Sciascia and Montagna

[TommyGambino]

Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?

[Rocco]

Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?

Sounds like Cicale is playing up Basciano's rep in order to enhance his own since he was Basciano's go-to guy. Nothing Shocking there.

[toto]

Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?

Because they didn't stop answering. Anybody who understands Cosa Nostra never believed this kind of story that they decided not to answer.

[Angelo Santino]

Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?

Because they didn't stop answering. Anybody who understands Cosa Nostra never believed this kind of story that they decided not to answer.

Agreed with Toto. The Sixth Family was a great book with alot of factual info. But the narrative was misleading. The Rizzuto's were not some Godfather-esque family "that could call the world their territory while the New York Mobs battled over streets." I happen to believe Lee LaMothe did tremendous research and traveled across the Atlantic to build his case. But he had no "insiders/informants" who could verify what was viewed by mafia research academics outside of the Mafia bubble.

Canadian laws are what USA laws were in the early 19th century. They are simply not equipped legally to combat international mafia or terrorist organizations. Even Caso from the old boards got refugee status from claiming Lee Salerno supplied Al Queada with the 93 WTC attacks and the FBI was forcing her to talk so she absconded. (What really happened is that Lee got all his alimony payments back for 11 months when they could not locate her.

Being said, Canadian law ignorance/lack of legal proceedings prevent them from combatting Italian Mafias so what you see is Mafia members being more bold and daring. Canada doesn't have an FBI equivalent that's as intruding on them. They are living the life of a mobster faced with circa-1930's law enforcement. That will change but for now this is the environment. In fact I would argue that Canada- in terms of lawful scrutiny- is like 1980's Miami if you're connected to the Italian Mafias. Despite a great number of Italians in Canada there hasn't ever been a recent 'ndrina or 'Locale in America for two reasons: law enforcement and Italian demographics. But if for some reason a handful of Calabrians emigrated to the USA in great numbers, there would be some 'ndrangheta presence in stronger force than lose references/appearances in NY and Miami.

[TommyGambino]

Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?

Because they didn't stop answering. Anybody who understands Cosa Nostra never believed this kind of story that they decided not to answer.

So they still answer today?

[Lupara]

Being said, Canadian law ignorance/lack of legal proceedings prevent them from combatting Italian Mafias so what you see is Mafia members being more bold and daring. Canada doesn't have an FBI equivalent that's as intruding on them. They are living the life of a mobster faced with circa-1930's law enforcement. That will change but for now this is the environment. In fact I would argue that Canada- in terms of lawful scrutiny- is like 1980's Miami if you're connected to the Italian Mafias. Despite a great number of Italians in Canada there hasn't ever been a recent 'ndrina or 'Locale in America for two reasons: law enforcement and Italian demographics. But if for some reason a handful of Calabrians emigrated to the USA in great numbers, there would be some 'ndrangheta presence in stronger force than lose references/appearances in NY and Miami.

What you say is true and all, but the Montreal Mafia has been hit hard by law enforcement in recent years. Operation Colisee destabilized them significantly. Then were the Charbonneau hearings that exposed their involvement in the construction business. And other busts dismantled entire cells and put key people in jail, including the new leaders who're now faced with tough charges. The RCMP has shown that they can act with the speed of light and they have been pretty successful against the Mafia in the last decade. Montreal mafiosi are no longer untouchable. I'd say that the Mafia up there is now in a state comparable to the New York Mafia of the 1990s.

[Lupara]

Why would Rizzuto kick up 100k to Basciano? I thought they stopped answering to NY not long after Sciasca got hit?

Because they didn't stop answering. Anybody who understands Cosa Nostra never believed this kind of story that they decided not to answer.

So they still answer today?

Doesn't seem like it, but it wouldn't suprise me either. It also needs to be said that from the members of the Sciascia period there are only a handful left. However I imagine that Stefano and Leonardo have been made in recent years.

[B.]

