once described as a satellite crew.
B. wrote:Pogo, you're a lot better than me at keeping track of ceremonies and that type of thing... has it ever come out who all was made in 1991 and which ceremonies? Joe Chang Jr. would have been in the first ceremony and I'm pretty sure he was sponsored by Tony Pungitore Sr. Seems like Joe Massimino was made in '91, too, and maybe Al Pagano. Who sponsored these guys, though?
The only official info I've seen for 1991 ceremonies is Joey Chang being made in November of that year. Massimino was made in 1992. Pagano was made in September 1993. The info on Joey Chang's and Pagano's ceremony is in The Goodfella Tapes. Don't know who sponsored them. Was Stanfa even really using the whole sponsor thing considering some of the people he was making? Doesn't seem like he was using it in the traditional sense for everyone.
Pogo
Last edited by Pogo The Clown on Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
B. wrote:Interesting to look at this chart with the past in mind. In a lot of ways, the family might have eventually ended up looking this way even if Scarfo, etc. had never gone to prison.
Absolutely. For what it's worth, Philly has held onto 'their' territory in Philly, Chester, S. Jersey, Newark just in watered down form. Regardless of whether or not there are any crew continuities, Staino was "over" the same area that the Scafidis and then Leonetti once had, Scoops has Caponigro's old crew which was once described as a satellite crew.
Not so sure about the Chester bit. Santo Idone was the captain of Chester and pretty much all of their other Pennsylvania interests outside of Philly, but after he went down I don't know of them holding onto much activity there. He was also the last real link to the old Calabrese faction.
Kind of interesting how the Newark crew which was originally just part of the Trenton decina has outlived that crew and so much else in the Philly area.
B. wrote:Pogo, you're a lot better than me at keeping track of ceremonies and that type of thing... has it ever come out who all was made in 1991 and which ceremonies? Joe Chang Jr. would have been in the first ceremony and I'm pretty sure he was sponsored by Tony Pungitore Sr. Seems like Joe Massimino was made in '91, too, and maybe Al Pagano. Who sponsored these guys, though?
The only official info I've seen for 1991 ceremonies is Joey Chang being made in November of that year. Massimino was made in 1992. Pagano was made in September 1993. The info on Joey Chang's and Pagano's ceremony is in The Goodfella Tapes. Don't know who sponsored them. Was Stanfa even really using the whol sposor thing considering some of the people he was making? Doesn't seem like he was using it in the traditional sense or everyone.
Pogo
I didn't realize it was as late as November.
You might be right about the sponsors, not sure. For as much as he was hyped in the media as an old school Sicilian boss, he really let the rules fly out the window.
Chester is in Delaware County where Borgesi had people under him. I'm not saying there is any direct continuity just like there isn't any between Scafidi and Staino. But certain areas continue to have diminished activity.
Stanfa's Sicilianismo was, from what I can tell, a literary narration on GA's part to contrast him with Merlino. Guy was in the US for 20+ years and those alleged "Sicilian links" never came to fruition after it was speculated that Sicilians would play a larger part. That never happened. Stanfa's zips were other Italian expatriates (Calabrian) in the Philly area who wanted to link up. Stanfa's other choices in Previte (ex cop) and Veasey (not Ital on his father's side) as well as Martines and Pagano would not be considered ideal choices. I include the two latter because Stanfa barely knew them and they were elevated instantly. He was either foolish or the pickings were very slim.