I believe one of the main sources behind the belief that Montreal "broke off" was Sal Vitale -- and not because Vitale ever said that, but because he said that he himself was unaware of any arrangements. Sal Vitale had apparently been all but shelved and held only the title of underboss, so it seems likely he was left out of the loop on whatever tribute may have been coming in.

I'd like to keep this topic focused on the years before Vito Rizzuto went to prison since we don't have much info on what, if any, relationship existed between the Bonanno Montreal crew and their NYC connections after he went away, and the whole Montreal War is a rabbit hole. What is starting to become clear is that Sal Montagna was familiar with the Montreal crew and "technically" even a part of the same crew, being one of Sciascia's few NYC soldiers/associates. It's very possible that prior to his murder, Sciascia, who was unable to enter Canada, used Montagna as a liaison to Canada given his own ties there. According to Cicale, Montagna did exactly that on behalf of the Bonanno family after Sciascia's death when he collected the tribute from the reluctant Vito. This is pretty big, because it would mean that Montagna didn't simply confront Nick Rizzuto once he got to Montreal and tell him to step aside, but he had previously gone there and created tension with Vito himself. And at that time at least, he had the backing of the Bonanno family leadership.

Has Cicale given any information, either through testimony or in public statements, that has been proven false? He definitely talks himself up and has it out for certain people, but that is a common trait with almost all witnesses. I haven't seen/heard anything that would completely ruin his credibility. Maybe someone has something, but until then, I will go ahead and take his word on some of this stuff going on in the late 90s to mid-2000s as he was close to one of the family's top rising stars during that period and became at least an acting capo himself

Thanks a ton to HK and the Greek for tracking down that info on Tony Mancuso. Before this whole Sisca and Squitieri angle got mentioned, I had previously heard somewhere (can't remember where) that Tony Nose Mancuso was associated with the Gambinos. Seems possible that he was close to them like Cicale says. Tony Mancuso's murder also might explain why Mike Mancuso ended up with a different family.

[B.]

He specifically says that Basciano referred to him as an acting capo to Tartaglione.

The only reference to his making ceremony is that he was made with a Bronx-based soldier called Little Patty who had done 18 years in prison. This has to be Pasquale Maiorino who had been convicted of murdering a homosexual during a robbery in the early 1980s. His father is Salvatore Maiorino. Little Patty is described as being in the DeFilippo/Mancuso/Montagna crew.

Thanks. If true then Cicale must have been one of those Acting Capos while the Official Capo is still funtional and on the street that we have been seeing more and more of recently.


Pogo

The only way to know for sure would be to get a copy of Tartaglione's tape transcripts. Cicale says this was mentioned on tape and that Basciano later apologized for mentioning it to Tartaglione, who they already suspected may be cooperating. Cicale learned about it when his lawyer obtained the transcripts.

I think it's possible that Cicale was acting for Basciano just to create a buffer or free him up so that he could focus on higher level things. As Cantarella supposedly said (according to this book at least... not sure if it's mentioned elsewhere), Massino had already tapped Basciano for a leadership spot and there was also a loosely defined panel that Basciano was on before he became acting boss if I remember right. Basciano was on the panel and then made himself acting boss later on, which Massino questioned him about. Cicale could have been acting while Basciano was on the panel, but I have a hard time following the timelines with this stuff. Kind of reminds me of the discussion about Graziano being consigliere and Cantarella acting underboss, except throw in the chaos of guys flipping and getting thrown in jail... hard to really keep track of all the changes/dynamics going on.

[B.]

Cicale really lays into Mancuso, by the way. He talks about what a pussy Mancuso is for being friendly to his father's friends Sisca and Squitieri even though they didn't stand up for his father the night he was killed. I definitely see it from a different angle from Cicale... Mancuso, as a member of the Bonannos, would be asking for his own death if he insulted or tried to attack Gambino members over ancient history. It's also not clear if Sisca or Squitieri could have even done anything to retaliate against Tony Mancuso's murderer (assuming it was even them with him that night, but I'll trust Cicale's word on it). A guy with a gun came into a club late at night and killed Mancuso over what appears to have been a personal beef, that's all we know for sure.

He also talks about Mancuso dipping out on the Sciascia murder, which I mentioned.

Then later, he talks about Mancuso's ineffectiveness as acting boss. Apparently Cicale was transmitting messages from Basciano and therefore Massino to Mancuso so that he could hand out the orders. Each time Cicale would give him a message, Mancuso would say he wouldn't carry out the order until Cicale told him how he was receiving messages from the bosses. This went on until Cicale apparently began to issue the orders himself. For example, Mancuso refused to tell Louis DeCicco that he was being promoted to official capo from acting until Cicale gave him more info, so Cicale promoted DeCicco himself.

[B.]

Multiple posts in a row but ah well...

Anyone know which crew Baldo Amato was officially with before he went away for the final time? He was with Attanasio after Bonventre, but not sure if he stayed on with Faraci after that or where the crew even went from him.

When Sciascia was asked to bring Montreal shooters down for the Perrino hit and couldn't get them to come down, he volunteered Baldo Amato which was a violation of protocol because Amato was still with the Attanasio crew at the time.

There is an article from the time of Sciascia's death that cites information from investigators claiming that Sciascia's crew is based in Montreal and that he has one soldier based in NYC -- Baldo Amato. Not sure how reliable that is, though, and it may have just come through his close friendship to Sciascia.

Baldo, as we well know, was extremely upset about the Sciascia murder and wept in front of Sal Vitale, who pleaded ignorance. In contrast, Cicale says that Montagna just rolled with it.

[Pogo The Clown]

Basciano was on the panel and then made himself acting boss later on, which Massino questioned him about.

I have to wonder about this. According to one of the lawyers who later flipped (forgot his name) Massino sent a message through him to Basciano that he (Massino) was promoting him to Acting Boss about 2 weeks after Urso and that whole bunch were indicted. If my memory is correct Basciano was surprised that he was being promoted.


Pogo

[B.]

Basciano was on the panel and then made himself acting boss later on, which Massino questioned him about.

I have to wonder about this. According to one of the lawyers who later flipped (forgot his name) Massino sent a message through him to Basciano that he (Massino) was promoting him to Acting Boss about 2 weeks after Urso and that whole bunch were indicted. If my memory is correct Basciano was surprised that he was being promoted.


Pogo

I may have it wrong. None of this comes from Cicale's little book. I am thinking back to some of the excerpts from Massino's tapes that got released and I feel like there was something about how Massino had arranged for a panel (including Basciano) and Basciano had taken it upon himself to become either the leader of the panel or the acting boss, which Massino questioned and ultimately accepted. Maybe someone remembers seeing that, too.

[LcnBios]

Anyone know which crew Baldo Amato was officially with before he went away for the final time? He was with Attanasio after Bonventre, but not sure if he stayed on with Faraci after that or where the crew even went from him.

Amato was under Louis Attanasio, this crew officially went to Peter Calabrese who had Vincent Badalamenti as his acting by 2002.

About Cicale's rank, he was promoted to Acting Capodecina of the Basciano crew in December 2003. Urso approved the promotion and they had a meeting inside a restaurant on 1st Ave to announce it. Basciano confirmed the rank during one of the tape recorded meetings with Tartaglione that same month, and mentions Cicale having just served eleven years etc.

[B.]

Anyone know which crew Baldo Amato was officially with before he went away for the final time? He was with Attanasio after Bonventre, but not sure if he stayed on with Faraci after that or where the crew even went from him.

Amato was under Louis Attanasio, this crew officially went to Peter Calabrese who had Vincent Badalamenti as his acting by 2002.

About Cicale's rank, he was promoted to Acting Capodecina of the Basciano crew in December 2003. Urso approved the promotion and they had a meeting inside a restaurant on 1st Ave to announce it. Basciano confirmed the rank during one of the tape recorded meetings with Tartaglione that same month, and mentions Cicale having just served eleven years etc.

Thanks, man. That fills in the gaps and confirms some things.

Did Cicale get the spot because Basciano was promoted or was he just helping him run that big crew?